Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[ShadowMaat]

Is it just me or is Torchwood still not coming together as a series? Some of the individual parts are good and some of the storylines and characters hold a lot of potential, but it doesn't seem to have gelled yet.

Case in point: Ianto. Tonight's ep would have been a good way to show some of the fallout from Cyberwoman, but they only touched on it briefly before shoving it all back in a drawer and moving on to other things.

Jack? Is erratic. I can see how he'd be a bit twitchy after all he's been through, but he doesn't behave/react consistently. Maybe it's because the writers are concentrating too hard on keeping him aloof and enigmatic (which is another bad issue in itself), but whatever the reason, it's making him less fun to watch and I REALLY resent that.

Gwen? Also erratic. And stupid. And after tonight's ep, I lost what little respect I had for her in a way that means I will NEVER like her character. She's supposed to be our "in" to the series; our everyhuman identifying character. Right now I'd rather see her strung up on a meathook and left in the hot sun for the maggots to eat.

As for the episode itself...

Spoiler:

Even ignoring the MASSIVE disappointment at this being nothing but a town full of cannibals (and the similar disgust at it being something as ridiculous as a town full of cannibals) the ep didn't hang together. They do this harvest every ten years. Why? And why has no one noticed the disappearances before now? And what was with the elaborate ruse they pulled on Team Torchwood only to pop out playing Joe Villager later on?

The shoot-out scene was utterly ridiculous and went on for far, far too long.

And for a town that supposedly does this every ten years, they don't seem to be very good at it. Leaving random corpses rotting in random houses? And the basement? WTF was supposed to be up with that? Even if it only happens once a decade, it should still be a set routine for them. It should be organized and fairly clean. Even if they get off on the thrill of the hunt they aren't going to drop bodies wherever. It's nonsensical... and a waste of good meat.

If they were trying to go for a Texas Chainsaw-Massacre feel to the whole thing, they missed by MILES.

For all the "scares" in this ep, it was fairly empty and devoid of meaning. Cheap thrills don't really do it for me.

The previews for next week look similarly wary-making. I have a feeling there's going to be more inconsistency in character behavior.

One thing I did like about the ep (and it's probably completely wrong)

Spoiler:

was the bit about how Owen was the last person Tosh snogged. Someone somewhere suggested that Tosh might fancy Owen and for whatever reason I like the idea that she has some unrequited feelings for him. He's totally wrong for her (as he's totally wrong for anyone with a brain and a heart) but the silly hopelessness of it still amuses me.

Actually, I also found the bit with Ianto talking about Lisa to be... interesting. The whole, "you forgot" thing has boatloads of potential, I'm just not confident it will ever go anywhere. It does illustrate how the others view him, though.

Why was he there, anyway? He's never gone on a mission with them before (at least not that we've seen), so why now? Just afraid to leave him alone at the base or what?

I wish TPTB would get their acts together and sort this show out. I do still enjoy it, but it's a tremendously frustrating program.

[Fukurokuju]

Actually I think part of what makes Jack a fun character for me to watch is that he is aloof, enigmatic, erratic and not completely consistent. I would find him a bit boring to watch if he became predictable. I haven't had a chance to see the most recent episode so I don't know if something happens which will change my opinion of Gwen, but I've found her so far to be quite predictable. Haven't really had time to form a strong opinion on her though or any of the other characters.

[IMForeman]

If they don't kill Owen off post haste, I'm really considering dropping Torchwood.

[Chaka's_Mum]

It was a bit cliché-ridden, wasn't it? They even had the obligatory chase-through-the-woods-with-victim-stumbling-prior-to-being-recaptured and the other-members-of-the-group-find-a-police-officer-only-to-discover-he's-in-on-it-too, one. Dunno why; but, as someone that normally finds that sort of genre deeply unpleasant and who thus avoids it like the plague, even I watched it without any jumps or racing pulse. I even managed to sit through the gory bits (apparently they were 'gory bits' - or so the announcer said ) despite severe indigestion. I didn't heave once, or turn away, or grab something to hide behind.

Nice to see Owen Teale again, though - even with a mouthful of rotting teeth. Nice job by the makeup dept there, either that or he really needs to go see a dentist...

It was actually a bit of a change to see some real rage from Jack. Like others have said, he's been very aloof until now. His erratic behaviour is part of his very enigma. We have no idea what experiences have formed him other than what he chooses to reveal, or when circumstances force his hand. I guess, as time goes on, we'll start to figure him out a bit more. I think it's quite sweet that he still sticks to his trusty revolver despite the other members of the team carrying whopper sidearms. It looks like it never needs reloading too - no wonder he prefers it.

