Two and a Half Men (602)

[Crichiel]

My bet's on Gwen....PLEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! Don't like her.

[warrior_chic]

My bet's on Gwen....PLEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! Don't like her.

I hate her. She's only had like 3 lines, but everything she's said has been insulting and abrasive. And I honestly don't think she adds anything to the story. I'm thinking this week. Since whats-his-face bit the dust yesterday.

[starg8fans]

I think they the first one under the bed was a different baby than the one the boys found. They made it sound like the alpha had a bunch of kids by posing as a bunch of different men. i think the kid from that mom that pulled from under the bed was taken by the alpha to who knows where. The second family Sam found, after they realized the security system pattern, had Bobby John.

You're right, I saw it too when I re-watched it yesterday with my daughter. Don't know why the position of the bodies on the floor seemed to look familiar, I mean the dad was sitting in the chair instead of lying on the floor. Brain fart, I presume.

I don't think Sam knew until he talked to that guy that separated from his wife, but I do think he kinda used Bobby John. He made it seem like Samuel's little compound was the only place to go, but just a little while ago, they wouldn't even have thought of going to Bobby, they just would have done it automatically.

Exactly. And how come Dean didn't think of it when Sam asked him if he had an alternate plan? Or is he still miffed at Bobby for not telling him that Sam was back?

I wouldn't mind if they kept her around a little. Especially since Jo and Ellen are gone. The boys need some estrogen to put them in their place every now and then.

I agree. She adds that element without taking away from or messing with the boys. Oh, and as mother to two teenagers, I really like the way she dealt with Ben's mood at the beginning of the ep. The way she talked about 'hating it' and 'open mind' was just the right mix of understanding and no nonesense.

Ok, ok. I know I said I was going to wait until I could do a decent review, but I had to make one more comment on Bobby John; How cool was THAT for his name?!! And interesting that Sam chose John while Dean chose Bobby.

Don't get me wrong, I love John to death, but I always thought Bobby was such a perfect dad for Dean. And I have also always seen Dean as being closer to him than Sam, so I liked that this supported my theory!

Yes, that was a nice little twist.

Yep, I did like the episode. Things and people are starting to fall into place.

Spoiler:

It's interesting to see how the recently created distrust between Dean and Sam will develop in the next episodes. And exactly what is Samuel's agenda.

It also raised an interesting question:

Spoiler:

Is a baby monster still a monster?

Why was my favorite line of this ep.

Spoiler:

..but I am a freaking head case? Maybe because I am one.

Suggestion:

Spoiler:

How about running a pool to bet which Campbell will die next?Just for fun.

No need to spoiler things that deal with this episode, only with others (eps. future ones). This is the discussion thread after all, and you can assume everybody here has seen it, or wants to be spoilered. My favorite line was from the same scene: "They may get a little upset when it turns Asian."

That is a good question, whether a baby monster is still a monster. Especially in the case of a shifter. Actually, is a shifter who doesn't harm anybody even a monster? Is the term defined by what you are or what you do? They touched on this topic before, in Metamorphosis. Well, that guy ended up going all 'long-pic-eater' after all, but if he hadn't? The question is anyway, does a shifter HAVE to shift from time to time, like the baby did without actually meaning to? Which raises another question - if the Alpha 'makes' all the new shifters, why did the two we met earlier grow up with people who were horrified and disgusted with their offspring and pushed them into a life of crime? Why weren't they claimed by their 'father'? Or is this a new agenda, collecting the babies instead of just spawning them?

My bet's on Gwen....PLEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! Don't like her.

Same here.

I hate her. She's only had like 3 lines, but everything she's said has been insulting and abrasive. And I honestly don't think she adds anything to the story. I'm thinking this week. Since whats-his-face bit the dust yesterday.

I figure they may keep her around a while, just to annoy us. BTW, does anybody else think she's kinda channeling Meg? OMG - you don't figure she's back, do you?

