Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[Willow'sCat]

Re: The spoiler in the above quote.

I don't recall the Face of Boe saying anything to the Doctor like that. Are you sure?

I think I meant to say End of the world... I am sure TFoB said it, someone with a better recoleccion might remember.

EDIT: Ah he didn't say it, must have been fanwank... it all blurs after a while. Well I still think

Spoiler:

it is to do with TFob and will probably come out in Doctor Who when Jack is there. I don't think RTD is going to let the two shows be that seperate, not if he can help it, and we already know TFob has something to tell The Doctor; and Jack has his little secret/s and those missing years to account for.

At least it adds to the interest if nothing else.

[ShadowMaat]

Hmmm.... Not quite sure what to make of this one. I did like it, but I also wish there had been more to it.

Spoiler:

Very emotionally-driven ep, but it's a shame it was all centered on a one-off character. The random trivia started to wear thin after a while, though it was a good illustration of the random useless sort of things that fill peoples' lives.

I REALLY REALLY wish they'd explain things just a bit more because the eye? Made no sense. Surely people don't have to DIE in order for the eye to work, so how did Elton- I mean, Eugene- manage to keep "living" after his death? And I don't think the eye worked towards helping him understand things as much as it being more an example of hindsight being 20/20. He could only put the pieces together after he died. And as was asked, how come he was still around after the eye was removed? And how come he randomly materialises again just in time to save Gwen? I mean, going on pop culture ghost lore he probably managed it because of his extreme emotions at the time or (if you go for the romantic approach) because there was something left for him to do, but that isn't enough of an explanation for me and it's pure fanwank.

And WTF was the glowy ascension bit at the end?? Grrrr.

I did like the ep. In some ways it reminded me of DW's Love & Monsters in that it's an outsider's POV, but where Elton's story was a silly romp with real monsters, Eugene's story was more tragic with no monsters (unless you include humans and their greed). Both are sort of coming-of-age stories although Eugene's epiphany came a little bit too late.


Also, is it just me or are they really driving home the whole "live life while you can because that's all there is" theme?

EDIT: Forgot to say, how in HELL do you perform an autopsy and manage to miss something as big as that eye in Eugene's stomach?

I have a feeling there'll be people who hated this ep because of its focus, but I liked it. I'm not very satisfied with the ending, but I was surprisingly caught up in the story.

[Flyboy]

Top rate ep imo! Bloody emotional! This is what love and monsters should have been.

Its 5:08am, so more later...

[Willow'sCat]

A few things first... they didn't do an autopsy, after they realised he died via a run of the mill accident they didn't need to do the autopsy. The Eye was to be inserted (I assume via an operation) into the persons back(alien) who owned it, so it was just a freak thing that by swallowing it he could see his past or whatever.

And yeah I thought Love and Monsters but I am so glad they did this episodes as Love and Monsters was one of my fave Doctor Who eps of the new series.

I loved the music in this, there can never be too much David Bowie but the Danny boy thing was a little OTT for me, but I guess at a funeral you can get away with that. Gwen was less annoying but Owen is right why is Gwen the one to get all emotional about this stuff? I loved the shoes, the title was great Random shoes! Also Ebay! LOL bidding 5 pounds or whatever too much, but you know on Ebay if the final bidder backs out it can go to the next in line so I don't understand why he (and his stupid friends) didn't just do that, other then the fact it would ruin the story.

I am glad for all his geekyness that he was still portrayed as kind of normal, too often (US TV in particular) goes for the lame stereotypes, this was closer to real life then that, and I think it works better and lets face it scifi shows have large geek type audiences so you really don't want to piss them off by going with lame stereotypes.

I didn't get or like the ending as much, don't understand how he can just be there in flesh and blood when he is a) dead b) cremated and c) DEAD! Oh well poetic license I guess.

Now next weeks looks interesting on the Jack front...

Oh I forgot the whole...alien wanting his body part back (hand in jar) *waiting, waiting, waiting*

[ShadowMaat]

Also Ebay! LOL bidding 5 pounds or whatever too much, but you know on Ebay if the final bidder backs out it can go to the next in line so I don't understand why he (and his stupid friends) didn't just do that, other then the fact it would ruin the story.

Well, he didn't know the high bidder was false until he went to meet his so-called mates. He was probably too shocked and betrayed to think of it. If he'd made it home, maybe he would've realized it.

Either that or we're meant to believe that as savvy as he is with researching alien stuff he doesn't know the first thing about ordinary stuff like ebay. Maybe his friends set up the account and auction for him (I mean, he had to be TOLD to include a pic and a better description) and they didn't feel inclined to tell him he could still get the money. Although I think he might have had an actual number after his ebay name, so maybe he's bought/sold stuff before.

[Fate]

Oh I forgot the whole...alien wanting his body part back (hand in jar) *waiting, waiting, waiting*

The hand in the jar is the doctors that he lost in the xmas special. Sorry only just worked it out

[ShadowMaat]

The hand in the jar is the doctors that he lost in the xmas special. Sorry only just worked it out

I think the point was that Jack is basically doing the same thing Eugene is- sitting around and waiting for the alien (in this case the Doctor) to come back and claim his body part. Good catch, too, 'cos I didn't pick up on that parallel.

[Albion]

Well, I absolutely loathed this one. I was bored all the way through, counting the minutes till I could switch off the DVD recorder. Which passed very, very slowly indeed.

There was a point where...Eugene, I think...said something about this all being very moving. I failed to be moved. It could have been very moving, it definitely had the potential to be poignant and emotional, but it was so badly written that it simply didn't invoke any sympathy in me for the characters at all.

