Prince Nuada/Luke Goss Appreciation &Thunk Thread

[LiquidSky]

thanks for the info LS, i'll have to check youtube now and again, that's my favourite nuada vid

Indeed



Wether Mad or Desperate Prince Nuada became his desperation may have been the final key that turned to madness. I still feel compassion and sympathy for him.. How maddening it must be to see your world being destroyed and your people being slowly pushed farther down into the abyss. and, there is nothing you can do but turn to the worst possible thing. Poor Prince Nuada what was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.

LS

[Sparrow_hawk]

I think Luke knows the different between reality and fantasy



Steshette who put out the Mordred's Lullaby will be putting it back on You Tube she is going for a higher quality replacement however you can view it on her myspace page. myspace.com/steshette. I Have haven't been to her web page.

LS

LS, do you need to have a myspace account to visit someone's page? I really love that video and the song.

[dasNdanger]

Indeed



Wether Mad or Desperate Prince Nuada became his desperation may have been the final key that turned to madness. I still feel compassion and sympathy for him.. How maddening it must be to see your world being destroyed and your people being slowly pushed farther down into the abyss. and, there is nothing you can do but turn to the worst possible thing. Poor Prince Nuada what was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.

LS

I posted this in defense of Nuada on a comic book forum - seems some guys (sheesh) didn't get the character, especially in relation to his sacrifice of the forest god if he's supposed to be such an 'environmentalist'. I responded:

From comments that both del Toro and the actor have made, plus some of the dialogue, and discussions I've had with other viewers...the basic conclusion I get is this (which I got the first time I watched the movie, but has since been reinforced by what I mentioned above):

Nuada is mad. This is brought out when his father declares him mad, and he replies, "Perhaps I am. Perhaps they made me so." That establishes the character's mental state, and thus explains the rest of his actions in the film.

He's so damaged by man's destruction of his world he's become totally unhinged, not thinking straight and making decisions that seem to contradict his goal. Basically, he's gone postal. He is the last one who cares - the rest have grown complacent, indifferent. They have accepted their fate. But he can't - he won't - and now his passion for what he believes in has turned into madness. He kills his father, then says that he's always loved him. He is a conflicted character - wanting something good (save the planet), but hurting the very ones he claims to be fighting for - his father, his sister...his kind.

You see the breaking point in the character. Even though he's mad, he's still in basic control, up to the point of Mr. Wink's death. Here he starts acting more and more irrationally, first by releasing the forest god, then by confronting his sister in the library, and displaying every emotion imaginable...totally off his nut there. He loves her in all the wrong ways, and shows it.

Still, through it all, he is right in his own way, just not right in the way he's going about things. Del Toro, who has defended the character as - perhaps - truly justified, also called him an 'incestuous little ******* prince'. The conflict is definitely intended - so that he DOES look like an irrational fool, while at the same time he could very well be right.

Also, del Toro pointed out that Nuada, as a creature of the earth, had in his arsenal natural things...the tooth faries, the elemental, the face-sucky thing...it was meant to show what part of the world he controlled, and how much he was willing to sacrifice for 'the greater good'.

das

AND

I think where you really see this is when he's dying, and stumbles...and Hellboy catches him. At that moment you realize that if Hellboy can show compassion for the guy, there is a reason for such compassion. Remember how Nuada asked his father when did he become the humans' pet? I think that's what Nuada was basically trying to get Hellboy to see - that he was becoming the humans' 'pet' - even Liz made a point of this, 'must everyone like you?'. Just like a pet tries to win the affections of its master, Hellboy was trying to win the affections of the humans, and it's not always possible. You have to be true to yourself - and no matter how misguided Nuada was, he WAS true to himself and to what he believed in. In the end, Hellboy realizes the sacrifices both Nuala and Nuada made - and why - and is left to question his own priorities.

I think, if there is ever a third movie, this movie has set Hellboy up to face his own demons, as it were.

das

One of th guys responded, "Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I like that a lot. Makes him all the more tragic actually, and works much better."

That made me happy, that I was able to at least get one guy to understand the character. Thing is, a LOT of guys do NOT understand the character. They didn't understand that he was mad, even though that is established in the beginning. They didn't see the insanity because he was played sympathetically, and NOT in-your-face insane like Ledger's Joker. Many guys just need it all spelled out for them, while I think most women (and some guys) grasp the nuances.

das

[LiquidSky]

LS, do you need to have a myspace account to visit someone's page? I really love that video and the song.

I'm not sure if you need a myspace account I haven't visited her page If myspace is like facebook you would need an account. I don't have an account with both those sites.

I posted this in defense of Nuada on a comic book forum - seems some guys (sheesh) didn't get the character, especially in relation to his sacrifice of the forest god if he's supposed to be such an 'environmentalist'. I responded:




One of th guys responded, "Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I like that a lot. Makes him all the more tragic actually, and works much better."

