Originally posted by mappalazarou
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Torchwood- Owen Harper & his actions (spoilers)
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scarimor
fanfic etc. @ http://scarimor.livejournal.com/
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Originally posted by uknesvuinng View PostThat could very well be intentional. If it's some scifi-looking device, it's easy to compartmentalize and not be shaken by it. However, slipping her chemicals is something that could easily happen in reality (though probably not with the effect portrayed on the show) and it sticks with you a bit, giving you things to think about.
Which is a shame.
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Originally posted by smurf View PostI have to admit that to be honest, after seeing three episodes of the show (not the interviews/wikipedia articles) I don't believe there is that much depth to it. It would be nice to think everything is intentional, but like the whole Owen thing there slightly to much plot point hitting, and aiming for the fun aspect, IMO.
Which is a shame.
It's very possible that it's not that involved, but I'm going to hold out hope for now that it is. At the very least, I found something meaningful where there was no meaning, and it gave me something to think about. Good scifi should give you something to think about.Cogito ergo dubito.
"How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini
An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg
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Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett View PostBesides, the guy wasn't exactly Brad Pitt either was he?
Owen did intend to at least take the female home so what do people think he was going to do with her? I know sit up all night talking women's rights. We all know what he was after and if the boyfriend showing up put an end to it then fine, but it still does not make Owen's intentions any more honorable where the female was concerned.
I guess for me the question is, would the women have gone with Owen if the spray wasn't used? Seems she didn't even want to give him the time of day (with or without knowing she already had a bf) it seemed clear to me; but you know everyone is entitled to see something different.
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Originally posted by uknesvuinng View PostLet me live in my delusions!!!
It's very possible that it's not that involved, but I'm going to hold out hope for now that it is. At the very least, I found something meaningful where there was no meaning, and it gave me something to think about. Good scifi should give you something to think about.
Hey, I think Supernatural is a post-ironic take on road movies and teen horror. Well, that's my excuse.
I'd tweak your last sentence to "Good television should give you something to think about". I think that one of the most harmful things for many shows is to be treated as just scifi, something separate from the rest. Something I think, from the reviews I've read, Torchwood has suffered a little from.
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Originally posted by smurf View Post
Hey, I think Supernatural is a post-ironic take on road movies and teen horror. Well, that's my excuse.
I'd tweak your last sentence to "Good television should give you something to think about". I think that one of the most harmful things for many shows is to be treated as just scifi, something separate from the rest. Something I think, from the reviews I've read, Torchwood has suffered a little from.Cogito ergo dubito.
"How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini
An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg
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Originally posted by uknesvuinng View PostWell, not all TV exists to give someone something to think about. However, I think scifi specifically should, hence the distinction. Being science fiction shouldn't make it somehow not a TV show.
Unfortunately I do see a lot of "fun" being aimed for in sci-fi. I think making a specific distinction for sci-fi is not helping the genre's mainstream perception. To me good sci-fi is good television first and foremost, just saying a show is good sci-fi is, to me anyway, saying "well, I know it's not proper tv".
But this is off topic. So, as fascinating the topic of mainstream perception of sci-fi is, I shall desist.
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So, on topic: We can all agree at the least that Owen is a scumwad.Cogito ergo dubito.
"How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini
An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg
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Originally posted by scarimor View PostI'm waiting for Toshi to turn out to be a junkie now.
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Originally posted by smurf View PostWhy? What did she do?
ETa: if she does turn out to be one I'll be a tad embarrassed nowscarimor
fanfic etc. @ http://scarimor.livejournal.com/
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Originally posted by scarimor View PostOh nothing. I didn't mean to imply that she had, I was being a tad facetious But we've not had much about her yet, and the first stuff of note we seem to learn about any of them (exluding Gwen) is that they have a dark secret.
ETa: if she does turn out to be one I'll be a tad embarrassed now
Ten on Tosh being a Slayer.
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Originally posted by Willow'sCat View PostUm, what? I really don't understand what that has to do with anything.
Owen did intend to at least take the female home so what do people think he was going to do with her? I know sit up all night talking women's rights. We all know what he was after and if the boyfriend showing up put an end to it then fine, but it still does not make Owen's intentions any more honorable where the female was concerned.
Essentially, whether or not the teenaged girl was attracted to the boy was somewhat equivocal; but there were strong indications that even if she were, she would not agree to sex at this time.
Then, whether or not sex had actually taken place by the time they woke the next day with the other sleeping party-goers and went their separate ways was not equivocal either. For example, the girl didn't seem upset - but then if something took place she might not have remembered...
Much like this Torchwood scene with Owen, the point of revelation was not conventional, (e.g. do we have to see the threesome in a bed to know that they had sex? Do we have to see Owen speeding away alone in the taxi to know that he ran away instead?) It left the audience wondering or interpreting the scene differently depending on what they brought to the performance from their own views and experiences, and therefore debating how far the protagonists were prepared to go of their own accord, to what extent they were undermined, to what extent it mattered, etc.
It was interesting to listen to the observations afterwards. Just as with this scene, some people interpreted one way in the moment (they shagged), while others interpreted it the other way in the moment (they didn't), and a third much smaller group were "on the fence" in the moment - i.e. they absorbed the deliberate ambiguity as they watched and were left unsure. The resulting discussions did indeed focus on the rights and wrongs of what was/was not done.
I guess for me the question is, would the women have gone with Owen if the spray wasn't used? Seems she didn't even want to give him the time of day (with or without knowing she already had a bf) it seemed clear to me; but you know everyone is entitled to see something different.Last edited by scarimor; 22 February 2007, 07:10 AM.scarimor
fanfic etc. @ http://scarimor.livejournal.com/
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