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Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

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    Well look, an ep I wasn’t let down by seeing as how badly I wanted to see this one. I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

    First, though, I’ll do my three nit-picks (not major flaws or anything). We’re simply going to ignore that the lock opener is the information scanner. We’re also just gonna chuckle at Ianto’s “Tanasaki-san” as it might have been for the audience. (For those unfamiliar with the language, Tanasaki-sensei would have been more appropriate given that Ianto later addressed him as Dr. Tanasaki. And they didn’t seem overly familiar with one another, more business.) Third was the cinematography seemed a little, well, wobbly at times.

    One important thing to remember about this ep, I think, was actually the very beginning. From the get-go, Ianto was talking/reminding that “it” was a “she.” He had never, for a moment, thought of her as anything else. This is also a handicap because I think he’s told himself that so many times he can’t believe she can’t be saved-he’s had to tell himself this.

    Right after Lisa killed the doctor, Ianto started to tell her himself that if she ‘did it again’ that he would have to incapacitate her at the least. But he couldn’t finish the sentence then. I think that’s mirrored in the scene at the end. Like Signal said, he knew what he had to do, but he couldn’t.

    On the opposite end of the coin I think this really sets in firmly Jack’s character. Even in the beginning he would only take ‘ten seconds’ to finish what they were doing before following up on something routine. He takes his ‘job’ so seriously he DOES forget ‘human’ aspects.

    I think this is where the ‘monster’ comment comes in. I think a lot of us have felt like Ianto knows something about Jack that we don’t. He could still simply know about his immortal aspects. He could be referring to the fact that he has this gift of life but he wont/can’t help Lisa that Jack won’t even consider it.

    Additionally the ‘inhuman’ changes to Lisa were and advance of science. Jack is just abnormal.

    Another thing I loved was the short “conversation” between Jack and Ianto.
    “I’m not giving up on her. I love her. Can you understand that, Jack? I mean, have you ever loved anyone?”

    If you just watch the way it’s spoken and Jack’s reaction shots. It was almost like Ianto knows the answer to that question and was trying to pull the string only it backfired worse than he hoped.

    I do think there was a missing scene. But I think Ianto not being booted has a lot to do with the fact that I think Jack, and the others, DO understand on some level the situation Ianto was placed into.


    Sorry for the insanely long rant. Good think I have to go to class or I might make you all suffer more.
    "Scientists say juggling is good for the brain....Or...was that...Jelllll-o?

    Comment


      Something on the monster thing- which is worse, some artificially generated monster or vampire or bog monster or whatever... or someone who's fully human but does inhumane things? I'm not making judgements about the people on Torchwood, mind you, it's more of a general question. For instance, I though Cain on BSG was much more of a "monster" than the cylons have been. Granted, Lisa was human at one time, but I think the upgrade pretty much washed away whatever humanity she had left. Though it did add a good creep factor in her attempts to emulate being human again. Yick.

      In the scene where Ianto is hiding the body of the doctor, was that another body behind him wrapped in the canvases? Or was it just my imagination working on a natural lump?

      I had something else, but a customer interrupted and I've forgotten. *grumble* Some day I'll remember...

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        I'm enjoying the show, but I can't help feel that it could be better. Two problems:

        (1) Lack of story focus. Episode 3 (don't remember the name) should of centred around Owen more. It just got a little confused with Gwen. Didn't seem like it had a focus on one character.

        (2) Directing. Whoever is Directing these episodes needs to get with it. I really didn't feel scared last night and the camera direction was so plain at times. Just something with a little more energy to it. It kind of feels like they're trying to do grand on a show that's nor meant to be grand.

        Maybe it's just me. I really want this show to do well because I think it has alot of potential, but it just keeps disapointing me in areas that seem really obvious.


        Oh and can somebody please give Jack a better gun. It looked like he was threatening Ianto with a toy pistol last night.

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          I assumed Jack's pistol was like so much else about his "current" life: a holdover from the 40's. It might look silly, but it's in keeping with the character, IMO.

