Entitlement and the Modern Fandom

[Madeleine]

Can we talk in generalities as much as possible, please? It's just as easy to make the point that needs to be made.

[Qasim]

Q: Can the mods do anything if someone just gives out red rep to everyone all the time because she is a CB fan and not a stargate fan and tries to foster anti-sam sentiment (as if that has any chance of succeeding)

[ShadowMaat]

Can we talk in generalities as much as possible, please? It's just as easy to make the point that needs to be made.

Well, people inclined to neg over something as petty as a difference of opinion DO share a lot of the same qualities and it's highly likely that finding an objectionable post of theirs to neg would not be a problem. Some things are too malignant to hide, no matter how much sugar you pour onto 'em, and that, sadly, is not an isolated issue.

There are the stealth variety, who neg without posting on a subject, but with the rep system being what it is these days, it's easy enough to ferret them out, too, so that everyone can take proper precautions.

[Madeleine]

Q: Can the mods do anything if someone just gives out red rep to everyone all the time because she is a CB fan and not a stargate fan and tries to foster anti-sam sentiment (as if that has any chance of succeeding)

The rep feature isn't moderated.

I get a red every few days because my stalker doesn't like me. My stalker dings my fluffy posts, she doesn't even go looking for a controversial one, it's enough that I've posted at all - that's the only reason for dinging me. When asked why, she told me that it's because I visit the OS forum. No kidding, that's the exact reason she gave. Not because of what I post there (which is very little, but tends to be stuff I've already said on GW anyway), but because I visit it. (And she knows I visit it because she can sometimes see my name on the login list when *she* visits )

So I get dinged regularly, because someone disapproves of my very existence. It happens to two or three others as well.

I'm a moderator, and I can't even do anything about my own stalker. Because the Reputation feature is an unmoderated part of GW forum. So no, I can't do anything about petty dings that a fan of one character or pairing gives to that character or pairing's detractors. And at least they have a vaguely stargatey reason for the dings, not just 'I don't like you'

[Qasim]

But dont the rules say 'Respect your fellow poster'

Someone like that is being very disrespectful

[Shipperahoy]

We do get involved if the message left is very mean or vulgar because that is a big breach of forum rules but that is about the only time we will get involved with the rep system. Before it was decided that we wouldn't police the rep system we would get PM's practically every time somebody got a red rep saying how unfair it was and couldn't we delete it. The rep feature is about opinion and it's not our place to decide if a rep point is "deserved" or not. While there are certainly times that I very much feel that a person should not be red dinging people, like because they simply express a different opinion or because you don't like them, my hands are tied. There has been a time recently when I've gotten sniped from someone who does it on a regular basis that I PMed the person as a regular member to discuss the situation and told said person how I felt about it and that is something that anybody could do if they feel so inclined. However, as a mod there is nothing I can do about it.

[Qasim]

I PM'ed one of the people who seem to be like that when I found out she had insulted me in a post - supposedly my opinion is a 'bad view'

Guess what response I got - I didnt even get a response

Some people are just cowards

[Liebestraume]

I PM'ed one of the people who seem to be like that when I found out she had insulted me in a post - supposedly my opinion is a 'bad view'

Guess what response I got - I didnt even get a response

Some people are just cowards

Since we are discussing fandom etiquette here ... do you consider that particular characterization appropriate?

Whomever she is -- it is within her right to think your views "bad," however valid you think they are. She could even choose to voice that opinion (preferrably with courtesy, of course), so long as she provides her reasons for saying so. If you feel her argument is baseless, feel free to counter it with one of your own. Name-calling serves nothing.

[Qasim]

She just said that it was 'Bad' with no explanation at all

Therefore people reading that thread may form a bad opinion of me

As for countering I am on her ignore list so she cant see my reply

So I got someone to quote my reply so she could see it

She didnt respond but made a cryptic remark about a moderator removing my post

Shes the one with the problem - Shes the one who needs moderating

[Feli]

Shes the one with the problem - Shes the one who needs moderating

Excuse me? She needs moderating for not liking your opinion?

[AGateFan]

Excuse me? She needs moderating for not liking your opinion?

Would seem she needs moderating for :
A) Being rather rude and insulting. (i.e. Publicly stating that someone makes bad post and should be ignored without providing legitimate reasoning)

B) Red repping everyone even for a opinions that are not even insulting (i.e. stating that 'any actor is lucky to have a job' is a red reppitable offence)

C) Occasionally Spamming threads with the same new (sometimes long) tidbit of why everyone loves his\her favorite character and thus anyone who thinks differently is just wrong.

D) An addendum to C as occasionally the spam posting is off topic. (oh wait, I cant think of an example ,.. I forgot that Vala\CB is the ONLY valid topic anymore.... Well Vala and how crpy Sam is (not that the person in question does this his\herself).

BTW my personal opinion is red repping in retaliation is a bit wrong. Although as was stated ealier the tempation is occasionally there, I too will not sucumb to the dark side. If I dont like what someone says I laugh and move on or write a post stating my opinion (and wait for the red)... I also dont put people on ignore, that sort of defeats the purpose of the forum. The only people I would consider ignoring are true trolls. And since this board has such great mods the trolls dont last long enough for me to ever have to have done this.

