Mass Effect universe discussion thread

[Col.Foley]

God sometimes I hate reading through this thread. Oh well I will still see eventually about control, synthesis, and destroy.

BUt that was totally AWESOME. Wow That was just cool. A huge improvement over the original ending and it just completed everything IMO. Perfect? No. But a fitting end to a great saga now.

Though yes I am unsure what the future of Bioware will bring. Doubt I will pre order anything again but I also do not know what else they have planned in regards to ME, Original Content, Dragon Age, or anything else. But this ending showed that with a little time and a little more effort they could've really made the game shine, as such its just a really great game.

[gotthammer]

*snip*

Agreed on all points.

[Teddybrown]

Haven't played it yet...honestly I got home and found that I just could not be bothered. I'll do it at some point, for stubborn refusal to give an inch if nothing else. I did just watch the 'destroy' ending on Kotaku though, a side-by-side comparison of the original ending vs. how it plays now with the new DLC.


The positive: it is an improvement, I can't deny that. The gargantuan plot holes of the mystery Normandy flight, the Relays not/destroying the universe was fixed up, and it did give more closure as they said it would.

The negative: the most gaping plot hole of them all (the starchild) is still there. And honestly, a lot of the stuff that I thought was actually improved also came across as really lazy and completely 'phoned-in' (particularly the section that's just a freaking slideshow with a voiceover).


In general...yes, it's an improvement. But at the same time, I find myself looking at it and thinking that this is the ending I should've been disappointed with the first time around. Worse, I find myself scoffing that it took four months to create 5 minutes of material that seemed like it may well have been something they'd been working on but cut so they could put the game out the door.

Props for effort. I guess. But I doubt if I'll be pre-ordering (or even buying at full price) another Bioware game in the near future.

I agree with that point Digi, that was my only critism of the ending

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DDBwEMAyaU

Jump to about the 5:00 mark.

Ah right, hadnt seen that cutscene yet, glad that was added.

[Teddybrown]

Looks like people have found hints on a new DLC.
Slightly spoilery if the DLC does come around.
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1453657...athan_dlc.html

[DigiFluid]

I never really had a problem concerning the starchild in the first place, since I thought it was fairly obvious who and what he was.

Except for that he was an 11th hour victim that didn't fit in with the mythology in the slightest, whose reasoning was completely illogical, and whose very existence made the plot of the first game make no sense whatsoever?

A lot of conversation was added with the starchild, explaining his background, motivation, etc.

Such as? I was thinking last night, that my final save was NOT before the Cerberus base, it was either on Earth or the Citadel. So in order to do as Bioware suggested (start from before Cerberus base), I'd have to go back and replay the entire game (which I find myself just not interested in doing). What did they expand on in the dialogue with him/it?

[Teddybrown]

Such as? I was thinking last night, that my final save was NOT before the Cerberus base, it was either on Earth or the Citadel. So in order to do as Bioware suggested (start from before Cerberus base), I'd have to go back and replay the entire game (which I find myself just not interested in doing). What did they expand on in the dialogue with him/it?

When you finish the game, you find yourself back on the Normandy, and you can restart the Cerberus base mission from there.
Doesnt that bring you to the extended cut ending after you download it?

[DigiFluid]

Oh does it? Maybe I won't be forced to (not) replay the whole game then...

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Props for effort. I guess. But I doubt if I'll be pre-ordering (or even buying at full price) another Bioware game in the near future.

Sorry but that seems a pretty silly stance to take imo. Not that I'm saying the EC was great (it wasn't, turned a poor ending into a somewhat average ending) or that you should blindly buy all games with Bioware on the front. In fact I'd argue the opposite, surely each game should be based on its own merits, look at the games that look appealing from the previews and demo's and pre order those. I don't blindly pre order games based on names, not even if it's Valve or Blizzard or Bohemia Interactive, some of my favourite developers. I check each game to see if it appeals to me. Yes I buy most of the stuff from the aforementioned developers, but I still look at each game to see if it really appeals to me and looks good. Sometimes if the game in question looks iffy or doesn't appeal to me I don't preorder their stuff.