That made me happy, that I was able to at least get one guy to understand the character. Thing is, a LOT of guys do NOT understand the character. They didn't understand that he was mad, even though that is established in the beginning. They didn't see the insanity because he was played sympathetically, and NOT in-your-face insane like Ledger's Joker. Many guys just need it all spelled out for them, while I think most women (and some guys) grasp the nuances.

das

Maybe some guys or (gals) can only grasp the one dimensional characters and not pick up on the subties and nuances of these characters. You don't have to put too much thought into these characters. I like the way Del Toro directed Nuada's characters he gave him empathy.

LS

[dragongirl]

Hello I only finally got to see the movie for the first time a couple days ago and I just Loved Prince Nuada for so many reasons and I happen to see this thread and thought I might join in

[Sparrow_hawk]

Hello I only finally got to see the movie for the first time a couple days ago and I just Loved Prince Nuada for so many reasons and I happen to see this thread and thought I might join in

Hi Dragongirl! And welcome to the thread. I think Nuada has become one of my all-time favorite Fantasy Movie characters, and the more I see him the more I like him. We've been a bit slow here of late -- probably distracted by the upcoming holidays and the recent airing of a new and interesting SGA episode -- so it's nice to see the thread active again. What was it that really hooked you about the Prince?

[dragongirl]

Hi Dragongirl! And welcome to the thread. I think Nuada has become one of my all-time favorite Fantasy Movie characters, and the more I see him the more I like him. We've been a bit slow here of late -- probably distracted by the upcoming holidays and the recent airing of a new and interesting SGA episode -- so it's nice to see the thread active again. What was it that really hooked you about the Prince?

Thanks and I like that He was/is willing to stand for what he thought was right. He saw a problem and the way the people like him were suffering and he wanted to make it right. He was willing to get what he wanted or die trying.

and there is the shallow part of me that must speak up and say he is also gorgeous and from that first scene in the metro I was just wow and then as the movie went on there was more to like about him.

[dasNdanger]

Thanks and I like that He was/is willing to stand for what he thought was right. He saw a problem and the way the people like him were suffering and he wanted to make it right. He was willing to get what he wanted or die trying.

and there is the shallow part of me that must speak up and say he is also gorgeous and from that first scene in the metro I was just wow and then as the movie went on there was more to like about him.

Glad to have you join us!

I think our dear prince had that affect on a lot of us. HOWEVER...if he wasn't as sympathetic a character, I doubt we would have ever seen his beauty. But his beauty came through because he was so passionate about what he believed in - and THAT cause was just - he just went about things in the wrong way.

I think of how we humans, when we are mad at someone - even someone we love - may lash out in irrational or even violent ways. We may break things, or slash their tires, or throw their clothes out the window, or do other rash, stupid things. (Not me - I learned all of this from COPS. ) Fury just takes over and we stop thinking rationally. I think that's what happened with Nuada. Under normal conditions, he would have been able to reason against taking such rash, violent action. But he snapped, and that is what lead him to do the things he did.

The fact that we can see this - that we can see that the character had a breaking point and his subsequent actions stem from that - is the reason we can sympathize with him and see his beauty, both that on the surface, and that that lies underneath.

If Nuada had no redeeming qualities, or if he was just pure evil (like Ledger's Joker), then I doubt we'd be admiring his loveliness. Instead, I'm guessing we'd be thinking he was just another ghoul, and we'd be glad to see him dead. As it is, we feel quite the opposite.

das

[dragongirl]

I completely agree when I first say him in the movie I saw the outside apperacen and the fighting and thought wow he is cool and then once we see him in the court with his father and we see and hear what he is wanting and why I felt for him. I sympathise with what he must be going through wanting his people to not have to live in the dark and secret places. The way he went abot it was wrong but after centuries I think he felt he had no other option. He was also on some level knew that he had crossed that line because of his line about having to kill him because he would not stop. It is that that made me like him more if he had been a mindless killer that ws doing what he was because he enjoyed and had no real reason behind it I would not have been so drawn to him.

[dasNdanger]

I completely agree when I first say him in the movie I saw the outside apperacen and the fighting and thought wow he is cool and then once we see him in the court with his father and we see and hear what he is wanting and why I felt for him. I sympathise with what he must be going through wanting his people to not have to live in the dark and secret places. The way he went abot it was wrong but after centuries I think he felt he had no other option. He was also on some level knew that he had crossed that line because of his line about having to kill him because he would not stop. It is that that made me like him more if he had been a mindless killer that ws doing what he was because he enjoyed and had no real reason behind it I would not have been so drawn to him.

You make a good point. Nuada never seemed to enjoy the killing...he did what he had to do, but he wasn't celebrating afterwards. In fact, his expressions are most pained...as if he's feeling his own blade, too.

It reminds me of Wolverine in the comics - he kills, but he doesn't rejoice in it. Instead, he often condemns himself, knowing that he's taking lives, but realizing that he 'can't stop' because he can't allow the injustices. Of course, Wolverine only kills 'bad guys', but it's a similar reaction - Even though Nuada was the so-called 'villain', his reaction to the lives he took was more like that of a typical anti-hero.