Perhaps it didn't help that I really don't feel anything much for Gwen. I find her a completely uninteresting character, who I have no interest in seeing or learning more about. Eugene wasn't written well enough for me to feel sympathy for him, either. So there was no hook there for me to hang my emotions on. If the episode had been written by a cleverer author, perhaps I would have been moved. Or if it had been Tosh or Ianto or Jack who was running around investigating this one, maybe I'd have been more entertained.

The plot was...unintelligable is the kindest I can say. Things happened with no explanation - not even an illogical one. In particular the moment Eugene saved Gwen and briefly appeared before 'ascending'. Why did that happen? What was it that made him suddenly visible? Who knows? I don't think the writer did either. A lot of the plot seemed to be in the distinct 'Just ignore it and hope the viewers don't notice it doesn't hang together' category of writing.

By the time we got to his father singing Danny Boy, I had to turn the sound off on the TV. Boy, was that cringe-worthy. Urgh.

Doubt I'll watch this one ever again. I was so offended last night that this drivel was presented to the public as entertainment that I almost deleted the recording. Only reason I didn't is that I do so hate to break up a collection and have blanks in a recorded season.


Albion

[The Signal]

Not bad really, though the others were barely involved, Gwen was fulfilling her purpose on the show, and this episode was all about the side we don't see. Sure, every week they show what happens to people, how they die and what Torchwood does about it, but its what's left behind that remains a mystery. By showing it on this episode I think they achieved everything Love and Monsters intended to achieve, only this time it was a half decent ep.

There was a lot of emotion, which led this whole thing on, and then there was the semi interesting plot.

The funeral scene was quite brilliant IMO, the absurdity of "Oh Danny Boy" showed exactly what I believe it was meant to, the way his father was overcome with regret and emotion, and had to let it out in one way or another.

The only niggle I had, besides the semi-interesting plot, was the ascension at the end, personally, I would have had him disappear or fade away, not glow and rise into the sky.

7/10 - 1 off for the end, and 2 for the plot, which, while not bad, was reletively weak, only supported by the basic brilliance behind its purpose.

[Pitry]

Excellent episode! But hey, I loved Love and Monsters as well. I really love this kidn of episodes.

The ending ruined it a bit for me, tho. Not just the "make your life worth living" cheesy bit at the end, but the fact ugene was there. I realy enjoyed it throughout the episode, the way the played with "is Eugene there or not, is he real, was it aliens or not" - and it would have been so much better had the eye been a fake and he woudlnt''ve been there after all - as the centre of the story was exactly that it wasn't an alien, that the eye dopesn't matter - the focus was about his life. They should have kept it that way.

One otehr criticism - no mentino whatsoever of what happened at th end of Doctor Who's season 2. If the guy's looking for aliens fpr ages, he shoudl have commented - perhaps they didn't want it to be too much like Elton. Still, sometimes I'm bothered with the compelte and utter lack of cintinuity on both shows.

A lot of the plot seemed to be in the distinct 'Just ignore it and hope the viewers don't notice it doesn't hang together' category of writing.

I guess that's what I meant. TBH it's quite a strong motif of both Doctor Who and Torchwood. They make no sense whatsoever, and if you start poking holes in the script you'll end up with one huge hall, with perhaps bits of script inbetween. I learned not to mind it. Too much. But I agree, in here it was a bit too hard to ignore.

And the title, Random Shoes. Ha!

Yup, hand in a jar. I don't think it's by accident they mentioned that one. *Waits together with Willow*
*brings some ice cream in the meantime*.

Oh, what was that about categorising chevrons, BTW... bwahaha!

[MechaThor]

It was a cool episode. The guys two friends where funny in the little cheif like place. the happy cook i think it was. However i am sure the waitress at one point called it quote"The Happy Cock"unquote.

I wanted to see the alien the eye came from however.
Also i love the fact they guy seems to acend at the end. lol

[illspirit]

Torchwood is interesting, but I think it could be SO much better. They really are everywhere with the tone. Continuity seems to be an issue too. Eugene "ascended" to what appeared to be an afterlife, but in the previous episode it's established quite firmly that there is no afterlife in the Torchwood universe.

[Albion]

And the title, Random Shoes. Ha!

Funnily enough, the programme information given out by BBC3 claimed it was called Dead Man Walking. Guess that must have been an early production name for the ep. I think I prefer that to the pretentiously silly Random Shoes.

BTW, I adored Love and Monsters, so it's not the premise of focusing on a 'stranger' that put me off this one. I'm quite willing to go with that, if it's well written and focuses on intersting characters. This one did neither for me, I'm afraid.

Albion

[The Signal]

Continuity seems to be an issue too. Eugene "ascended" to what appeared to be an afterlife, but in the previous episode it's established quite firmly that there is no afterlife in the Torchwood universe.

So you assume its a continuity slip up? Perhaps your asumption of it being to the afterlife is wrong. Personally I think it was the conversion of the energy that held Eugene's consciousness to this plane of existance after his death into light, but when we know nothing about the biology of the Dogon species, we can't begin to speculate on what side effects the use of their sixth eye has on a person who has already died.

[Flyboy]

I personally work with the idea that there IS an afterlife, and it's what you make of it.

I think those brought back by the Risen Mitten didnt experience the afetrlife because they WERE brought back. And until they died for the final time, they wouldnt go there... it requires percieving the afetrlife with a different measure of time but still....