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            Originally posted by ShadowMaat View Post
            In the scene where Ianto is hiding the body of the doctor, was that another body behind him wrapped in the canvases? Or was it just my imagination working on a natural lump?
            I thought I saw something like that dumped there too. And it's not the first time a corpse just seems to show up dumped in the background.
            scarimor

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              Good ep, albeit a little overly drawn out. My main complaint is that there's a bit of a plot-hole, or at least a moment where the characters got stupid. If they have a device that can open any door in 45 seconds then why didn't they open the door to the weapons store and just shoot the hell out of her?

              Other than that, good ep (although the idea of Gwen/Owen is kinda.... wrong.)
              Don't you want to look beyond the horizon?

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                Looks like Ianto's section of the Torchwood Hub has been updated. Interesting snippets. Particularly the counseling and the "coffee" chat. Wish the latter had gone into a bit more depth, but oh well. Some pics of him with non-cyberised Lisa. She's very pretty.

                There are also some "reports" on the Fall of Torchwood-1. Ye gods...

                Comment


                  Oh... wow.

                  Just this minute finished watching the episode and BY GOD IT WAS GOOD!

                  As some body who has watched Classic Who episodes with the Cybermen, I feel that this came far closer to emulating the feel of those old eps than the New Who Cyber eps EVER did.

                  The sense of horror of what the cyberman (still refuse to use the term cyberwoman) was, the horror at what it did. All of it was perfect, it FELT dangerous in a way that the New Who ones never did. That was the perfect continuation of the Cybermen story and I loved it.

                  Ianto, my God, what a wonderful episode for him. I felt for him, I really did, I knew exactly why he was doing everything. To see someone you love.. become something different... to rationalise it, to explain it, to yell at yourself just to try and convince yourself that it wasn't her fault... she's still the same. I understood. But finally... when she was in the Pizza Girl's body... I just found myself saying under my breath "shoot her. shoot her." It was the ultimate evidence that his girlfriend was gone. No human would do that.

                  As for everything else, I think all the charcaters interacted perfectly and I'm very impressed with all of it.


                  "Five Rounds Rapid"

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                    Just gonna put this out there cos it's been bugging me, but did anyone else have a flashback to Empty Child in last week's ep with the boy on the trail platform? I was waiting for him to say "Mummy?" *shiver* Would have been an awesome nod, but oh well. Maybe they have other plans in store for him.

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                      Originally posted by ShadowMaat View Post
                      Just gonna put this out there cos it's been bugging me, but did anyone else have a flashback to Empty Child in last week's ep with the boy on the trail platform? I was waiting for him to say "Mummy?" *shiver* Would have been an awesome nod, but oh well. Maybe they have other plans in store for him.
                      *raises her hand* I looked over at my roommate and went: "....Kids are spooky in this 'verse."
                      "yesh...but it's not the same..."
                      "mummy?"
                      *roommate snickers*
                      "Scientists say juggling is good for the brain....Or...was that...Jelllll-o?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                        I got the impression that he was giving him his life *force* or whatever it is that makes Jack now immortal. Kind of like the whole Doctor/Rose thing *kiss* in PotW. I don't think it was meant to be CPR or anything.
                        Oops - I should have included a there, I think, or just possibly a . It wasn't actually a nit pick, just a facetious comment. I didn't think it was CPR either - the cardio bit was missing for starters...

                        Dammit - there I go again.

                        Originally posted by mentalmichael
                        If they have a device that can open any door in 45 seconds then why didn't they open the door to the weapons store and just shoot the hell out of her?
                        Actually, that's quite a good point! I suppose there is the problem of the general invulnerability of cybermen, and they're all fixated on that (or at least the ones who've come across cybermen before, anyway). After all, the chances are that they could blow up the base, and themselves, and CyberLisa could still simply dig its way out and keep on trying to upgrade. I dunno. We just don't know how much of her is still 'mortal', and whether it will be possible to stop the machine bits by destroying the 'not machine' bits.

                        Given that even the Pterosaur couldn't finish CyberLisa off, that seems quite possible. She was only really rendered vulnerable after she'd transferred her brain to the Pizza girl - so they offed her then instead.

