Torchwood to be Doctor Who replacement?

[ecchi]

This is pure speculation, but is it likely that the BBC is trying to prep Torchwood for bigger international sales / exposure, i.e. as a package with Doctor Who, and they're worried it might be a little too adult to seal the deal?

They could easily A/B/C it (shoot questionable scenes three times, one version "full on" one suitable for more restrictive areas, and one for very restrictive areas). That used to be very popular in the 1970's in the British film industry. Although back then Britain got the B reel (slightly censored, but not extremely censored). As a collector of old Z grade British movies you have no idea what a struggle it is to track down a video or DVD of the A reel (full version).

It is a bit more expensive to do things this way, but there are only a few scenes in Torchwood where they would have to do it, so it should not be too much of a problem.

[Pitry]

Much of Europe (with a few exceptions) is as liberal as British TV, or more liberal in some cases, so you should have no problem there. Middle East TV I know nothing about, but I thought in general the area was a little tight arsed about these things.

But how can you tell if it is edited? For example in episode 2 of season 1 most of the world lost the scene of the security guard masturbating while watching the two people having sex in the toilet on his CCTV monitor. It did not detract from the plot, so you would not have realised there was something missing, and it was only about 15 seconds long, so the running time would have been the same since they round it to the nearest minute. And there are no doubt plenty of other scenes like that, that have gone but are unnoticeable by their absence!

Well, peopleare tight arsed here, btu the television doesn't seem to have noticed.
As for knowing they didn't cut anything... erm... I'm a very impatient girl. Very.

[Reefgirl]

The only editing that is done to make Torchwood family friendly is to tone down the violence, I'm assuming here I've never seen an edited version but it's not like Jack and Ianto are at 'it' every episode so I doubt they're editing it for gay sex either, most kids don't turn a hair over a gay kiss, I know my daughter doesn't freak over it, neither do I or my mum. On average I'm guessing that the Family Friendly version is only a couple of minutes shorter than the Full Fat version. IMO all this about Torchwood being 'dumbed down for the kiddies' is a complete waste of energy as I've said before, wait until the BBC confirm or deny a rumour before you start panicking. Again As far as I know the BBC send out the Full Fat version of Dr Who and Torchwood and let the individual countries do the editing, one country may be ok with Gay kissing and another may be a bit funny about it

[ecchi]

The only editing that is done to make Torchwood family friendly is to tone down the violence, I'm assuming here I've never seen an edited version but it's not like Jack and Ianto are at 'it' every episode so I doubt they're editing it for gay sex either, most kids don't turn a hair over a gay kiss, I know my daughter doesn't freak over it, neither do I or my mum. On average I'm guessing that the Family Friendly version is only a couple of minutes shorter than the Full Fat version. IMO all this about Torchwood being 'dumbed down for the kiddies' is a complete waste of energy as I've said before, wait until the BBC confirm or deny a rumour before you start panicking. Again As far as I know the BBC send out the Full Fat version of Dr Who and Torchwood and let the individual countries do the editing, one country may be ok with Gay kissing and another may be a bit funny about it

Actually there is little editing for violence, mostly it is sex and gay content. The sex I can survive without, but to satisfy some markets they would have to have no overt mention of homosexuality, even the scene in Dr Who where Jack kisses Gwen and Ianto would have to go (he could kiss Gwen, but not another man), and that would basically change the background story of the plot.

Also if you edit out gay kisses but leave in the hetero ones, you are pandering to homophobia.

As to your comment "most kids don't turn a hair over a gay kiss" I'm afraid you need to talk to more kids. You have been lucky with your daughter. A large percentage of kids think homosexuality is wrong, and a good few of those consider it evil. However it is not the kids that matter, it is the parents. And to give you an example of how parents think, I was caught in the middle of an argument about allowing gay men into the Army, and I thought I had the perfect answer with a point (which I won't bore you with now) that finished by showing that we would be easy to invade if we stopped all gay men from signing up. Every single person in the room agreed with the person I was talking to when he said "They would rather Britain be ruled by Hitler than have gays in the army." That is the sort of arsehole thinking that will get Torchwood edited.

