Dr River Song Speculation/Discussion ( Spoilers needed for S6/32 discussion)

[knowles2]

I think RTD would need to know where the character and her relationship with the Doctor was going, as he was the showrunner at the time. I'm not sure if he'd need to know everything, assuming Moffet had everything already planned out. I guess it would really depend whether or not RTD had decided he'd be leaving when River was introduced.

That said, River could be Moffet's version of Jack. Jack once said he was called "the face of boe" yet RTD won't confirm the link because it removes the "what if" fun of it. River and all these husband/wife comments and suggestions could just be Moffet screwing around and it turns out she's his mother.

Now that could be fun.

Anyone thinks she may be the lady at the end of the last series who always kept her face hidden behind a mask, when the master bought back Gallifrey. Always wondered show she was. An I seem remember her having the same skin colour as River.

[knowles2]

[QUOTE=Puddle-Jumper;11680383]

[*]Okay so that guy in the library called them an old married couple and river's face dropped because?

May be she dillusional only pretended to be married to the doctor or perhaps they were never married but told everyone they were for some reason.

[*]And the writers put that bit in the angels episode where Amy asks him if River is his wife and he yes... because?

Answered that one already. Keep up.

[*]and the bit at the end of the big bang with the doctor asking if shes married was there because?

May be the doctor notice the hints so far an was pushing for a bit more information. May be he just was curious or may be Moffat just having fun with the fans.

Writers don't put things like that in for fun, especially the likes of Steven Moffet, he's said that shes not what she seems, which is something anyone watching the show can see, even if shes not the doctors wife, the doctor obviously has huge respect/love for her in that so far we've seen that he has no real problem with her carrying a gun, or messing with timelines or going to jail for murder.

I seen got writer put stuff for fun in to stories all the time, especially to lead fans an people to the conclusions so that when the truth is reveal it even more shocking an surprising for the audience.

Actually she has not mess with the time line an takes care not to mess with future events an timeline. Which probable earned her some points in the future.
I also would not be surprise if everything she has done so far an all her interactions with the doctor has been agree with the doctor before, except the Library events.

Russel T Davies described her as "one of the most important characters we've seen in the series"

And, just because she important, does not mean she the docs wife.

Yes the other stuff can be explained away, but Im going to go with Occums Razor here in that the simplest explanation is the correct one. And plenty of your explanations for the others things are a bit of a stretch, yes other companions have kissed the doctor, but the way River said "when your older" hints to more then that, the same with the handcuffs, and in general she speaks to him as an equal in a way that no other companion has

Yes she does speak to him as a equal, perhaps she from a era where the Human race came close to reach Time lord level of technology an knowledge an thus certain members of such a society would be equals to a time lord or pretty close. So may be she is just a equal for the doctor in that sense/
I do not think Occums Razor works to well when you dealing with a made up universe, where writers can change things on a whim or lead there audiences up force alleys, so the surprise twist is even bigger in the future.
Like her being the doctor mother for instant, now that would be a twist an a shock for a audience convince she his wife.

[Puddle-Jumper]

May be she dillusional only pretended to be married to the doctor or perhaps they were never married but told everyone they were for some reason.

Seriously? Thats laughable.. Oh she only thought shes the doctors wife cos shes a dillusional compulsive liar.. ya thats great writing

Answered that one already. Keep up.

Where?

May be the doctor notice the hints so far an was pushing for a bit more information. May be he just was curious or may be Moffat just having fun with the fans.

Perhaps, but at this stage, he's not just having fun with the fans, this has being teasing us for years, Im very confident that theres more to her then we know, but still at some point shes his wife.

I seen got writer put stuff for fun in to stories all the time, especially to lead fans an people to the conclusions so that when the truth is reveal it even more shocking an surprising for the audience.

True, but whatever it is, remember at the end of her timeline the doctor still has to trust her and love her enough for the events of the library to take place.

Actually she has not mess with the time line an takes care not to mess with future events an timeline. Which probable earned her some points in the future.
I also would not be surprise if everything she has done so far an all her interactions with the doctor has been agree with the doctor before, except the Library events.

Well she graffitied the oldest cliff face in the universe, that established an entire legend throughout the entire universe, possible for billions of years.

And, just because she important, does not mean she the docs wife.

True, Im open to other suggestions, but at this stage the fact that its constantly being hinted at that they have some form of physical relationship what else could she be..

Yes she does speak to him as a equal, perhaps she from a era where the Human race came close to reach Time lord level of technology an knowledge an thus certain members of such a society would be equals to a time lord or pretty close. So may be she is just a equal for the doctor in that sense/
I do not think Occums Razor works to well when you dealing with a made up universe, where writers can change things on a whim or lead there audiences up force alleys, so the surprise twist is even bigger in the future.
Like her being the doctor mother for instant, now that would be a twist an a shock for a audience convince she his wife.

I didnt mean an equal in terms of technology, I mean in the way she speaks to him and acts around him, the "he thinks he's so hot when he does that", the "its how he keeps score I think its hilarious"
the I won't be there to catch you everytime etc etc thats just from the angels episode, theres plenty more.


And the doctors mother? ya my mom always makes incestous jokes about us too... (sarcastic of course)

Shes not the doctors mother or any relative, thats messed up

And I love to have a big twist, but if she ended up being the doctors mother then everything else about her wouldn't make any sense.... Im all for twists and turns in a plot, but only if they fit into the plot.