                        But then, there's the 'TV' answer: why do the obvious when you can have 40 minutes of destructive mayhem, inappropriate snogs in mortuary fridges and lots of angry recriminations before everyone heads out to the pub for a well earned bevvy afterwards?
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                          Huh, I got those Empty Child flashes merely by the teaser

                          As for Cyberwoman, excellent episode! Loved it.
                          Yay @ more Ianto! Hooray!
                          Tho what kind of Ianto... eek.
                          I don't think he stills believes Jack was wrong and he was right. At the end, he didn't shoot her because he coudln't, not because he didn't want to - I thought it was rather telling he went, after they shot her, to the original blody, rather than the pizza-girl-body. He didn't accept it as a part of "his Lisa", and I think at some point he understood this also involved the murder of Pizza Girl.
                          If anything, it's more surprising he dind't quit, rather than be thrown ou by Jack. I agree he probably knows more aboutn Jack than the rest - the monster comment and the "love someone" comment, both were quite telling. I also hope it was left opened because they are going to refer to it in future episodes - it really did bug me in the first three of how background Ianto was, and I was pleasantly surprised to see how the character is aware of it, too. - and how sownig it was the rest of the characters didn't.

                          I stand by my original claim. Jack's in love with the Doctor.


                          I do wish, however, it woudl have been slightly less graphic... that scietist with the pole stuck out of his head and steel instead of an eye... eeeew.

                          Wonder what happened to the pterodactyl. If it dind't kill Lisa... why did it stop?

                          So, excellent episode. Really looking forward to next week's - are they going back to Empty Child?
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                            I really like the series so far but am I the only one who's wondering about all the random snogging? It's like they're just throwing stuff in there for s***'s and giggles. Gwen snogging the sexaholic alien chick, Jack snogging Ianto, Owen snogging random bar guy and girl. Owen snogging Gwen....it's like a drunken frat party. I don't really mind it one way or the other I'm just wondering why it's being thrown in there in pretty much every single episode.

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                              Originally posted by Shipperahoy View Post
                              I really like the series so far but am I the only one who's wondering about all the random snogging? It's like they're just throwing stuff in there for s***'s and giggles. Gwen snogging the sexaholic alien chick, Jack snogging Ianto, Owen snogging random bar guy and girl. Owen snogging Gwen....it's like a drunken frat party. I don't really mind it one way or the other I'm just wondering why it's being thrown in there in pretty much every single episode.
                              I don't know, I think screening/viewing the first two eps together was a problem, it made the sex/snogging *as you put it* more OTT. I don't think one kiss in ep 4 and one Jack giving life thingy is a lot of snogging, and if you read spoilers
                              Spoiler:
                              there is a reason for Owen kissing Gwen... um, get use to it basically.

                              I notice a lot of people *generally* who have commented on the kissing and sex haven't mentioned the times when Gwen kisses her boyfriend as an example of the kissing that goes on... I find that really interesting, almost like you expect her to kiss him so that type of kissing doesn't count. I also note Ianto kissed Lisa a bit too, but again his girlfriend *his freaky girlfriend* so maybe that doesn't count either.

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                                Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                                I don't know, I think screening/viewing the first two eps together was a problem, it made the sex/snogging *as you put it* more OTT. I don't think one kiss in ep 4 and one Jack giving life thingy is a lot of snogging, and if you read spoilers
                                Spoiler:
                                there is a reason for Owen kissing Gwen... um, get use to it basically.

                                I notice a lot of people *generally* who have commented on the kissing and sex haven't mentioned the times when Gwen kisses her boyfriend as an example of the kissing that goes on... I find that really interesting, almost like you expect her to kiss him so that type of kissing doesn't count. I also note Ianto kissed Lisa a bit too, but again his girlfriend *his freaky girlfriend* so maybe that doesn't count either.


                                You know, that is a very valid point ('they're supposed to, so it's okay'). I hadn't even noticed that before. But, you're right! Huh.

                                As for on the other flipside, reasoning? As much as it might not want to be admited... the show's fanservice wrapped up in disguse of a television show. (Well, it DID start because of how popular Jack's charri became/how much the writers etc liked the charri.) They're just trying to cover all thier bases. *L*

                                Okay so I'm half kidding there. Half.
                                "Scientists say juggling is good for the brain....Or...was that...Jelllll-o?

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