Stargate, Star Wars, Star Trek : which one is the Greatest?

[kmiller1610]

guys stargate doesn't measure up to anything Star Wars or Star Trek has done.

You have to establish some definitions to have this discussion and if you are going to include Star Wars in a discussion of Science Fiction, you are going to have to include The Lord of the Rings trilogy because Star Wars is NOT science fiction. Please tell me what scientific principle "The Force" is based on. What technology now known could possibly result in light sabers? Star Wars does not even attempt to be Science Fiction. It is Science Fantasy. Lord of the Rings' three movies clearly blow away Star Wars. Ask the critics. Ask the box office. In this corner, Return of the Jedi or is it Teddy Bears? In this corner, Best Picture, Return of the King. No Contest.......

Star Trek has certainly had a great run and if you want to argue the quantity over quality angle, you win. But Trek is a complete mess from a continuity and consistency basis. It is a generalized brand or franchise where anything goes. Scores of books and articles have been written on the inconsistencies alone.

Now if you are going to include movies there is a lot of science fiction better than any of the TV SciFi shows. If you limit the discussion to TV shows, I think Stargate SG-1 seasons 2-7 had better acting, better continuity and a more focused story apart from B-5 than any other TV Sc-Fi. B-5 had the best writing, but more uneven acting. Now if you try and identify even 4 seasons of Trek that had continuity, acting and story telling (all three in combination) even close to SG-1 or B-5, I'd like to know where it is.

The Trek arguement is the bulk arguement.

Star Wars is science fantasy.

Stargate wins. B5 second. Trek third.

[Starbase]

Out of those three I rank them this way....

1) Deep Space 9: Simply the greatest scifi series ever!.
2) Stargate: A very close second to DS9.
3) The Next Generation: Great series but not quite as good as my top 2.
4) Stargate Atlantis: This show is growing on me, I hope it lasts at least 4 more seasons.
5) Voyager, Enterprise and TOS: All great shows.
6) Modern Star Wars movies: Best special effects I have ever seen!.
7) Old Star Wars movies: Loved the storyline and characters.

[Morbo]

Now if you try and identify even 4 seasons of Trek that had continuity, acting and story telling (all three in combination) even close to SG-1 or B-5, I'd like to know where it is.

That's easy. Deep Space 9's run from seasons 3-7 - well, hey thats 5 seasons actually.
And TNG had no problem with continuity. It was a episode to episode type of series, not a huge arcing one. It had a few stories that it returned to, or referenced, but they were well in order. And TNG season 3-7 was some of the best television out there.

[the Fifth Race]

That's easy. Deep Space 9's run from seasons 3-7 - well, hey that's 5 seasons actually.
And TNG had no problem with continuity. It was a episode to episode type of series, not a huge arcing one. It had a few stories that it returned to, or referenced, but they were well in order. And TNG season 3-7 was some of the best television out there.

I agree Morbo, DS9 (especially from season IV) had fantastic continuity and truly great episodes. Heck, season 5, 6 and 7 (other than some great stand alone episodes) seemed like one brilliant and exciting episode with the Dominion war story arc.

Brother Kmiller has not yet seen seasons 5, 6 or 7 of DS9 as yet. My good friend brother Starbase is going to change that. Once you watch seasons 5, 6 and 7 Kmiller you will know exactly what we mean!. You are truly in for a treat not having seen the whole Dominion war storyline play out, I envy you.

[kmiller1610]

That's easy. Deep Space 9's run from seasons 3-7 - well, hey thats 5 seasons actually. And TNG had no problem with continuity. It was a episode to episode type of series, not a huge arcing one.

But now you're back to acting. I know this is a matter of taste, but while Picard is in my top 5 Sci Fi figures, I find Riker very wooden and then there's Wesley Crusher. TNG is a very good space opera type series, but like you mentioned, where's the arc? I do still have to see the latter half of DS-9. I saw most of the first 3 seasons. Thought Sisko was about as wooden as Riker, and Bashir didn't do much for me. I really liked the Odo and the Bjoran Female Commander and a number of the Cardassians and Quark.

[mckaychick]

the greatest??????? Oh brother. Umm. ee.

Startrek!

[Ancient 1]

Southpark meets Star Trek: TNG

[Morbo]

But now you're back to acting. I know this is a matter of taste, but while Picard is in my top 5 Sci Fi figures, I find Riker very wooden and then there's Wesley Crusher. TNG is a very good space opera type series, but like you mentioned, where's the arc? I do still have to see the latter half of DS-9. I saw most of the first 3 seasons. Thought Sisko was about as wooden as Riker, and Bashir didn't do much for me. I really liked the Odo and the Bjoran Female Commander and a number of the Cardassians and Quark.

thats just the kind of show it is though.
It adds to the quirk of it.
And who says you need a huge sweeping arc to make a series great? You don't.
TNG had so many amazing individual stories! That's what made it so great.

Oh, and Sisko turns from rigid haired by the book dude, to a bald death dealing bad @$$. you will love it!

[Orion's Star]

You have to establish some definitions to have this discussion and if you are going to include Star Wars in a discussion of Science Fiction, you are going to have to include The Lord of the Rings trilogy because Star Wars is NOT science fiction. Please tell me what scientific principle "The Force" is based on. What technology now known could possibly result in light sabers? Star Wars does not even attempt to be Science Fiction. It is Science Fantasy. Lord of the Rings' three movies clearly blow away Star Wars. Ask the critics. Ask the box office. In this corner, Return of the Jedi or is it Teddy Bears? In this corner, Best Picture, Return of the King. No Contest.......