I suppose the 'no one noticing' thing was down largely to the isolation of the area coupled with the villagers' habit of only choosing people 'passing through who wouldn't be missed' - but did they ask first to check that these people wouldn't be missed ('excuse me, before I hack you up and eat you, could you just fill in this brief, but revealing, questionnaire?')?. The concept of leaving bits all around the village without causing consternation to the residents was probably because everyone was at it (and had already eaten those who weren't) and so wouldn't be disturbed by such things. I suppose the young bloke must have been too young to know what was going on the last time around, and has come back from wherever he's been to find the next one in full swing. Not a pleasant discovery...

And, does anyone else think Rhys really does need to find himself a better girlfriend, or is that just me?

Gwen and Owen? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Will there be ramifications for the team if this gets out? How will Toshi feel? Is it only a one night stand anyway? Do we even care?

Tune in next week to find out...

[uknesvuinng]

Gwen and Owen = Most Ridiculous Pairing ever. There's even less chemistry there than a Star Trek 'ship. Who wrote this episode? I didn't pay attention to that. He/she must be flogged within an inch of his/her life, nursed back to health, and flogged again.

Other things: Excepting Jack and Gwen, the Torchwood team has no sense of tactics. I suppose with Ianto that's understandable (someone explain why he was there again? Oh yeah, because they had to get him in the episode but they never went to the office). However, Toshi should have briefed him on the basics, at least. You never take your eyes off your partner, and you always stay within 5 - 8 feet. Of course, one would think they would all stay together until they got the SUV, then work from a centralized point so they wouldn't be so vulnerable.

I must admit I cheered when Jack and Gwen ran off and left Owen all alone. Sadly, the cannibals weren't in the right spot to end his annoying existence. I must congratulate TPTB on writing a character I can actually wish harm upon. Usually I can't be that bothered, but he's just that annoying.

Meanwhile, we have Gwen, who just a mere 3 episode ago, demonstrated that she had incredible love for Rhys. And now she's just gonna drop him for supposedly better sex with a guy she has no care for whatsoever? This whole episode was like a bad fanfic. Characters were either out-of-character, or a caricature of their normal selves. The plot was poorly executed and far too cliched. I'm tempted to email TPTB and suggest they never accept submissions from fanboys again.

I'd simply pretend this episode never existed, but this stupid Gwen/Owen crap will still be around to remind me. Someone must suffer for forever destroying a show I loved before it even had a chance to hit its prime. On the other hand, if the "fallout" from Cyberwoman is any hint, Gwen/Owen may never be mentioned again.

One can only hope.

[Madeleine]

Worst ep yet. The whole thing felt like I'd seen it all before, done by Supernatural or X Files or Dog Soldiers. I guessed the 'twist' - I mean, have they ever laid it on so thick with the talk about what kind of aliens are responsible, and all that stuff about the Rift. And I think that even if I hadn't guessed it I'd have found it very lame when I saw the reveal. Like Chacka's Mum said, it was cliché-ridden.

It felt a bit pointless. There was nothing that required Torchwood's special skills, and nothing at all SF or even Fantasy. Yet if it was a way of saying that the series is set in a version of the Real World it didn't do it well, picking such a story which was too far-out to be done in The Bill or Prime Suspect, say. And if it was to remind us that people can be worse monsters than monsters; yeah, we know, we read newspapers, now get back to SF please!

There were good bits. I know, cos I remember thinking 'that's good'. But I can't remember what any of them *were*.

Poor Rhys. I hope Gwen leaves him soon, I like her (less now than before she did the stupid with Owen) but I think Rhys is too ordinary and nice to be turned into one of those TV partner-is-married-to-a-dirty-and-demanding-job martyrs.

Then maybe we can hook Rhys up with the ill-served gf of some *other* TV copper/doctor/special agent/whatever

[The Signal]

I agree with all of the above statements concerning the ep, so its pointless me making any other points, but as for characters:

Jack: What are they trying to do with him? He started off well in this ep, but when it came to the would be torturing I was just baffled, have they seen Doctor Who? I'm guessing Time Agents are sort of wanabee Time Lords, so I doubt they'd torture people, and con-men aren't known for their torturing skills, so how about a little info on Jack's past? I'm begining to think they are making him up as they go.