So, I think although he was a killer (due to his warrior nature), Nuada was NOT used to being a murderer...I feel this was - perhaps - the first time he actually stepped over the line, and it wasn't as comfortable a fit as he thought it would be.

das

[dragongirl]

Yes exactly and his voice when he killed hi father was broken and regretful.

I was also taken with his reaction to Wink's death he had lost his best friend and that hurt him where as a typical "villian" doesn't hold life in high regard. His grief over the death of a friend and trying to get Red on his side in hopes that he could stop the death of the elemental. Even when his father ordered his death his first thought went to his sister that would share the same fate as him.

[dasNdanger]

Yes exactly and his voice when he killed hi father was broken and regretful.

I was also taken with his reaction to Wink's death he had lost his best friend and that hurt him where as a typical "villian" doesn't hold life in high regard. His grief over the death of a friend and trying to get Red on his side in hopes that he could stop the death of the elemental. Even when his father ordered his death his first thought went to his sister that would share the same fate as him.

I think that point is lost on a lot of people. Even though Nuala was at peace with her father's decision, Nuada was fighting for her, as well as himself, and for all of his people.

Sad thing is, they were unappreciative. As I said before, they had grown complacent, the fight had left them and they had accepted their fate. But Nuada could not - he didn't just want to 'fade away' - he wanted to restore his kind to their original glory.

It was truly a noble fight.


das

[dragongirl]

It is sad that so many of his people were content to just fade and be forgotten. To see his people proud and stong and then to watch as they just sat back and watch the humans take and take and take giving nothing back in return. To see him want and try so hard to bring his people back was sad and upsetting to see.

[Sparrow_hawk]

It is sad that so many of his people were content to just fade and be forgotten. To see his people proud and stong and then to watch as they just sat back and watch the humans take and take and take giving nothing back in return. To see him want and try so hard to bring his people back was sad and upsetting to see.

Yes, I think Nuada had hoped for a very different reception when he returned to Court. Nuada still loved and respected his father and showed it by kneeling when he approached the throne. He truly wished for his father's approval and support in the fight to take back the Earth from mankind. But it was not to be: King Balor and the rest had resigned themselves to their fate and had no desire to take up arms again. Poor Nuada -- to find himself faced with the choice of dying and knowing that it would be the end of his people, or killing his father and continuing his struggle alone. He really was the last of his kind, the last of the Elven Warriors.

And I agree with das's comment: I don't think I would be able to lust after , uh, be so fond of Prince Nuada if he had been truly evil. He had a noble goal, but found himself backed into a corner and forced to take desperate and horrible measures to achieve that goal. Nuala's stabbing herself to kill Nuada and prevent him from dishonorably attacking Red after his defeat to re-take the crown really was a coup de grace, a "mercy blow", and put an end to Nuada's misery. And it just happened to have the added effect of saving mankind from a devastating war (yeah, it was probably the other way around but I'll stick to my Nuada-centric view of the film).

[dasNdanger]

Yes, I think Nuada had hoped for a very different reception when he returned to Court. Nuada still loved and respected his father and showed it by kneeling when he approached the throne. He truly wished for his father's approval and support in the fight to take back the Earth from mankind. But it was not to be: King Balor and the rest had resigned themselves to their fate and had no desire to take up arms again. Poor Nuada -- to find himself faced with the choice of dying and knowing that it would be the end of his people, or killing his father and continuing his struggle alone. He really was the last of his kind, the last of the Elven Warriors.

And I agree with das's comment: I don't think I would be able to lust after , uh, be so fond of Prince Nuada if he had been truly evil. He had a noble goal, but found himself backed into a corner and forced to take desperate and horrible measures to achieve that goal. Nuala's stabbing herself to kill Nuada and prevent him from dishonorably attacking Red after his defeat to re-take the crown really was a coup de grace, a "mercy blow", and put an end to Nuada's misery. And it just happened to have the added effect of saving mankind from a devastating war (yeah, it was probably the other way around but I'll stick to my Nuada-centric view of the film).

I like your Nuada-centric view!

I think Nuala did do it to save her brother, as much as she did it to save everyone else.

It was as much a mercy killing as it was a sacrifice. Of course, it could be argued that - as Nuada suffered, so did Nuala. She wasn't just releasing him, she was releasing herself. I really wish she had said something to Nuada at that moment...but maybe they didn't want to make her sacrifice too specific, instead allowing people to see in it what they wanted to see.

Since I go on comic book forums and have some contact with creators, I've been halfway tempted to see if I could contact the Hellboy writer (forget his name since I don't read that comic) to see if he'd ever consider writing Nuada into the stories. He was such a great character, and I'd be more than willing to read stories about him, provided they follow the model set in the movie, and not the pattern set in the book adaptation.

das