You cannot actually be serious. Let me elucidate this for you, so that you can see how wrong you are. Star Wars is the highest grossing franchise of movies of all time, with the exception of possibly the Bond movies and they only make more because there are so many of them. I don't have the energy to look that up. Let me show you how (These are just the domestic gross, by the way):

All six SW movies - $1,892,493,435
LotR - $1,033,590,253
Now for just the original, SW movies, without even calculating in inflation - $1,060,779,251

You will notice how LotR does not even beat the original movies. Here is a link where you can check the figures yourself in case I somehow messed up the calculations. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

Is Star Wars science fantasy? It possibly is. Does that really matter? No. Star Wars: ANH was nominated for Best Picture but it did lose. How many sci-fi movies have won Oscars? That would be 0. Are the LotR movies excellent movies? Of course they are, but they have had practically no impact on the way we as a society look at the world in comparison to SW. SW changed the way movies were made. They, along with Jaws, created the movie blockbuster (which allowed movies like LotR to be made in the first place). They created a huge pop culture phenomenon that is such a part of our collective subconscious that a lot of people don't even realize it.

For me, this is a joke of a question. Ask the average 10 people on the street this question and probably only two (I think I am being generous here) at most would even know what Stargate was. And I think that is enough of an answer as to who is greater. Everyone else would probably argue over whether or not Kirk could beat Han in a brawl.

[kmiller1610]

You cannot actually be serious.

It's not possible to be serious with a thread that is so poorly conceived. We are comparing movies to TV series. We have not defined great. PLEASE DEFINE GREAT so we can have a discussion.

Do you get negative points for THE WORST DIALOUGE IN ANY PRESENTATION OF ANY DRAMATIC EVENT IN ENTERTAINMENT HISTORY? I'm watching ep 3 yesterday and it's so agonizingly bad, I'm begging the TV to just kill me. How do you balance ticket sales with critical acclaim? Star Wars is an FX movie. Stargate has REAL acting, real dialouge, people I care about. LOTR is based on one of the most respected pieces of litertaure in the past centruy and was expertly done. So, you're right, I'm not serious.....

[kmiller1610]

Top 10 Science fiction movies of all time according to:

Wired: Star Wars is number 10
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.06/scifi.html

Guardian's panel of Sci Fi experts:Empire Strikes back is number 3
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/news/...290764,00.html

Video Vista: Star Wars is number 3
http://www.videovista.net/articles/futureperfect.html

I checked several others and Star Wars or Empire is in the top ten, but never number one.......

[Orion's Star]

It's not possible to be serious with a thread that is so poorly conceived. We are comparing movies to TV series. We have not defined great. PLEASE DEFINE GREAT so we can have a discussion.

Do you get negative points for THE WORST DIALOUGE IN ANY PRESENTATION OF ANY DRAMATIC EVENT IN ENTERTAINMENT HISTORY? I'm watching ep 3 yesterday and it's so agonizingly bad, I'm begging the TV to just kill me. How do you balance ticket sales with critical acclaim? Star Wars is an FX movie. Stargate has REAL acting, real dialouge, people I care about. LOTR is based on one of the most respected pieces of litertaure in the past centruy and was expertly done. So, you're right, I'm not serious.....

If you cannot see how SW has not had an impact on pop culture, on society in general, since the very beginning, then I am not going to explain it to you. That is what makes it great. Well, okay, I'm just going to say this. Has Stargate had a U.S. missile defense plan named after it? Has Stargate had hundreds of thousands declared themselves followers of its religion? Has Stargate created practically an entire movie industry on its own just because of its existence? That is greatness. And another thing, http://www.afi.com/tvevents/100years/movies.aspx

Stargate is a good show, but it is fluff. It is a cliche ridden show that is for mindless entertainment. I like it and the reason I like it so much is because it doesn't make you think, it doesn't freak you out, like better shows like Farscape or BSG. And sometimes you want that feeling. That is what Stargate is good at and that is why I watch it. So that I can relax and enjoy a good ride.

As for LotR, please. They are good books, and Tolkien was a good writer. They are respected, but these are not part of the canonical literature we are talking about. They were not Ulysses. It is just a collection of books deeply beloved by its fans.

[kmiller1610]

If you cannot see how SW has not had an impact on pop culture

Well at least we now understand your definition of greatness. American Idol beats Pavoratti. Lucas scripts beat Tolkein. And by all means, Shakespeare is, like so OVER!

Star Wars: Great FX and uh.... hmmm great music? Well, Okay music. Let's face it, every SW movie is a classic... hmmm, a lot of critics hate at least half the movies. Star Wars is a classic because when the original came out, there was nothing like it. But do you really think eps 1, 2 and 3 were anything but cartoons? Star Wars quality ended with Empire Strikes back, so that's 2 of 6 movies that were really good. Yes, they are fun, but the series is not even close to Great.......... Bladerunner was great. Gattica was great. Aliens was great. Hey, at least I'm comparing movies to movies. And Serendipity was great. And if you just watch Obei Whan in the last movie, HE was great.....
The rest is a combination of Howard the Duck, wonderful FX and the worst acting in the western hemisphere ..............

[Diohazard]

1.) Stargate Atlantis
2.) Star Trek
3.) Star Wars

[mckaychick]

Yeah
1. Startrek
2. Stargate atlantis
3.Starwars