Do aliens really exist?

[ibwolf]

I think the power of (a) God basically is omnipotence and omniscience. And no (human) being will ever be omniscient and omnipotent (hopefully ).

No, but there are plenty of humans who wouldn't mind being all that (and more)

[Janus]

I think they do.

First of all, I agree with the people who say the Bible doesn't say that there is now alien life out there.
We're talking God here, he can create as many species as he wants....

But I think we have a problem.
If they are smart enough to get here using FTL-technology, they are smart enough to stay hidden from anything we can come up with to detect them.

[trinity1013]

No, but there are plenty of humans who wouldn't mind being all that (and more)

Including you?? Omniscience would be nice... would sound really cool on my CV.

But I think we have a problem.
If they are smart enough to get here using FTL-technology, they are smart enough to stay hidden from anything we can come up with to detect them.

I guess the prob would rather be that, if they were that advanced, they'd be smart enough to... hmm, say, wipe us out! Seriously, with a bit of bad luck, they'd be way more like "Independence Day" aliens or Goa'ulds than Nox or Asgard.

[ibwolf]

Including you?? Omniscience would be nice... would sound really cool on my CV.

No, not me. Omnipotent, maybe, omniscient, no way. Just imagine how incredably dull it would be. I mean, it's not like you could sit down and watch some TV or read a book. You already know it all by heart Soooo
boring.

[puddlejumper747]

Short Answers:
Do Aliens really exist? Maybe.
And that's about the ONLY answer we currently have to that question.
It's NOT a stupid question, LordAnubis, but the problem is we just don't know.
Is it possible? Yes, of course.
Does it threaten the beliefs of Christianity/Catholicism in any way? No, absolutely not.
And God is much, much more than just infinitely omnipotent and omniscient, but I won't go into that now.

[trinity1013]

No, not me. Omnipotent, maybe, omniscient, no way. Just imagine how incredably dull it would be. I mean, it's not like you could sit down and watch some TV or read a book. You already know it all by heart Soooo boring.

Okay, you get omnipotence, I get omniscience. I guess the first would be as boring as the latter.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

81 posts and the usual reasonings for defending the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

False logic.


1) Lots and lots of space = the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

What the heck does the amount of space have to do with anything?????

2) If we intelligent humans can concoct aliens and alien landscapes, then intelligent extraterrestrial life must exist.

<cough> We also concocted Pegasus, geese that lay golden eggs, magic beans, giants that live in the clouds, fairy godmothers with the power to evolve rats into men.

Similarly, all the so-called intelligent extraterrestrial life that we have thus far encountered were either made in Hollywood or in SF novels. ETs are the artful conception of human minds.

We have imagined thus far impossible to use FTL travel, thus it somehow stands to reason that there are intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms that actually have FTL travel???

We are curious and inventive, so all other(supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also be. That is like saying that since we have two eyes, all other (supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also have two eyes.

Hey, I'm just sayin'.

[LordAnubis]

81 posts and the usual reasonings for defending the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

False logic.


1) Lots and lots of space = the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

What the heck does the amount of space have to do with anything?????

2) If we intelligent humans can concoct aliens and alien landscapes, then intelligent extraterrestrial life must exist.

<cough> We also concocted Pegasus, geese that lay golden eggs, magic beans, giants that live in the clouds, fairy godmothers with the power to evolve rats into men.

Similarly, all the so-called intelligent extraterrestrial life that we have thus far encountered were either made in Hollywood or in SF novels. ETs are the artful conception of human minds.

We have imagined thus far impossible to use FTL travel, thus it somehow stands to reason that there are intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms that actually have FTL travel???

We are curious and inventive, so all other(supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also be. That is like saying that since we have two eyes, all other (supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also have two eyes.

Hey, I'm just sayin'.

False logic? It's called the law of probability. Some of what you said is very true, but keep in mind, the vastness of space theory plays upon the law of probability. If life could develop on Earth, to the advanced point that it has, then given the amount of space, the sheer number of possible life-bearing planets out there, then it's highly probable that at least a few hundred to a thousand of those planets would also develop life of some kind. At least one to ten of those planets would possibly develop advanced life.

Now, you're also confusing aliens/extraterrestrial life with space-faring aliens. Simply because a life form has become advanced does not mean it has the capacity to travel the stars in ships or through gates. It's possible there are alien civilizations out there that are fairly equal to us technologically, or even less advanced than us.

