Entitlement and the Modern Fandom

[Droops]

I wonder how much of the Fandom culture is a result of people wanting to feel important? So many folks go through life and wonder if what they do makes any difference. A lot of times, being a 'big fish' in Fandom gives some sense of purpose and importance that many folks don't otherwise have.

And it's easy for others to say "get a life" to those who fall into that trap. But that's sometimes a lot easier said than done.

Great article, thanks for posting it. Funny how the net has evolved over the last decade into the various communities and services that exist today.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm probably more addicted to fandom than to the shows, themselves. I like the sense of community. I'm fairly isolated where I live and I'm shy to boot, so talking to people via a computer is a perfect solution for me.

I know some people think I'm a bigwig in fandom, but I don't really care to think like that. First off, away from Gateworld I'm pretty much unknown and second... I just wanna be me being me, I don't want to be a Big Name Fan and I don't want to feel that I have to live up to some image people have of me. Yeah, it was fun that Rainbow knew me, but that's 'cause he was lurking on Gateworld. The idea of people from the show- or even just random people from here- knowing (of) me when I don't know them is a little disconcerting to me. I've had at least one stranger want to have a pic taken with me. Maybe others think that's cool, but I think it's creepy. Despite my "loudness" online, I'm an intensely private person and I don't life for things to disturb that. *shrug* But that's just me.

Oh, BTW Seshat, I was wondering if you could make something for me... j/k

[Feli]

yes THAT was amusing! I don't think I care about anything THAT much.

Be careful with such statements! Someone might conclude that you're not a real fan...

[strivaria]

Found this today and thought it appropriate to the topic of conversation:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050527

That was a pretty interesting article though. This is the first fandom I've given this much attention to outside of Anne McCaffery's Pern. Even in that fandom there were people who took it as a personal affront that the author wasn't doing things the way they wanted them done. It was just as strange to watch the ranting about it then as it is now here on GW. And my friends think that I don't have a life.... ha!

[Seshat]

Oh, BTW Seshat, I was wondering if you could make something for me... j/k

How soon they forget Rodney-in-a-Box!!
(he was actually a prezzie requested by someone else, so technically you are still in the clear in my book )

[ShadowMaat]

Mmm... Wodney-in-a-box... How I love thee.

Yes, but on topicness. Um. The entitlement thing seems to extend to fandom in general, too. People seem to think they have a right to dictate what should and shouldn't happen in fandom, what people can and can't say, blah blah blah. The article talks about PTB trying to control their fandoms, but what about the FANS trying to control the fandoms? That can be just as messy, too.

[ShadowMaat]

The only oversight of the article is that the author doesn't mention Entitlement WITHIN fandom. Those who feel that they're "right" and as such, they're free to say anything they want, no matter how cruel, vindictive, and personal it may be.

Yes, there are fans who'll attack the producers, but there are many more who will attack other fans. To keep the Marmaduke thing going, you make one complaint about the comic and certain fans will turn on you like a pack of rabid wolves, snarling in your face, chewing gobbets out of you and trying to rip your throat out, all the while growling about how you've obviously never known the love of a good puppy and you must be a wretched dog-hater who doesn't deserve to live, nevermind post on a board dedicated to the great god (or is it dog?) Marmaduke!

There are a growing number of people who blur the line between fiction and reality... and further between general reality and personal reality. Someone says that Billy isn't very interesting and it's taken as a grave personal insult, as if the hurt party were Billy, himself. Nevermind how politely the comment is couched or the fact that Billy is a fictional character... the attack happens all over again. Over an OPINION. Of a FICTIONAL CHARACTER.

Y'know, guys, there is a thin but important line between loving your dog and loving your dog and you gotta make sure you're standing in the right place (and aren't down on all fours).

And remember that other people have just as much right to hold and express an opinion as you do... and to not be flamed and ridiculed for it. If you can't respectfully disagree with someone, if you can't politely discuss an issue, if you feel SO STRONGLY about something that your only recourse is to attack the opinion-holder rather than the opinion, then maybe the other person isn't the real problem. Think about that.

[Qasim]

Very interesting - Thanks for the link

[ShadowMaat]

Mind you, I AM, in fact, aware that not ALL fans are obsessed with their own sense of self-righteousness. If that were true, no board anywhere would be worth posting on. However, I do think it's a growing problem. Maybe it's inevitable as the internet continues its rapid growth and as more and more people are thrust into online communities... but whatever happened to good manners? What happened to common sense? Good manners includes treating people the way you would want to be treated, and common sense tells you that just because it's the internet doesn't mean there aren't real people on the ends of all those screen names.

Why bash someone for disagreeing? Why neg someone for having an opinion? What's the point of making it all so personal? This is an internet community for a TV show, not the operating room of a major metropolitan hospital (that's a different show ). What happens here is NOT life and death. What happens on the show is not life and death... except for the fictional variety. Having an opinion is one thing, but where does the personal hatred enter into it?

Gateworld isn't as much fun for me as it used to be. There are a lot more of the "taking it personally" kind of people who make no distinction between expressing an opinion about the show and attacking someone for their opinion. This place is supposed to be for rational debate, not a fight-to-the-death cagematch.