[eviladam]

Since the Impala was uncovered at the end and Lisa (think that was her name any way) told Dean to go I'm going to give it like 3 more eps maximum to impress me. I'm hoping the nexy episode will blow me away. But honestly so far I'm considering cancelling this season on my dvr.

I just don't care for the way the boys are being charecterized this season to date.

And a little piece of my soul died every time the Impala could've been used and wasn't in the last two episodes.

[iolanda]

And a little piece of my soul died every time the Impala could've been used and wasn't in the last two episodes.

I think the Impala was used wise and on spot during the last two episodes. She is the symbol for Dean being a hunter, and since she was covered, Dean wasn't a hunter at that time. He wanted to be one again, in the bottom of his heart, that`s why he opened the trunk from time to time and offered the car keys to Sam. I also wished the Impala to be there, but for the story as presented it was the absolutely right thing to chose to leave her under the tarp until Dean was ready to go on the road again.

[starg8fans]

I think the Impala was used wise and on spot during the last two episodes. She is the symbol for Dean being a hunter, and since she was covered, Dean wasn't a hunter at that time. He wanted to be one again, in the bottom of his heart, that`s why he opened the trunk from time to time and offered the car keys to Sam. I also wished the Impala to be there, but for the story as presented it was the absolutely right thing to chose to leave her under the tarp until Dean was ready to go on the road again.

I agree completely. IMHO it would have been even more wrong to watch Dean carting construction materials and grocery bags around in the Impala's trunk than seeing her under a tarp. And it was important to deal with the issue of Dean having stepped away from that life for a year. It's one thing I love about this show that they don't gloss over ramnifications like that.

[LoneStar1836]

The Impala under the tarp was some major symbolism. Like the song they chose for the opener montage with Dean...it wasn't the standard fair that we get in SPN eps. They were done for a reason.

That's why I've quite enjoyed the first two eps. They are setting up this season. You knew the Impala would make its grand reappearance eventually. And the Campbells have a part to play as well which is why at this point I have no problem with them...MP and CN's characters anyway. They can toss Gwen anytime they want.

I like this new story arc so far. Last year's was starting to wear on me, especially with the seemingly constant rehashing of dialogue to really drive home the parallel of John/Dean/Sam and God/Michael/Lucifer...as if I didn't get it the first time. Anyway I like that they are going back to their roots with the monsters and building up whatever this mystery is with them and then with the deal with Samuel and his return.


As to specifically this episode, I do think Sam kind of knows what's going on. Sam's too smart a guy to have the wool completely pulled over his eyes. So yeah I think he was lying to Dean there at the end, and I think Dean suspects he's lying as well because well Sam's never been that great a liar.

Yay!! Cas is back next week.

[JadedWraith]

^ I'm in for the pool! Well, 2 down 20 to go. Something's bound to happen somewhere in there. Although, I'm no good at predicting where TPTB take the stories.

My bet's on Gwen....PLEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! Don't like her.

I hate her. She's only had like 3 lines, but everything she's said has been insulting and abrasive. And I honestly don't think she adds anything to the story. I'm thinking this week. Since whats-his-face bit the dust yesterday.

Uhm, I think since Christian is the one who shows more antagonism with Dean, he'll be the last to go (before Samuel) , but I am known for being wrong about these thing.

You're right, I saw it too when I re-watched it yesterday with my daughter. Don't know why the position of the bodies on the floor seemed to look familiar, I mean the dad was sitting in the chair instead of lying on the floor. Brain fart, I presume.

No, that's an interesting point. Not sure what it means, though.

No need to spoiler things that deal with this episode, only with others (eps. future ones). This is the discussion thread after all, and you can assume everybody here has seen it, or wants to be spoilered. My favorite line was from the same scene: "They may get a little upset when it turns Asian."

Well, I came from a different thread, where they were people really sensitive (a.k.a. whiny ] ) about the spoiler tags, so, when in doubt I use them.

But dully noted, thanks.