And it works for developers with patchy records as well, like Bioware. Instead of deciding, that's it, no more Bioware, wouldn't it make more sense to see what they are doing next before condemning them? Bioware are good at responding to criticism about their games, though in this case there was only going to be so much they could do with 10 minutes at the end.

Maybe Dragon Age 3 will be great, maybe it will be terrible, the news that the want to be similar to Skyrim actually doesn't sound very good, since Bioware have never been good at that style of gameplay, but it would be nice to see something solid before we all jump on the "Bioware is ruined" bandwagon.

[AtlantisRules!!!]

Except for that he was an 11th hour victim that didn't fit in with the mythology in the slightest, whose reasoning was completely illogical, and whose very existence made the plot of the first game make no sense whatsoever?

Such as? I was thinking last night, that my final save was NOT before the Cerberus base, it was either on Earth or the Citadel. So in order to do as Bioware suggested (start from before Cerberus base), I'd have to go back and replay the entire game (which I find myself just not interested in doing). What did they expand on in the dialogue with him/it?

But you should have further back saves, shouldn't you? My last save wasn't before Cerberus, but my save 3 or 4 back was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmcIJjPJyB8

First 11:30-ish minutes of this is the full conversation with the Starchild.

[DigiFluid]

Sorry but that seems a pretty silly stance to take imo.

Not in the least. Bioware has had a strong track record. Key word: had.

But their recent history is rather less satisfying. Dragon Age II, which I enjoyed, was still a letdown after the first one. SWTOR, which I also enjoy, is taking months to implement features that should have been in the game at launch. ME3 was a great game up until...a final 10 minutes so bad that it put me off the franchise altogether. Considering that these are currently their only three active IPs, it's hardly a stretch to single out the company and say 'hey, maybe I won't be quite so quick to buy your stuff anymore.

I'm not calling them "ruined." But their recent history has been rather underwhelming. And for me at least, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to continue to reward poor performance just because their previous performance was great.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Not in the least. Bioware has had a strong track record. Key word: had.

But their recent history is rather less satisfying. Dragon Age II, which I enjoyed, was still a letdown after the first one. SWTOR, which I also enjoy, is taking months to implement features that should have been in the game at launch. ME3 was a great game up until...a final 10 minutes so bad that it put me off the franchise altogether. Considering that these are currently their only three active IPs, it's hardly a stretch to single out the company and say 'hey, maybe I won't be quite so quick to buy your stuff anymore.

I'm not calling them "ruined." But their recent history has been rather underwhelming. And for me at least, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to continue to reward poor performance just because their previous performance was great.

But as I said, I find your entire stance silly, because you seem to assign worth to the developers name based on their past games, rather than actually assess what they're selling you now. All companies, even one like Valve, have games they fail to meet the mark and each game should be assessed on its own merits, rather than the merits of previous games, which is what you're doing.

Game developers change hands, change leadership, try different things, you act as if Bioware was a person, it's not, it's a company that can and will do very different things in very different styles depending on who's in charge. This is especially worth bearing in mind since Bioware are part of EA, and EA are overall a badly run company, who despite the common image of them being an evil corporate overlord, it was would be closer to say that most of EA's poorer decisions are just caused by chronic mismanagement. The left hand doesn't know what the right foot is doing and so on. Quite often you will find an EA exec make a statement that will be then directly contradicted by the actions of another part of the company. In such an environment it's no surprise that many of their developers have a patchy record, but they still produce some decent games. However you have to look at each game individually, rather than at Bioware's overall track record, because with EA and its constantly shifting management, someone who may be responsible for the direction for one game may have been moved on by the next.

In this situation looking at the developers track record actually becomes rather pointless, because their isn't any continuity in the company. While certain writers and game designers will remain, the EA execs who will be the driving force and real decisions makers, change positions every 5 minutes. The next Bioware game could be fantastic, or it could be a steaming turd, and it will all depend on which EA Exec happens to be resposible for overseeing Bioware at the time.

[LoneStar1836]

Spoiler:

Working WITH the Reapers to rebuild, improve. Getting access to the knowledge of every species the Reapers have exterminated. Not to mention EDI is alive.

And best of all, Shepard beyond a shadow of a doubt is dead.