Remember, when it was first announced that RTD was bringing back Dr Who, a lot of papers said "Great that Dr Who is back, but don't let a gay man run it".

And Don't forget that when Queer As Folk was first broadcast, most newspapers called for the disenfranchisement of Channel 4, and the Sun (Britain's most read paper, which gets it's readers by printing what they wanted to hear) called for RTD to be executed !!!!!

[Sealurk]

I don't think it's panicking, exactly, just speculation. I started the thread because I'd heard the rumour, and wondered if others had...and they have, and now we're discussing the potential implications and reasons - IF it's true. Nobody here has actually done any OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! The Beeb are neutering Torchwood!! How can they do this? I love Gwen!! We need to start a petition!!!

Ahem. Sorry, got a bit carried away - no offence intended to anybody. Besides, I'm English and proud of it - stiff upper lip and all that, what?

[Reefgirl]

Actually there is little editing for violence, mostly it is sex and gay content. The sex I can survive without, but to satisfy some markets they would have to have no overt mention of homosexuality, even the scene in Dr Who where Jack kisses Gwen and Ianto would have to go (he could kiss Gwen, but not another man), and that would basically change the background story of the plot.

Also if you edit out gay kisses but leave in the hetero ones, you are pandering to homophobia.

are you talking about here or the foreign market?

As to your comment "most kids don't turn a hair over a gay kiss" I'm afraid you need to talk to more kids. You have been lucky with your daughter. A large percentage of kids think homosexuality is wrong, and a good few of those consider it evil. However it is not the kids that matter, it is the parents. And to give you an example of how parents think, I was caught in the middle of an argument about allowing gay men into the Army, and I thought I had the perfect answer with a point (which I won't bore you with now) that finished by showing that we would be easy to invade if we stopped all gay men from signing up. Every single person in the room agreed with the person I was talking to when he said "They would rather Britain be ruled by Hitler than have gays in the army." That is the sort of arsehole thinking that will get Torchwood edited.

Ah the "Disgusted of Tumbridge Wells" Daily Mail readers

Remember, when it was first announced that RTD was bringing back Dr Who, a lot of papers said "Great that Dr Who is back, but don't let a gay man run it".

Really?? Where did you hear that?

And Don't forget that when Queer As Folk was first broadcast, most newspapers called for the disenfranchisement of Channel 4, and the Sun (Britain's most read paper, which gets it's readers by printing what they wanted to hear) called for RTD to be executed !!!!!

Ah, that explains why they do their utmost to spoil and generally 'Diss' Dr Who. No-one reads the The Sun, they only look at the pictures

I don't think it's panicking, exactly, just speculation. I started the thread because I'd heard the rumour, and wondered if others had...and they have, and now we're discussing the potential implications and reasons - IF it's true. Nobody here has actually done any OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! The Beeb are neutering Torchwood!! How can they do this? I love Gwen!! We need to start a petition!!!

It just amazes me how these rumours get started and how much they get twisted, I mean, someone out there could be reading the last couple of posts, get it into their heads that the BBC have given into the Anti Gay brigade and, to quote you, 'neutered Torchwood' and the next thing we know there's a rumour going round that in a bid to 'Straighten Torchwood' Ianto's getting killed off and Jack's going to marry Martha, then all hell breaks lose and the BBC have to break cover, I bet the producers are having a right laugh at all the rumours flying.

Ahem. Sorry, got a bit carried away - no offence intended to anybody. Besides, I'm English and proud of it - stiff upper lip and all that, what?

Absolutly, Tea? what about some crumpets?

[ecchi]

are you talking about here or the foreign market?

Somewhere way way back in this thread someone suggested that the BBC may begin censoring the British version so that it can be sold to the foreign market uncut. It is that post that I am talking about (so in answer to your question "sort of both").

Really?? Where did you hear that?

I read newspapers.
I also subscribe to a service that sends me an email about any reference to Dr Who in a newspaper (and now also Torchwood).

, that explains why they do their utmost to spoil and generally 'Diss' Dr Who.