Imagination has nothing to do with it. Logic and reason dictate that it would be "a great waste of space", to quote the dude from "Contact" if we were really alone out there. There is a logical order to the universe. We fit into that order somehow. I dont know if it's God's plan, random convergence of star elements and cosmic dust, or whatever, but we fit into the cosmic order somehow. We cannot be the only advanced life forms out there. How sad would that be? What a waste if it were just us and us alone. However, I don't think we are. Who knows what/who is out there among the vastness of the galaxy/universe, but perhaps one day we will find out.

Let's just hope our first contact is with an Asgard or Tollan like race, not a race like the Goa'uld or Wraith or any other bad guys.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

False logic? It's called the law of probability. Some of what you said is very true, but keep in mind, the vastness of space theory plays upon the law of probability.
If life could develop on Earth, to the advanced point that it has, then given the amount of space, the sheer number of possible life-bearing planets out there, then it's highly probable that at least a few hundred to a thousand of those planets would also develop life of some kind. At least one to ten of those planets would possibly develop advanced life.

I'm not even going to touch that part because, AFAIC evolution is also false logic that defies the laws of probability, big time. <shrugs>

Now, you're also confusing aliens/extraterrestrial life with space-faring aliens.

No, I'm not. I'm simply referring to the assumption espressed here on the thread about intelligent aliens and FTL travel.

Imagination has nothing to do with it. Logic and reason dictate that it would be "a great waste of space", to quote the dude from "Contact" if we were really alone out there. There is a logical order to the universe. We fit into that order somehow. I dont know if it's God's plan, random convergence of star elements and cosmic dust, or whatever, but we fit into the cosmic order somehow.

At this point in our knowledge of space and beyond, immagination has everything to do with it.
Logic and reason don't really dictate any such thing; longing dictates that we don't want to be alone, perhaps, but what we want is immaterial to what is. (BTW, I'm not saying that there is or isn't ET life; I just think the reasons put forward in favor of ETs is flawed.)

We cannot be the only advanced life forms out there.

Longing, couched as a declaration of fact. We get that a lot.

Scientists and other "authorities" make such statements regularly and that's when people get confused. (IMO)

How sad would that be? What a waste if it were just us and us alone.

Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but, a waste of what, exactly? Space? That's entirely relative.

100 years ago businessmen said that wetlands were a waste of space. So we filled them in and planted cities and suburbs on them. Now we know that wetlands were not a waste of space but absolutely vital to the planet's survival. Maybe one day we'll learn a similar lesson about the rainforests, too. Perhaps 100 years ago the same could have been said about our own solar system; nine planets and all that space and yet there's only one habitable planet?

Of course, now we know that it takes a whole lot of space and big, heavy objects flying around in an orderly fashion within that space to keep the strong and weak forces of gravity at just the right levels to keep Earth in her place.

So, you see, I'm not saying that ETs might not exist, only that space is not, in and of itself, a reason for them to exist.

[LordAnubis]

I'm not even going to touch that part because, AFAIC evolution is also false logic that defies the laws of probability, big time. <shrugs>



No, I'm not. I'm simply referring to the assumption espressed here on the thread about intelligent aliens and FTL travel.




At this point in our knowledge of space and beyond, immagination has everything to do with it.
Logic and reason don't really dictate any such thing; longing dictates that we don't want to be alone, perhaps, but what we want is immaterial to what is. (BTW, I'm not saying that there is or isn't ET life; I just think the reasons put forward in favor of ETs is flawed.)




Longing, couched as a declaration of fact. We get that a lot.

Scientists and other "authorities" make such statements regularly and that's when people get confused. (IMO)






Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but, a waste of what, exactly? Space? That's entirely relative.

100 years ago businessmen said that wetlands were a waste of space. So we filled them in and planted cities and suburbs on them. Now we know that wetlands were not a waste of space but absolutely vital to the planet's survival. Maybe one day we'll learn a similar lesson about the rainforests, too. Perhaps 100 years ago the same could have been said about our own solar system; nine planets and all that space and yet there's only one habitable planet?

Of course, now we know that it takes a whole lot of space and big, heavy objects flying around in an orderly fashion within that space to keep the strong and weak forces of gravity at just the right levels to keep Earth in her place.

So, you see, I'm not saying that ETs might not exist, only that space is not, in and of itself, a reason for them to exist.

Man, you've sure given this a lot of thought! I think you made some really good points and it made me reconsider my post. I think you're right about one thing: I sure hope intelligent ET life exits out there. I guess my longing might have superceded my logic, but I still think it's possible and will keep hoping. Thanks for putting me in perspective!

[Jprime]

To anyone interested in this subject I strongly suggest to go out and read a copy of Nature's Destiny.