Gwen: She's out of her comfort zone with Torchwood so she sleeps with Owen? I'm sorry but thats just weak storytelling IMO. I really don't care about her love life, and would be happy if it was never brought up again, but they are using it as the central point to her character, so am I to believe that that is all she is. As for her scene with the cannibal leader was SO cliched my eyes hurt from all the rolling.

Ianto: He had no real reason to be there, and after he and Tosh were taken he kind of faded out, once again, bad storytelling, if you have a character there, you have to keep them in the episode, don't fade them out like you forgot about them. It was however good to see that he still holds some resentment over Lisa's fate, and that he isn't over that.

Tosh: *yawn* Though next week looks promising, she had another dull episode only lit up by a couple of lines showing her attraction to Owen and Jealousy because of his and Gwen's actions in "Cyberwoman"

Spoiler:

I'm guessing with her abilities next week, she'll be a bit more jealous when she finds out what they got up to

.

Owen: Ashamed to say theres something about him I like (just to clarify: as a character, as a person I can't stand him). Perhaps its his conviction, he knows what he wants and he takes it, but he doesn't pretend to be something he isnt. I think he knows he's a slimeball, but he doens't really care, because that's who he wants to be, and while that seems terrible, it makes him better than Gwen (pretends everything is fine, but cheats on her boyfriend) and even Ianto (loved Lisa, but cared for her in secret) in my mind. I'm sure RTD has a predictable storyline about him and Gwen (not a bad coupling, it is what it is, sex, and not a "relationship" as such) developing, while she uses him he starts to actually care about her, and when that happens, I think Owen will lose part of what makes him a good character.

The thing I prefer about this show over DW is the lack of that big reset button, these people are human and won't forgive just because you say sorry, they hold grudges, feel sorry for themselves, and thats important IMO.

[Albion]

Well, I have to say that, to begin with, Countrycide was the first time I've actually been really engaged in an episode. It was creepy and mysterious and I was hooked. And then it all fell apart halfway through when it turned into just another cheap rip off of The Hills Have Eyes and a million other slasher movies.

And by the time we got the cop ('He's my uncle' - boy, never saw that one coming. <rollseyes>) I was so frustrated with the sheer stupidity of the crew I wanted to throw something through the TV. Have none of them ever watched a horror movie? If they had they'd have recognised the cliches in their situation long before we got to the end titles and never been fooled by that crap.

Before it all went wrong into the boring cliched episode from oblivion, there had been some nice character stuff that I enjoyed, but it wasn't enough to rescue this one for me.

I have lost all respect for this lot. Gwen in particular. The last couple of episodes - Cyberwoman especially - she's been dumb as a post. But it hardly seems that the rest of them are any smarter.

What a let down. I'm especially irritated by this one because I can see that it could have been a great episode. With just a little more imagination in the plot and less of the making the characters dumb to make it all work. Which is becoming something of a trend.

I'm not sure I like the Owen/Gwen ship. But I do understand why Gwen has gotten there and her motivations. Doesn't make it right, mind. And still find myself saying poor Reese. It's about way past time Gwen put him out of his misery.

Still watching, still recording. But it's still not coming together for me and unless it does soon, I'm going to rapidly lose all interest, I'm afraid.

BTW, when the bad guy drove off in the Torchwood SUV, I fully expected someone to whip out some kind of remote device that would shut down the engine. All that alien tech etc at their fingertips and they can't find some way to stop their vehicle being stolen? Perhaps something to think about installing for the future, Jack?

Albion

[Pitry]

Jack - I'm pretty sure he's human. He holds ghimself to differnet standards than, let us say, Gallifrey. I can see him being a torturer, actually....
And I actually enjoyed him in this episode. It did add to his mystry. It's hard to keep a main character on the mysterious act, but so far they've been doing a good job. When they're not contradicting themselves, that is. I'd like them to keep Jack a mystery, but manage to keep him a character, rather than a handful of things that migth sound good on a character's resume.

As for the rest of the episode.. Well it wasn;t that bad. Cliche ridden, definitely. And quite, quite ridiculous - I never enjoy horror films, probably because they're mostly cliche ridden and silly. And it was definitely silly... but it had it's moments.

I really liked Ianto in here. As Shadow said, the whole "you forgot" - it's a good reminder that there's still some leftovers from the whole Lisa incident, that not everything's gone adn forgotten... I think I, generally, really like Ianto. The whloe "who did you kiss" scene was actually quite well done.

Gwen and Owen, don't get me started. Even had I not known this was coming, it was pretty obvious. I'd like them to actually give an explanation otehr than physical attraction, tho, Gwen made it pretty clear he's not her type and that she loevs Rhys. Or at least resovle that issue!