People here are getting hurt... and are hurting others. And it's intentional. They set out INTENDING to cause maximum damage and reveling when they succeed. How is that right in ANYONE'S book?

What happened to coming online to have FUN?

I've had a few people tell me I'm too hard on fans. Maybe they're right. Maybe it's wrong of me to expect everyone to treat each other with a little common decency. Maybe I shouldn't assume that good manners are still taught in school. Or maybe, as some have said, I should stop making mountains out of molehills. But as I said, this... lack of respect is something that I have seen increasing. It's a slow process, but I can still see it happening and I don't care if it IS inevitable, I don't like it and I intend to speak out about it when I see it happening.

[Qasim]

Yeah Gateworld isnt what it used to be

The main problem is that people dont read the faq this is extremely obvious in threads when people are asking how to use spoiler tags

I dont get people who red rep people for disagreeing with them - everyone has a right to their opinion and so many people abuse the red rep element of the rep system - I as a matter of principle do not give out red rep under any circumstances because whats the point if you dont like a post just carry on reading the thread and dont let it spoil your enjoyment of the forum

[Easter Lily]

I'm a little bit like Shadow I guess... I'm more interested in the community aspect of fandom than I am a hard-core fan of Stargate... I love Atlantis and I enjoy SG-1 but I love the fellowship that I have here much more. As far as I'm concerned, people and how the shows affect them are far more important reasons for being here. I joined Gateworld because I wanted to discuss Atlantis with likeminded individuals... and I was impressed by the quality of the conversation that I saw here. Gateworld is my little bit of escape from the pressures of RL... I don't need to be stressed about being in here as well. But lately I'm beginning to feel rather frustrated by individuals quibbling loudly over non-essentials. I'm not against people having opinions but I'm probably of the old school that believes that it is possible to offer an opinion contrary to someone else without having to tear the other person down. Frankly speaking, I don't think there is anything important enough about the shows that should cause us to hurt another human being so that we can be heard.

I know I have a wry sense of humour at times that comes out in large doses... but I always try my best to direct it at the post not at the poster. There are some posters here that I admit, stretch my limits of tolerance and when it comes to that, I'd rather just walk away.

With regard to "entitlement"... I don't think TPTB or the actors owe us anything in terms of explaination as to why they do what they do. They say as much as they do to increase anticipation but that's all. But to think that what they say before the show is aired is written in stone is just one step closer to setting ourselves up for a fall. I don't know how many times I've watched those teasers on Lost thinking one thing and then, it turns out to be quite different to what I had thought initially. Let's face it, TPTB at Stargate don't care to reveal ship related stuff... they've been burnt previously by telling fans various things which may or may not have materialized. It's returned to haunt them over and over again. I realise that people have a lot invested in relationships and characters but sometimes storytellers have an agenda which doesn't match our own and we need to be realistic about it.

[Liebestraume]

Thanks for the link, Shadow. It was a thoroughly fun read. Quite bizarre, too; at times I even had to wonder if the guy made it up.

It might be fun to laugh at fans who would take things to these ridiculous extremes; at the same time, I don't think TPTB at large should get a free pass. For example, if they dangle certain ideas in front of their fans for years, why would there be a surprise if said fans eventually respond with "pay up or shut up"? Entitlement is such an ugly word, it sometimes gets used to cover a multitude of sins.

As I fear "attacking someone for their opinion" might. Jane calling John "stupid" is one thing, it's quite another when she says "John's post makes little sense and here is why" and then proceeds to list her reasons. John may get irritated when Jane defeats his argument by facts and/or sound logic, but he shouldn't have expected the inconsistencies in his opinions -- when posted in a public forum -- go unnoticed. "Attacking someone's opinion(s)" is not the same as "attacking someone for their opinion."

Gateworld is a tolerant community, but I hope it has not evolved to a point where reason and nonsense are equally embraced -- our opinions, the right to express them, and all.

[ShadowMaat]

Ah, but if someone told me that I'd never known love, that I was going to shrivel up and grow old surrounded by cats because no one could ever love me all because of an opinion I expressed about a show... what does THAT say?

[Liebestraume]

Off hand, I could think of 3 things:
(1) That person knows a lot about you
(2) That person knows nothing about you
(3) That person is off-topic (unless that thread is specifically about you )

All kidding aside, though, I think that contitutes personal attack (i.e., attacking your for your opinion). I wish he/she have stopped at attacking your opinions about the show, whatever they might be.

ETA -- did anyone really say that? Or did you just make that up?

[ShadowMaat]

Yes, well, that particular person is gone now, as far as I know. Or at least not posting under the same name anymore.

Still, as you said, debating an opinion is fine- it's why this board exists- but I've seen a lot more instances of people trying to make it more personal than that. Nothing quite blatant enough to warrant mod intervention, unfortunately, but definitely calculated to hurt no matter how carefully it's worded.

And again, there are a few running around who think that their opinion is the only one that matters and that if you don't agree then there's something wrong with you. And those "few" have increased in number over the past six months or so.