That is a good question, whether a baby monster is still a monster. Especially in the case of a shifter. Actually, is a shifter who doesn't harm anybody even a monster? Is the term defined by what you are or what you do? They touched on this topic before, in Metamorphosis. Well, that guy ended up going all 'long-pic-eater' after all, but if he hadn't? The question is anyway, does a shifter HAVE to shift from time to time, like the baby did without actually meaning to? Which raises another question - if the Alpha 'makes' all the new shifters, why did the two we met earlier grow up with people who were horrified and disgusted with their offspring and pushed them into a life of crime? Why weren't they claimed by their 'father'? Or is this a new agenda, collecting the babies instead of just spawning them.

Metamorphosis was a great ep. It seems to indicate there is indeed a change on how the Alpha deals with his "spawn".

I figure they may keep her around a while, just to annoy us. BTW, does anybody else think she's kinda channeling Meg? OMG - you don't figure she's back, do you?

She does channel Meg. Who knows? Literally, all Hell broke loose.

My question: is why did the Alpha not kill Dean, besides the obvious fact we'd loose our favorite character ( well, mine)?

[starg8fans]

I like this new story arc so far. Last year's was starting to wear on me, especially with the seemingly constant rehashing of dialogue to really drive home the parallel of John/Dean/Sam and God/Michael/Lucifer...as if I didn't get it the first time. Anyway I like that they are going back to their roots with the monsters and building up whatever this mystery is with them and then with the deal with Samuel and his return.

Yes, same here. It's refreshing to have stand-alone(ish) episodes without the major myth arch.

As to specifically this episode, I do think Sam kind of knows what's going on. Sam's too smart a guy to have the wool completely pulled over his eyes. So yeah I think he was lying to Dean there at the end, and I think Dean suspects he's lying as well because well Sam's never been that great a liar.

Yay!! Cas is back next week.

I agree with Sam being smart, but I don't think he has everything figured out. After all, Sam told the boys in Exit on Main Street to take away without the boys noticing.

And you may want to spoiler that last bit, since it refers to next week's ep.

Well, I came from a different thread, where they were people really sensitive (a.k.a. whiny ] ) about the spoiler tags, so, when in doubt I use them.

But dully noted, thanks.

Freudian slip, or am I boring you to tears?

She does channel Meg. Who knows? Literally, all Hell broke loose.

My question: is why did the Alpha not kill Dean, besides the obvious fact we'd loose our favorite character ( well, mine)?

I think the actress reminds me a bit of S5 Meg too.

I was about to say because he had what he came for, but then why would he kill the kids' parents? He could have just incapacitated them as well.

[iolanda]

Just my 2 cents concerning the episode:

This was pretty much exactly what I hoped for after the last episode. Everything is slowly falling into place, the boys are back, the car is back, the thing with Lisa found a solution I really like, because it just makes sense this way. And I don't want to forget, that the humour is back. Seatbelt? Magic fingers? The colour shaping baby? And the music, which was missed last episode, just came at the right time. What a beautiful scene!

The writers really now how to pull my strings. We get a lot of answers, but there are still enough big ones which I'd really like to know.
So, what happened to Sam and Samuel? And was Samuel really pulled down? And who is the mysterious guy on the other side of the land line?

My theory:

Spoiler:

I guess that somehow Crowley is involved in this, and that there is someone superior to Crowley who is also holding Bobbys contract now. And this someone is the cause for Sammy and Samuel coming back. Maybe Samuel got the chance to get back to earth if he helps that mysterious someone.

Something which occurred to me last night is how grown up Dean became. He cares about Lisa and Ben, and I love him this way. The way he looks after the baby was just adorable (except the whiskey part of course, but that is just Dean ).

So,now we get an Alpha shifter. That is interesting! Maybe there is a chance for the baby shifters to not become bad persons. You already mentioned Jack from Metamorphosis, but I also want to put the shifter from "Monster Movie" into the plan. He was a killer, but his history was also sad. What if someone like him doesn't get told that he is a monster for all of his live (I know this sentence is grammatically odd, but I don't know how to put it better). He could have grown into a decent person.