The part that makes this ending great is that it came down to the ultimate sacrifice. Shepard had to die. She survives Destroy (much to my chagrin I was talking at the computer saying "don't let her live, don't let her live!"). Shepard has been about sacrifice throughout the game, talkign about how much has been sacrificed, how much will need to be sacrificed still, and in the end, she sacrificed herself.

She was willing to go that far. Ending her own life, to stop the Reapers. Not only that, but to improve the lives of every person in the galaxy. To stop the Starchild's fears from becoming reality, the end of organic life due to Synthetic Domination.

Now granted, much the same could be said about the Control option. And to that I respond... "Well I think EDI's speech was better. So neh!"

"We are Borg...*cough* I mean Reapers, you will be assimilated." I didn't just fight/do all that to join the Collective. Which was pretty much the Reaper end game. It may seem all utopian, but then I've never really been a fan of utopian visions of life.

I was fighting for the ability to retain your individual freedom of choice. With Synthesis, you basically force everyone to become some kind of hybrid. Control is the best choice with the best outcome that allows this, but like I said, I wanted my Shepard to survive. And the Reapers to die....


Though honestly I don't see how any of those choices stops once and for all what Starchild was supposedly trying to prevent. In any of those three realities, Synthetics can be reproduced and supposedly rebel against their creators. Whatever. I still enjoy the series and the characters and the story (for the most part).

The negative: the most gaping plot hole of them all (the starchild) is still there. And honestly, a lot of the stuff that I thought was actually improved also came across as really lazy and completely 'phoned-in' (particularly the section that's just a freaking slideshow with a voiceover).


In general...yes, it's an improvement. But at the same time, I find myself looking at it and thinking that this is the ending I should've been disappointed with the first time around. Worse, I find myself scoffing that it took four months to create 5 minutes of material that seemed like it may well have been something they'd been working on but cut so they could put the game out the door.

I do find the slideshow ending somewhat disappointing (would have preferred more animation), but then I wasn't really expecting a whole lot.

Props for effort. I guess. But I doubt if I'll be pre-ordering (or even buying at full price) another Bioware game in the near future.

I save my self the pain in the wallet and never pre-order or pay full price for any game. I'm cheap that way. That's why I haven't played ME3 yet. I've seen it for $30US several times but am holding out for less considering I'll have to pay $10 for Ashes anyway.

[AtlantisRules!!!]

"We are Borg...*cough* I mean Reapers, you will be assimilated." I didn't just fight/do all that to join the Collective. Which was pretty much the Reaper end game. It may seem all utopian, but then I've never really been a fan of utopian visions of life.

I was fighting for the ability to retain your individual freedom of choice. With Synthesis, you basically force everyone to become some kind of hybrid. Control is the best choice with the best outcome that allows this, but like I said, I wanted my Shepard to survive. And the Reapers to die....

Though honestly I don't see how any of those choices stops once and for all what Starchild was supposedly trying to prevent. In any of those three realities, Synthetics can be reproduced and supposedly rebel against their creators. Whatever. I still enjoy the series and the characters and the story (for the most part).

I think the Starchild was correct in (most) of his logic. There will be conflict, and Synthesis will be the way to solve it permanently. However, looking at it all from Shep's Point of View, she would have no way of knowing that and thus, to be in-character, Shep would probably never choose Synthesis

And I agree, watching the Reapers explode felt GOOD! But while it was happening I knew that both EDI and the Geth were exploding and that made it feel less good

[DigiFluid]

But as I said, I find your entire stance silly, because you seem to assign worth to the developers name based on their past games, rather than actually assess what they're selling you now.

And that's nonsense. They're a label, who are specifically trying to market their products (which, at this point, are exclusively sequels) based on the quality of past products. They can't have it both ways; if they want me to keep buying their products based on how good the previous title in the series was, the previous title in the series damn well better have been good, or you've got no marketing platform. Ergo, I'm not going to be plunking down my cash as quickly.

This is pretty much marketing and brand value 101, I'm not sure what the problem is

[Teddybrown]

How hard is ME3 on insanity as Im going to attempt it next playthrough?
Ive got all weapons maxed out in regards to upgrades and currently working on getting all maxed mods.