[ShadowMaat]

I think Feli's point is that if you're going to complain about how someone negs you over a disagreement of opinion, it's a little questionable to say that someone needs to be modded... over a difference of opinion.

Granted, if someone is rude and insulting towards another poster, that could be grounds for modding, but only because the person is rude and insulting, NOT because s/he disagrees with you.

You have to remember to keep it within the boundaries of Gateworld's rules. If you start going above and beyond and saying things like, "Well, THIS person's opinion isn't valid!" then you run the risk of becoming like the person you're accusing... and you're just as guilty of falling into the entitlement trap (just to reintroduce the subject of the thread).

Do people abuse the rules? Hell yes, constantly and all the time. But what, exactly, are the Mods supposed to do about it? Make exceptions? And if they make an exception for THIS person, shouldn't they make an exception for THAT person? Pretty soon the Mods are running around, expected to settle personal disputes instead of doing their "real" job and the problem gets that much worse. And, of course, once you start making exceptions, it's only a matter of time before you, yourself, suddenly find yourself on the wrong end of a moderation because someone didn't like your attitude.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm not condemning anyone, I'm just trying to point things out. If the rules haven't been broken, then there's nothing that can be done... by the mods. And trying to take "justice" into your own hands can be even MORE dangerous, especially if YOU wind up breaking the rules and/or behaving worse than your antagonizer.

This is one of the reasons that the Ignore option is so wonderful: you don't have to read the person's posts and you don't have to see what (if any) idiotic comments they post when they neg you.

[Qasim]

Excuse me? She needs moderating for not liking your opinion?

No because she is unable to show respect to others and when someone responds to her lack of respect she says a "mod should clean the thread" why doesnt she go clean her mouth

Would seem she needs moderating for :
A) Being rather rude and insulting. (i.e. Publicly stating that someone makes bad post and should be ignored without providing legitimate reasoning)

B) Red repping everyone even for a opinions that are not even insulting (i.e. stating that 'any actor is lucky to have a job' is a red reppitable offence)

C) Occasionally Spamming threads with the same new (sometimes long) tidbit of why everyone loves his\her favorite character and thus anyone who thinks differently is just wrong.

D) An addendum to C as occasionally the spam posting is off topic. (oh wait, I cant think of an example ,.. I forgot that Vala\CB is the ONLY valid topic anymore.... Well Vala and how crpy Sam is (not that the person in question does this his\herself).

BTW my personal opinion is red repping in retaliation is a bit wrong. Although as was stated ealier the tempation is occasionally there, I too will not sucumb to the dark side. If I dont like what someone says I laugh and move on or write a post stating my opinion (and wait for the red)... I also dont put people on ignore, that sort of defeats the purpose of the forum. The only people I would consider ignoring are true trolls. And since this board has such great mods the trolls dont last long enough for me to ever have to have done this.

I agree completely with AGateFan: I am glad to see somebody around here is still respectful and polite I dont ignore people because then I would be giving in to those people who say that the internet will mean people only talk to people who they agree with

As for red rep: I dont give it out

If you like a post then give green

If you dont then remember this 'If you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all' - Thats my take anyway

I think Feli's point is that if you're going to complain about how someone negs you over a disagreement of opinion, it's a little questionable to say that someone needs to be modded... over a difference of opinion.

Granted, if someone is rude and insulting towards another poster, that could be grounds for modding, but only because the person is rude and insulting, NOT because s/he disagrees with you.

You have to remember to keep it within the boundaries of Gateworld's rules. If you start going above and beyond and saying things like, "Well, THIS person's opinion isn't valid!" then you run the risk of becoming like the person you're accusing... and you're just as guilty of falling into the entitlement trap (just to reintroduce the subject of the thread).

This person seems to think that somebody who doesnt like their favourite character should go jump in a river - If somebody has a difference of opinion then fine but why post to the world that you have put someone on ignore and defame that person with your comments

Heres a rep message that I have gotten:

Just ignore ********. In her eyes, if you don't worship Claudia, you don't matter.

All the others have dropped off the list but this person really does think that you are a piece of trash in the gutter if you disagree with her and blatantly makes her feelings known

Perhaps we should get back to discussing the article - the aggravation caused by this person isnt helping anyone

[ShadowMaat]

Personally, I think there are a LOT of people who are due for an official reprimand from the mods regarding their attitude towards other fans. Unfortunately, very few of them have been blatant enough to warrant it and I can almost guarantee that ALL of them wouldn't give a rat's ass if God Himself came down and told them to shut up. Because, of course, they're perfectly right and God, well, who asked Him anyway, right?

[Telawen]

Just read the article and the entire thread.

Every fan has an opinion or idea what should happen to his/her favorite character or favorite show. Why else do there exist so many fan fic stories? There's just one thing I would say to the fans who are described in the article: isn't it more fun, more surprising to see what the creators of the show will do? Often episodes have left me totally surprised or in total awe because of everything that happened and I hadn't even thought about. That beats 'getting your way' by light years (like that will ever happen). Or start writing fan fic. That's the medium to get your ideas characters and stories out there.

About courtesy and forums: Sometimes people don't seem to think another human being is behind the username. And sometimes people hurt others simply by not thinking about what they're posting. You miss body language and tone of voice in communication on forums and you really notice that sometimes. Or at least I do.