BTW: Didn't they cast the cutest babies?

So, do I have something on the negative side? Not really. There are trust issues between Sam and Dean, which I don't like, but I think they are just important for the story. I re-watched the episode today, and Sam wasn't there when the shifter told about their dads, but he knew for sure that this creature existed, and I don't think that it's impossible that it was the plan all along to get the baby to Samuel.

Oh, someone asked why nobody thought about Bobby: Dean didn't want to bring the baby to any hunter at all, and maybe Bobby was just too far away. It looks like the hunters camp is in Illinois or Indiana and Bobby is somewhere in North/ South Dakota. On the other: distances were never really the problem in SPN

[warrior_chic]

Since we seem to be touching on the topic of monster/not monster, I agree that "Monster Movie" needs to be thrown into the equation. Purely by nature of what he was becoming, Jack in "Metamorphosis" was a monster- he had to eat human flesh. Shifters on the other hand don't have to do bad things just b/c they shift. They could be the ultimate undercover cop or something. So I think of all the monsters we've seen, that baby probably had the greatest chance of not becoming a true monster.

And now that I look back at it, I'm happier with the premiere. Dean has been out of his element until now, so TPTB kinda put us out of our element as well- no Impala, no classic rock. We were supposed to feel weird with the situation just like Dean was. And like someone said, things are starting to fall into place again.

And now I'm starting to think back to those couple eps from the past with Samuel. That phone call kinda sounded like they were superior (?) to Samuel. I'm wondering, in the case of a Deal, who would have wanted Samuel back, and who would have had that type of relationship with him. Now my head is a spinnin' with theories

[JadedWraith]

Freudian slip, or am I boring you to tears?

No, my English is crap and I am sucker for a dropping double consonants everywhere!

I was about to say because he had what he came for, but then why would he kill the kids' parents? He could have just incapacitated them as well.

That's my point, exactly. He might have thought that Dean was only trying to protect the kid, but so were the child's parents and they were not spared. Or maybe there is a bigger picture I am not seeing. One where Dean is needed alive, for now.

[iolanda]

I was about to say because he had what he came for, but then why would he kill the kids' parents? He could have just incapacitated them as well.

Maybe they hope that the search for the baby will be stopped after hitting enough dead ends. Parents won't be stopped by that.

[Crichiel]

Again, I got tears in my eyes (and running down my face) when he uncovered the Impala. That kind of visceral reaction was a direct result of him NOT driving the first two episodes. So I think it was absolutely the right choice.

[LoneStar1836]

I agree with Sam being smart, but I don't think he has everything figured out. After all, Sam told the boys in Exit on Main Street to take away without the boys noticing.

And you may want to spoiler that last bit, since it refers to next week's ep.

I don't think Sam knows everything that's going on with Samuel (like who the mystery person was on the phone), but I do think he knew about the Alpha and that he was in on the plan to try to lure it to the compound with the baby. Sam's just not that gullible anymore to spend about a year with these people and not have some idea of what's going on with them. Obviously he couldn't tell Dean about using the baby as bait because Dean would have never agreed.

MC is a main actor so him coming back isn't a spoiler per GW spoiler policy. I'd have to spoiler why he's back though...which sounds interesting based on the ep description, btw.

Since we seem to be touching on the topic of monster/not monster, I agree that "Monster Movie" needs to be thrown into the equation. Purely by nature of what he was becoming, Jack in "Metamorphosis" was a monster- he had to eat human flesh. Shifters on the other hand don't have to do bad things just b/c they shift. They could be the ultimate undercover cop or something. So I think of all the monsters we've seen, that baby probably had the greatest chance of not becoming a true monster.

I agree. But it all depends on who raises the kid. Not exactly sure this group of hunters is the right choice though. Maybe somebody like Bobby who wouldn't abuse the kid's ability.