Tosh was... I dunno. Tosh. So far they haven't spend enough tiome onh er, I really can't say what this episode gave her. If you're already oing a horror-movie episode, at least bother to have it give something to all your characters!

Once again, graphic violence/ disgusting thingies/ whatever. Okay, Torchwood isn't Doctor Who. Got it. RTD said himself in an interview that if you put tooo much blood and gore and sex in it you end up being a wannabe teenager and lsoe your entire point (well, not exactly that, I'm paraphrasing. But it was something similar) - to which I completely agree. So can he please take a leaf out of his own book and stop it? Other than being cvompletley digusting, about half of the blood'n'gore scenes served no purpose whatsoever and could have been cut out.
And I agree the gun thing was way too long. Which goes back to my comment about the gun scene from.. Day One was it? Time they stop oer-heroyfying (it's a word I tell you! It is!) violence. Put the violence in, but don't over glorify it, and don't make it so "pretty".

[Willow'sCat]

Well, that was different.

I think it did start well and it was interesting to see them out of Torchwood and with Tents *fanfic anyone?*

By the 20 minute mark it felt like I was watching an episode of "League of Gentlemen" without the creepy humour I half expected the village to be called Royston Vasey. And was I the only one to think they were going to shoot each other the way they were fling those guns around? It just looked silly.

Plus side, continuity is not lost completely in Torchwood like some other shows I could mention, although a little more sympathy for poor Ianto would have been nice. Gwen/Owen makes me happy if only because it gets away from Jack/Gwen *lead character shipping* and I can understand why she is stupid enough to do this although I didn't need them to point that out to me as if I was a child... I do like Owen, he is still a prat but I like him as a prat.

The show is not really working for me yet, can't pin point what is so off about it, it is almost like they had a brilliant idea but were stumped when it came to making it real. I think the biggest problem is Jack, it is one thing to have a mysterious lead character when you don't really know anything about him but we knew him already from Doctor Who and I can't buy him like this, I don't care what he has been through as they haven't bloody told me, so all I can think is where is my lovely Capt Jack Harkness?

I do like the show but I am not holding out any longer for it to be better then it is. It is too hit and miss for me.

As a parody this show would rock!

[Flyboy]

Well, that was different.

I think it did start well and it was interesting to see them out of Torchwood and with Tents *fanfic anyone?*

By the 20 minute mark it felt like I was watching an episode of "League of Gentlemen" without the creepy humour I half expected the village to be called Royston Vasey. And was I the only one to think they were going to shoot each other the way they were fling those guns around? It just looked silly.

Plus side, continuity is not lost completely in Torchwood like some other shows I could mention, although a little more sympathy for poor Ianto would have been nice. Gwen/Owen makes me happy if only because it gets away from Jack/Gwen *lead character shipping* and I can understand why she is stupid enough to do this although I didn't need them to point that out to me as if I was a child... I do like Owen, he is still a prat but I like him as a prat.

The show is not really working for me yet, can't pin point what is so off about it, it is almost like they had a brilliant idea but were stumped when it came to making it real. I think the biggest problem is Jack, it is one thing to have a mysterious lead character when you don't really know anything about him but we knew him already from Doctor Who and I can't buy him like this, I don't care what he has been through as they haven't bloody told me, so all I can think is where is my lovely Capt Jack Harkness?

I do like the show but I am not holding out any longer for it to be better then it is. It is too hit and miss for me.

As a parody this show would rock!

My 2 pence...

I think Jack is amazing. I love the depth to his character that we're seeing.

[SoulSpinder]

I'm also going to stick out my neck and say that I actually liked this episode on a whole.

As Pitry said, I completely agree that it was full of cliches. At the same time, I don't watch a lot of "horror" movies because I find the majority of them cliche themselves, and usually end up groaning, rolling my eyes, or laughing at them. And in some of that respect, I think this episode was almost a pun to that form of entertainment. (The same way I find "Small Worlds" a commentary on our fairy tales.) And I give them my nods for that.

I think the purpose of Ianto being there, and this is expecially seen in the snogging conversation, is that they're trying to include him as part of the team more but are not quite getting there yet.

While Tosh and Ianto were 'faded away' that did bring up a point later on, though it might not have been the strongest.

On Jack being a torturer, I can believe that. He had some form of military-esque training even before he came to Who. It's possible that that particular part of his past was 'darker' then we know. Torturing could have been a 'side lesson, ' if you will.

