Originally posted by Oranos
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Originally posted by Oranos View PostI think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:
Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.
Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
Just my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive""A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life
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Originally posted by DigiFluid View PostI think that's a perfect example of the great moral conundrums that BioWare can write. If it were me (IRL), I don't think I could handle letting the innocents die. Balak is just one of many Batarian terrorists, he goes down and another will just take his place and innocent lives would have been lost for nothing.
However, the Renegade way--though you wouldn't know this till after--allows you to capture and interrogate. You could ultimately end up saving even more lives with what Balak knows.
Either way, not an easy decision. And you can justify it either way.
But my Shepard is a Colonist (about an even mix of Renegade and Paragon). Which pretty much made my decision easy.
Originally posted by DigiFluidJust my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive"
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Originally posted by Oranos View PostWhy does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.
I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:
Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.
Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
There are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade. Though occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.Last edited by The Mighty 6 platoon; 20 February 2010, 04:18 AM.
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Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostI'd agree renegade actions aren't bad, its more the way I see it paragon are "heroic selfless actions" while renegade are often more pragmatic "ends justify the means" actions. I think Mass Effect 2 got really good at this, for instance the mechanic working on the gunship in Omega is a perfect example, yes it's not very heroic to stab the guy in the back with an electro prod thingie, but in the end it's extremely helpful when you have a gunship bearing down on your position that it hasn't been repaired fully.
Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoonThere are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade.
My "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.
I would have liked a more remorseful way to off the queen, however. The "I'm sorry, I just can't risk letting you go free," option would have been nice to see. Even if it was a neutral option instead.
Originally posted by The Might 6 platoonThough occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.
But on that note, the Paragons seem to have gone a little darker in this game. So maybe a more "Renegade" choice is apt.
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I think the morality system is a standout point of the Mass Effect games, not only as a videogame device but also just as good sci-fi. Good science fiction stories should make us ask questions, is it better to spare our enemies by brainwashing them or do we give them the dignity of dying with their free will intact. That is what I feel makes the Mass Effect games not just excellent games bu7t also great sci-fi stories.
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I beat Mass Effect 2 with one of my Paragon characters and playing through on Renegade currently. Also by a strange coincidence my Renegade Shepard looks like Wesker from Resident Evil (I played through Mass Effect 1 before playing any Resident Evil games), and now looks like him even more with the glowing red eyes. I usually prefer to play as Paragon, but love some of the Renegade dialog:
I do like how in this game, how it's not like the first where everything was organic vs. synthetic with all A.I.'s and machines being evil. Mass Effect 2 has two ally machine characters, EDI and Legion, not only that, Shepard is now a Cyborg. The Illusive Man is an awesome character, some of the best voice acting ever in a video game.
So what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:
Spoiler:
For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.
In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.
Originally posted by Replicator Todd View PostThere is a comic series?! *goes to Amazon*
Originally posted by Oranos View PostMy "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.
Spoiler:
If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.
Oh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:
Last edited by Daedalus-304; 20 February 2010, 11:31 PM.sigpic
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You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it
Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complainingLast edited by The Mighty 6 platoon; 21 February 2010, 03:35 AM.
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Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostSo what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:
Spoiler:
For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.
In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.
Ditto on the Geth. Same on the base. But I really think the latter decision is going to come back to bite me in the @$$. I don't know why, just a hunch.
Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostSpoilers for Mass Effect 2:
Spoiler:
If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.
There are some hints in the first conversation with her. But again, it comes down to trust. And whether you can risk it. The way I play my Shepard, he can't.
Besides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:
Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!
Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostOh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:
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Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostYou know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it
Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining
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Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostYou know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it
Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining
Originally posted by Oranos View PostBesides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:
Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!
For the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.sigpic
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Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostI actually didn't even recognize it was her until I saw her name in the credits, I didn't even hear she was going to be in the game before.
Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostYes, that is a great line.
Turian Councilor: I believe you humans have a saying. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Shepard: We humans have another saying. Go to hell.
And telling the Council, in the second game, to 'screw themselves' when they offer you your Spectre status back is so worth it.
Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostFor the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.
To be fair, you Paragons have already had some negative outcomes. You let bad guys go free. Elnora, for example.
Found these. They're pretty funny. Check them out:
http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/a...eved-154121898
http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/a...nute-154834447
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Originally posted by Replicator Todd View PostIndeed, Claudia has exploded into video games, she did an excellent job on Uncharted 2 from what I heard.
Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View PostI prefer playing on Paragon, it's much better helping people out rather than being a jerk, I only played Renegade in the first one to get an achievement. I'm also surprised no one called you out over that too, I was expected him to say slightly different things in each store, rather than the same line over and over again. Speaking of Citadel stores, anyone find the game salesman hilarious?
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Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostShe really is in a lot of a list titles recnetly, form Crysis, to Uncharted 2, to the Bioware games. I hope maybe she convinces some more Stargate talent to do voices for the games, I mean Mass Effect 2 had scifi talent by the truckload doing the voicies and it would be cool if they added some more stargate Alumini to Mass Effect 3.
Aside from her, only Adam Baldwin has been on SG, right (for ME2, that is)? Also, other than Admiral Xen, who else did she voice (I think it's already certain that she did the voice for the Rachni-Asari, but what about the Asari bartender?)?
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on a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...
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Originally posted by gotthammer View Poston a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...
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