Never seen them actually diss' Dr Who, and the reason they print spoilers is that a lot of people watch Dr Who, and are stupid enough to read spoilers (and also believe a lot of the fake ones the paper makes up when there are no genuine ones). The Sun has no agenda except to sell as many papers as possible. The anti RTD stuff was to pander to the large number of homophobic people in the country, but if those people suddenly became gay, the same paper would be publishing articles on the joys of buggery!

It just amazes me how these rumours get started and how much they get twisted

And bloody RTD does not help, spreading "misinformation", and sometimes just saying rubbish for the fun of it.

[Sealurk]

It just amazes me how these rumours get started and how much they get twisted, I mean, someone out there could be reading the last couple of posts, get it into their heads that the BBC have given into the Anti Gay brigade and, to quote you, 'neutered Torchwood' and the next thing we know there's a rumour going round that in a bid to 'Straighten Torchwood' Ianto's getting killed off and Jack's going to marry Martha, then all hell breaks lose and the BBC have to break cover, I bet the producers are having a right laugh at all the rumours flying.

Absolutly, Tea? what about some crumpets?

I say, rather! Spiffing! (You know, that word just doesn't get used enough these days. Sigh.)

You have a point about somebody catching the forum title or scanning a few posts and going off on one, but to be honest, that can't be helped.

Fact is, there are just people out there who will leap on something you say and run with it without checking it up, re-reading it to make sure they've got the right idea...nobody can help that, and I'm not going to let fear of some hysterical, reactionary fans screaming about the end of Torchwood stop me starting a (calm) discussion about what is unlikely to be the end of Torchwood as we know it!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Sometimes I'm so evil System Lords and Daleks alike cower from me.

[Sealurk]

The anti RTD stuff was to pander to the large number of homophobic people in the country, but if those people suddenly became gay, the same paper would be publishing articles on the joys of buggery!

Well...Page 3 would change dramatically.

[Reefgirl]

Somewhere way way back in this thread someone suggested that the BBC may begin censoring the British version so that it can be sold to the foreign market uncut. It is that post that I am talking about (so in answer to your question "sort of both").

I think that is highly unlikely, what may offend one country's moral code maybe perfectly acceptable to another, if the BBC did that Torchwood wouldn't geet beyond Ianto (in a chastity belt) serving coffee

I read newspapers.
I also subscribe to a service that sends me an email about any reference to Dr Who in a newspaper (and now also Torchwood).

Ah, that explains a lot

Never seen them actually diss' Dr Who, and the reason they print spoilers is that a lot of people watch Dr Who, and are stupid enough to read spoilers (and also believe a lot of the fake ones the paper makes up when there are no genuine ones). The Sun has no agenda except to sell as many papers as possible. The anti RTD stuff was to pander to the large number of homophobic people in the country, but if those people suddenly became gay, the same paper would be publishing articles on the joys of buggery!

If I get my hands on a copy of The Sun (usually out of bordem at work) I'll do the crossword and that's it, as someone said before, if The sun print's the truth about Dr Who it's usually by accident

And bloody RTD does not help, spreading "misinformation", and sometimes just saying rubbish for the fun of it.

Probably just seeing how gullible some people really are

I say, rather! Spiffing! (You know, that word just doesn't get used enough these days. Sigh.)

That's the truth donchaknow (I love Major Bloodnock from The Goons)

You have a point about somebody catching the forum title or scanning a few posts and going off on one, but to be honest, that can't be helped.

Sometimes I feel like posting something really preposterous just to see how many people will say "OMG they can't do that!!!"

Fact is, there are just people out there who will leap on something you say and run with it without checking it up, re-reading it to make sure they've got the right idea...nobody can help that, and I'm not going to let fear of some hysterical, reactionary fans screaming about the end of Torchwood stop me starting a (calm) discussion about what is unlikely to be the end of Torchwood as we know it!!!!

Me neither, sometimes you can't help but laugh at the OMG!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Sometimes I'm so evil System Lords and Daleks alike cower from me.

No worries, we all have a Dark Side

*Evil Cackle*

Well...Page 3 would change dramatically.