On the Owen/Gwen "thing," I was personally jumping up and down grinning. We (or at least some of us) knew she was going to have an affair with someone, it was a question of who. And like someone here said, I think Owen's aware of how he is. This being said, I think Owen was the best possible choice for the story. (pretty obvious it's not long term, and Gwen was even having doubts then.)

I still feel horrible for poor Rhys. But from a preview from early/pre-Torchwood, I'm pretty sure the affair will be addressed/concluded.

Spoiler:

There's a part in that commercial where Gwen's hanging onto someone, crying, and saying: "Say you forgive me."

Whoever said the ep reminded them of "The Hills Have Eyes" ... the declassified file stated that it was an inspiration of sorts. *L* Maybe too well done?


All and all, I still say someone's a "The Silence of the Lambs" fan. (The long cooridors/entering of Gwen. The actions when Gwen meets the Weevil. Now cannibals.) Which makes me happy. ('Silence is one of my three fav. films.)

[Pitry]

I think the purpose of Ianto being there, and this is expecially seen in the snogging conversation, is that they're trying to include him as part of the team more but are not quite getting there yet.

I kind of liekd how much he was misplaced in there. That part, at least, rang true - at some point, while they (=Torchwood staff) may not keep at a consciuos level what happened with Lisa, they remember enough to know that they need to be a bigger part of Ianto's life, that they shoudln't take him for granted. It comes off awkward - ebcause they're not used to it, because they're too used to look at Ianto as someone who's just being there, rather than an actual person - and so that part of the group relationship comes off just right.

I think the biggest problem is Jack, it is one thing to have a mysterious lead character when you don't really know anything about him but we knew him already from Doctor Who and I can't buy him like this, I don't care what he has been through as they haven't bloody told me, so all I can think is where is my lovely Capt Jack Harkness?

Mmm... I guess my view is c ompeltely different - since I didn't like him that much in Doctor Who, I don't mis that much that Jack Harkness. I enjjoy this one more, the mysterious, slightly darker, much less wannabeish type. They should settle that contradictino, no doubt - he's still the same Jack and some of it should come out, sooner or later - but as a character, I'm fine with him the way he is.
Mayeb we need a guest appearance by the Doctor to finally get it? It'll allow Jack to be mysterious all he wants, and then... it'll also prolly get hi fanboyish side out.
*hopefull*

[Willow'sCat]

I am seeing Jack as anything but mysterious or dark he is aloof/uncaring. Or rather I feel they (tptb) are so screwed up with knowing how to write him he comes off as not caring even when they are trying to put those types of words in his mouth.

*shrugs* I guess I should have known he wouldn't be 'my' Capt Jack but I was hoping he would be just as good, but he isn't working for me atm... I am willing to wait and see but I am even more eager now for him to get back to the Whoverse.

[Pitry]

I am seeing Jack as anything but mysterious or dark he is aloof/uncaring. Or rather I feel they (tptb) are so screwed up with knowing how to write him he comes off as not caring even when they are trying to put those types of words in his mouth.

*shrugs* I guess I should have known he wouldn't be 'my' Capt Jack but I was hoping he would be just as good, but he isn't working for me atm... I am willing to wait and see but I am even more eager now for him to get back to the Whoverse.

I don't think he comes off as uncaring. Cold, definitely. But that woudl be expected from someone who knows the reality of things. He doesn't haev a lot of hope in him, he isn't the optimist, is he? He knows that there are htings that have to be done, and that he's the one that has to do them - a bit like Small Worlds, really. Someone had to do it. Someone had to realise that since you can't ight the faeries, the only defense the world has is to play along to their rules... and he ended up being ostracised by his team for it - they liv the life, but they don't understand the rules of the games. For them, he's also uncaring/ aloof at times. But I don't think that was the message. Which i why I'd really like to see an episode that gets into Jack's psych - how does he live with the fact he's the one to do those things, he's the eecutioner not by choice but by the fact that there's no one else?
Could be an interesting episode, if they ever do it.

But yes, it'd be interesting to see how he reflects in Doctor Who again (I guess I don't think of them as different universes, rather as differnet uptakes on the same universe. He'd have to still be him, but some of the darkness that's supposed to be in his character will have to be translated in differnet ways. Which is why seeing the Doctor in Torchwood interests me even more - there's a lot of darkness in the Doctor, I think. And it's presented in a very subtle, very easy way, at times, in Doctor Who. Taking that character into the Torchwood enviornment would allow - while not destroying who the Doctor is and the essance of his character - to present a face of him you can't actually see in Doctor Who. If written correctly. A big if.)