[pbellosom]

Well he'd want to, he was head writer back when she was first introduced back in 2008, not to mention Steven Moffat has probably constulted with him a few times over his plans as head writer...

Yeah, but I was under the impression that he was being massively spoilerphobic about Moffat's tenure

[Coco Pops]

Theres so many theories floating around i feel like i need to vent

Obviously theres the massive wife issue.
But it doesnt mean she is married to him.

Her being a timelord makes sense but just doesnt feel right. Her being the doctor also makes sense, but a female regeneration.
Also Rani and Romana would be exciting. But just seem wrong, unless she is a descendant of another companion of the Doctor.

The theory i like the most is that she is the child of the face of boe. Jack's Daughter, on sat 5 it said the face of boe had given birth and we know he can have children from CoE so that makes sense. She also has a great deal of knowledge from the Dr and is experienced in all kind of technology that is very jack not to mention having his gun and coming from the same time period. We dont actually know Jack's real name, because he stole the identity of a pilot so theres nothing in the sames that can disconnect them. Jack also went to the end of the universe with the Dr, and if he could pass on his memories when he finally evolves in to the face of boe, then he and the dr have thousands of years to travel together...plus Jack really explains the kink!

That makes sense to a point..... But what about this business of River knowing the Doctor's real name...... Jack wouldn't know that so how did that hppen?

[Galileo_Galilee]

Hmmm.... just to throw another possibility that, to my knowledge, no one else has thought of....

Spoiler:

She could be his sister. While there are no clues to this effect, sometimes clues are dropped to distract and mislead the viewers. And after all, we don't really know anything about his biological family.

[Coco Pops]

Hmmm.... just to throw another possibility that, to my knowledge, no one else has thought of....

Spoiler:

She could be his sister. While there are no clues to this effect, sometimes clues are dropped to distract and mislead the viewers. And after all, we don't really know anything about his biological family.

I like this idea

[Coco Pops]

A nice bit of side trivia for the actress Alex Kingston too in that she plays a character in SVU called Miranda Pond and I just think that is so neat that there is yet another water association and on a totally different show.

[padr49904]

Could River be Jenny.

Sorry if someone already posted this but I was just wondering as I was watching the ep with the angels and them talking about if she is his wife.

Jenny was alive and leaving in the shuttle and then we hear nothing about her, the Doctor and River connect like only family or a wife could.

Jenny was told by the Doctor though not to use guns and River seemed to use one sometimes but not on anybody alive.

Anyone else think this could be who she is?

[Pharaoh Atem]

Could River be Jenny.

Sorry if someone already posted this but I was just wondering as I was watching the ep with the angels and them talking about if she is his wife.

Jenny was alive and leaving in the shuttle and then we hear nothing about her, the Doctor and River connect like only family or a wife could.

Jenny was told by the Doctor though not to use guns and River seemed to use one sometimes but not on anybody alive.

Anyone else think this could be who she is?

if it's jenny then the line about kissing each other in the future is interesting

[Coco Pops]

Could River be Jenny.

Sorry if someone already posted this but I was just wondering as I was watching the ep with the angels and them talking about if she is his wife.

Jenny was alive and leaving in the shuttle and then we hear nothing about her, the Doctor and River connect like only family or a wife could.

Jenny was told by the Doctor though not to use guns and River seemed to use one sometimes but not on anybody alive.

Anyone else think this could be who she is?

She did kill a Dalek and that's a living thing.. Kind of..

[padr49904]

Yeah but the Doctor has killed millions of Daleks so she might of thought it was alright with him.

[Davidtourniquet]

As I've said to my friends, whatever we think of for the identity of River, it'll be something completely different.

[Colonel Forte]

Been a while since I posted here but I think this a perfect reason to make a return.

Not sure if this has been debated much, I just finished watching an episode and it got me thinking.

In "The Girl in the Fireplace", written by current Doctor Who show-runner Steven Moffat, the Doctor appears to Renette at various times in her life, believed to be an imaginary friend until he appears to her again after she's grown up some which of course I likened to Doctor 11's introduction to Amy Pond. Then later when the Doctor mind melds (or whatever you call it) with her she comes to know him better than most because she is able to enter his memories when he enters hers.

Now, River claims to know the Doctor's true name, going so far as to claim she knows him better than anyone in her first appearance in "Silence in the Library." She (River) makes mention in the two parter "Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone" that while she and the Doctor keep meeting, they do so out of chronological order, something that the episode "Blink" and "The Girl in the Fireplace" show us is one of those things that Steven Moffat likes to play with.

Finally, the cracks in time of 11th Doctors first season are connecting pieces of the universe that aren't supposed to be connected, much like the time windows of "The Girl in the Fire Place". The Doctor mentions in that episode and several episodes of the latest season that that sort of thing could destroy the universe.

Finally, at the end of the episode "The Girl in the Fireplace" though she dies, in the letter she leaves for the Doctor she says "reason says I shall not see you again but I have learned not to listen to reason." The Doctor can't cross his own timeline but we know he felt extreme guilt for not making it back to her, so perhaps by accident he returns to her before her death, like maybe the exact moment before she's supposed to die. She was 43, just about the right age. Maybe he knows how to cure her. See where I'm going with this?

So perhaps, and of course I can't possibly guess at the mechanics of it obviously, somehow Madam de Pompadour is River Song, through a combination of time windows (which is how she's so future-tech savvy) and TARDIS travel. Just a thought.

[DigiFluid]

Regenerated Jenny.

There, I said it.