Hell, If they put naked men on page 3 I'd buy The Sun

[Sealurk]

That's the truth donchaknow (I love Major Bloodnock from The Goons)

Can't fault that taste. I was raised on The Goons, and Round the Horne. Make of that what you will - it probably explains my warped sense of humour...and reality.

No worries, we all have a Dark Side

*Evil Cackle*

Eeeeexcellent. It's nice to unleash mine every now and then, even if it does petty, childish things.

As far as the latest developments in the topic are concerned, the reaction by the British public (can't comment for any other country) to Torchwood when it was first revealed struck me as ridiculous, childish and quite a damning, revelatory blow as far as our supposed tolerant, open minded nation goes. Or maybe it's just The Sun again.

Just to put this in context, I'm male, I'm heterosexual, I'm in my late twenties and I have no (known) gay friends or family.

Anyway...why is series 3 going to be only five episodes long?

[Reefgirl]

Can't fault that taste. I was raised on The Goons, and Round the Horne. Make of that what you will - it probably explains my warped sense of humour...and reality.

So was I, I can speak Polari, fluently

Eeeeexcellent. It's nice to unleash mine every now and then, even if it does petty, childish things.

As far as the latest developments in the topic are concerned, the reaction by the British public (can't comment for any other country) to Torchwood when it was first revealed struck me as ridiculous, childish and quite a damning, revelatory blow as far as our supposed tolerant, open minded nation goes. Or maybe it's just The Sun again.

Just to put this in context, I'm male, I'm heterosexual, I'm in my late twenties and I have no (known) gay friends or family.

Anyway...why is series 3 going to be only five episodes long?

I didn't see any Anti Gay backlash, about the pilot episode, apart from the fact it was absolute crap, it probably way The Sun. As for series 3, probably a transitional thing

[Sealurk]

I didn't see any Anti Gay backlash, about the pilot episode, apart from the fact it was absolute crap, it probably way The Sun.

Might just be where I live then - very high concentration of Daily Mail and Sun readers here. But I definitely remember there being outrage and disgust at the amount of sex and violence in Torchwood, and even more at the fact that there would be gay characters.

[Reefgirl]

Might just be where I live then - very high concentration of Daily Mail and Sun readers here. But I definitely remember there being outrage and disgust at the amount of sex and violence in Torchwood, and even more at the fact that there would be gay characters.

Oh yes, I forgot about the Daily Mail readers buttoning up their cardigans and reaching for the computer to email their disgust at 'The 'Leftie' BBC corrupting the nations morals' with a gay caracter in a TV show

Set Julian and Sandy on them

[BritAngie]

Anybody else heard that Torchwood may be dumbed down and cleaned up so it can function as a Saturday night, prime time, family friendly replacement for when any given series of Who finishes its run?

If yes (or no, for that matter)...what's your reaction to the idea?

Personally, whether it's just the internet doing its usual or it is actually planned, I'd say it's a very bad idea. Torchwood thrives because it can do things Who can't.

Nope not heard that one. I do know the reduced number of episodes (5 being shown daily over one week) is as a result of the bbc losing a huge chunk of funding recently (due to a legal fight about other channels being entitled to some tv licence money) and coupled with being made to save cash anyway that most shows had to take budget cuts. Apparently David Attenboroughs life on earth team got the worst of the cuts but Torchwood's shows in it's curtailed season.

As BBC three is not available to those with analogue tv here in the uk- and that's probably still alot of peeps -I'd imagine they want to push it onto bbc 1 or 2 to get it out to a wider audience for the licence money they paid. Of course bbc 2 is the normal place for sci fi in beeb's eyes but I guess with doctor who's popularity (and that last years family friendly versions of torchwood appeared one bbc 1 ) they decided to capitalise on the crossover to get more viewers.

As for replacing doctor who-I can't see anything replacing it- and the general british public wouldn't go for it either. That would be like replacing the Queen with Amy Winehouse and hoping that people would find the new hipper queen better... Torchwood and SJA are just such different animals and rare ones at that. Spin offs from the show never ever worked in the past but they work because they are so different.