Matt Smith, Actually the 12th Doctor?

[DigiFluid]

Me neither. What's the point? And how is that any different than how the show's been done so far?

[SaberBlade]

Thats not what I meant....i'm saying that final episode ends with the death of the 13th Doctor, and a new show begins with the 14th anyways.

I think that idea works better if he dies at 13th and something happens, transforming him into a new incarnation of First, then basically use everything that happens next as a remake of sorts.

Although as far as I am concerned, 12th will be the last form (as 10th used two regenerations and I'm sticking to it) so once 12th dies, unlucky 13 can start as number 1.

[Mamid]

I think the time war, and the fact that he's pretty much the last gallifreyan, means that he has as many regenerations as he needs.

[SaberBlade]

I think the time war, and the fact that he's pretty much the last gallifreyan, means that he has as many regenerations as he needs.

I don't think being the last of the Time Lords gives him infinite regenerations. It's not like a shared pool they all use. However, Eighth was the Doctor who took part in the Time War, meaning he could have had extras added on we don't know about, like given a fresh set of 12.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I don't think being the last of the Time Lords gives him infinite regenerations. It's not like a shared pool they all use. However, Eighth was the Doctor who took part in the Time War, meaning he could have had extras added on we don't know about, like given a fresh set of 12.

Presumably. Although Moffat mentioned during Comic Con that that much is still vague, and that it could have been ninth who fought in the Time War. However his attitude in 'Rose' suggests he had just recently regenerated.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I don't think being the last of the Time Lords gives him infinite regenerations. It's not like a shared pool they all use. However, Eighth was the Doctor who took part in the Time War, meaning he could have had extras added on we don't know about, like given a fresh set of 12.

Presumably. Although Moffat mentioned during Comic Con that that much is still vague, and that it could have been ninth who fought in the Time War. However his attitude in 'Rose' suggests he had just recently regenerated.

[SaberBlade]

Presumably. Although Moffat mentioned during Comic Con that that much is still vague, and that it could have been ninth who fought in the Time War. However his attitude in 'Rose' suggests he had just recently regenerated.

'Rose' is why I think Eighth fought the war. I got the same impression that Ninth was a fresh regeneration. old enough to have been a few places but still new enough to not know his looks. I do think that Eighth was the one to fight the war, either died and became Ninth when it ended, or after it ended on a random journey.

[MickyD]

Wow i should have come back to this thread a while ago with what i found.
The limit placed on a Time Lord's regenerations is one of Gallifrayan law, not biological law.
So presumably The Doctor, who is no longer subject to the Gallifrayan laws, can regenerate as many times as he wishes or as many times as he is able to do so.

I'll try find the source for this as it was ages ago when i started this thread and i thought we closed it at 'No one is sure'

In consequence to whoever said: 'after the doctor regenerates he is the first doctor', that's the way floors of a house work, not periods of time. While the first floor in a house is indeed the first floor above the ground, the first doctor is in no way the first AFTER a regeneration.

[WerewolfCas]

Timelords are weird like that....with the regens......god only knows how many the master stole.....

[MickyD]

Timelords are weird like that....with the regens......god only knows how many the master stole.....

Actually The Master expended all of his regenerations back in the old Dr Who and was offered another set of 12 by the Time Lords in exchange for assisting The Doctor with something. Again i'll try to find a source for where i remember this from.

[JackNapper]

TPTB have state that Matt is the 11th Doctor in mini-docs.

I think regens have to be complete transformation and that they are conscious choice. I'm sure there may be some explanation like the process must go to completion or something.

As for Time Lords dying and regenerating over and over that has to do with the time lock. They are forever trapped within a single point or small period or something. Just like Capt Jack can't die because he's "fixed".

[SeaBee]

Here's a little question for clouding the issue with.

In 1965 and 1966 two Doctor Who movies were released, both involving the Daleks, in which The Doctor was played by Peter Cushing. Several others were planned but never made, and his character also appeared in several comics and books, the latter used to reconcile the film continuity with that of the series.

Does he count as a Dr. in his own right? If he does he makes the latest reincarnation the 12th.

And to add further confusion the Daleks portrayed in the poster advertising the first film were used as the basis for the latest version of them.

[SaberBlade]

Cushing is just a bigger named actor to play First for movies. He's no more an official Doctor than Richard E. Grant, who voiced/looked like the character for BBC webisodes a few years back.

[DigiFluid]

Peter Cushing doesn't count as an official Doctor. Those movies are adaptations of the First Doctor stories "The Daleks" & "The Dalek Invasion of Earth".

It's a little like the James Bond movie "Never Say Never Again". It's re-adaptation of "Thunderball" and not counted as part of the franchise proper.

[Billz]

Here's a little question for clouding the issue with.

In 1965 and 1966 two Doctor Who movies were released, both involving the Daleks, in which The Doctor was played by Peter Cushing. Several others were planned but never made, and his character also appeared in several comics and books, the latter used to reconcile the film continuity with that of the series.

Does he count as a Dr. in his own right? If he does he makes the latest reincarnation the 12th.

And to add further confusion the Daleks portrayed in the poster advertising the first film were used as the basis for the latest version of them.

Seeing as how Peter Cushing's Doctor was actually portrayed as a human scientist (his character name was actually Dr Who ), he doesn't count as an official "regeneration". Those movies are fun though.

A full regeneration only counts when the physical body is changed due to cell's reorganizing themselves. Since the 10th Doctor's first regeneration was only to heal himself and then syphoned off into 'Handy', it doesn't count as a full regeneration.

Ergo, Matt Smith is the 11th Doctor. Not the 12th Doctor.

Case closed. Thanks for playing.