Swan Song (522)

[Aerilon]

But the prophecy doesn't say when they have to fight. It could be with both of them in pit now, that the previous prophecy about armageddon is no longer valid. The future isn't written and all that.

Well thats just it, the future is suppose to already be wrote. Sam was always going to say yes in Detroit for example.

We also don't know if God brought back Gabriel, he certainly could have done it off screen. From what Cas said, he might be an archangel now. He's probably in heaven, taking control. I guess that's some stuff they should address in season 6

They should address this in season 6 yeah, but I bet they wont, especially in regards to Gabriel. All they're likely to address is Castiel, but then, come season 6, there isn't really any need for Castiel to be around. The Apocalypse has ended. Cas can't keep popping down to help out the Winchesters whenever he feels like it, surely?

Lucifer always struck me as a petulant child. He wanted to be loved more than all others and he got angry when God loved Man more than him.

This was the case, always was. But what I'm saying is he had the right idea, that being not to follow the 'plan' that God had set out. It was Michael who wouldn't take a different road, Lucifer was all for it.

Was it ever stated in the series that God was all knowing? I can't recall that it was, in which case you're proscribing your own belief about God. Plus, who doesn't want a God with a sense of humor?

I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.

Having God with a sense of humour I can cope with, and you're right, it doesn't ever specify that God is all knowing, though one would think he is, if he'd planned this Apocalypse from time's beginning. Even then, we've got to ask ourselves why Chuck/God acted so unlike God when we had scenes of him alone. Just doesn't make sense to have Chuck as God. No!

Didn't Cas say he heard a rumor about objects that could locate God? Maybe it was just God's way of getting Cas out of the picture to let the boys do what they needed to do or maybe just the writers getting a powerful character out of the way.

Maybe, but then if God wanted Cas out of the picture, why did he keep bringing him back to help them?

So Dean should feel as broken up over a kid he barely knows over Sam, who he practically raised? I'm sure he feels bad about Adam but I can see where he feels worse about Sam.

I still think Adam should have got a mention.

I'm pretty sure that Crowley gave back Bobby his soul last episode but I'd have to go back and rewatch it, just to be sure.

He didn't give it back. It was never fully explained why he took it in the first place.

[LizzieAnne]

As soon as the ep came on with the history of the Impala I thought…uh-oh…were going to be getting a totally different kind of finale here. I don’t think I can bear it!

But what we got what a totally mind blowing piece that I’m still getting my head around.

I’ve only watched it once, and I've had a sleep, so at this point, it’s my first impression.

My heart was in my mouth through it all.

When Sam was saying his goodbyes. I could only think that the guys should have one of their hugs…go on..hug..hug, hug why don't you!!! Gah! I hate you Kripke.

Skipping to the end:

I think at the point in the field with Lucifer and Michael..…destiny /fate was put aside and even God didn’t know how it was going to turn out. I’m thinking that this was the whole point.

The only thing that kept Dean alive was the love the guys have for each other and that love/family was the ONLY thing in the end that freed them from their destiny and the Apocalypse. I reckon Sam saying 'Yes' and sacrificing himself was always going to happen, as was Dean always saying 'No.' That was why the angels tried everything they could to persuade Dean to change his mind.

This was in total contrast to Lucifer and Michael…Lucifer - spoilt, self indulgent & twisted ( using his freewill) and Michael - cold, heartless and obedient (towing the party line) . No wonder God decided he preferred humans.

Fantastic story but I’m still feeling numb by it all.

Chuck being God? Haven’t quite absorbed that yet. It maybe a case of the writers taking liberties here just because they can. But on the other hand why should we think that God wouldn’t have some human failings if he chose to take human form…maybe that’s the point…maybe that was why he did it…to understand the human condition while he kept an eye on the Winchesters, while the whole sorry mess played out. That’s how I like to see it. But why didn’t he know about the hoarding of toilet paper in the other future? That's what I want to know.

The things I loved:

The scene when Sam said ‘Yes‘… when Lucifer said he knew about the rings…just plain scary for them both.

Sam popping off those demons.

Lucifer was looking suitably worn around the edges.

The confrontation between Sam and Lucifer!Sam…all kinds of awesome. Jared did a totally incredible job there.

Always the music.

Dean riding the Impala into battle.

Lucifer!Sam killing Cas and Bobby..I nearly died at that.

Lucifer!Sam beating the cr*p out of Dean and then he sees the toy soldier in the ashtray. The playback of the seasons was wonderful.

Cas coming back and healing Dean. I think I was holding my breath until that happened.

Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!

[starg8fans]

He didn't give it back. It was never fully explained why he took it in the first place.

The way I understood it Crowley needed something for the ritual that would help him locate Death that he couldn't get without paying a soul for it, so he needed Bobby to ask for whatever it was by making a deal. I guess this falls under the 'red tape' both the YED and Zachariah mentioned. I think it's really funny to imagine heaven and hell ruled by bureaucracy.

Chuck being God? Haven’t quite absorbed that yet. It maybe a case of the writers taking liberties here just because they can. But on the other hand why should we think that God wouldn’t have some human failings if he chose to take human form…maybe that’s the point…maybe that was why he did it…to understand the human condition while he kept an eye on the Winchesters, while the whole sorry mess played out. That’s how I like to see it. But why didn’t he know about the hoarding of toilet paper in the other future? That's what I want to know.

Having God with a sense of humour I can cope with, and you're right, it doesn't ever specify that God is all knowing, though one would think he is, if he'd planned this Apocalypse from time's beginning. Even then, we've got to ask ourselves why Chuck/God acted so unlike God when we had scenes of him alone. Just doesn't make sense to have Chuck as God. No!

I guess God taking on the role of Chuck was like Gabriel getting his 'witness protection' as the Trickster/Loki. He too was acting the part even when he was on his own (remember in Tall Tales when he conjured up the dessert buffet and the two scantily clad girls), so why wouldn't God stay in character? I would even go so far as to say he had to stay in character since the angels certainly had an eye on their 'prophet' and would have noticed it if he acted OOC.

The confrontation between Sam and Lucifer!Sam…all kinds of awesome. Jared did a totally incredible job there.

It was about time Jared got a chance to excel at a double role, after Jensen had been able to show off his acting skills with playing off himself twice.

Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!

I agree. I guess they were aiming for a finale three-parter, but they could - or should - have spun it out over a few more eps.

[LizzieAnne]

I guess God taking on the role of Chuck was like Gabriel getting his 'witness protection' as the Trickster/Loki. He too was acting the part even when he was on his own (remember in Tall Tales when he conjured up the dessert buffet and the two scantily clad girls), so why wouldn't God stay in character? I would even go so far as to say he had to stay in character since the angels certainly had an eye on their 'prophet' and would have noticed it if he acted OOC.

I like that idea, it makes sense. Especially as at the end when everything was done and dusted Chuck was dressed in white and had a totally different look to him just before he disappeared.

[LoneStar1836]

Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!

I agree. I guess they were aiming for a finale three-parter, but they could - or should - have spun it out over a few more eps.

I agree on all points as well. They should have started working towards the finale earlier. The last few eps felt rushed for me as well. But I think they did well on this one and got in the points they needed to hit to make it work for me.

[flameling]

The biggest thing I'm seeing here is complaints about chuck being God. I think it makes perfect sense for a few reasons:
1). The entire author writing the book comparison
2). What better way does God have to subtly influence events? I think he knew that being a prophet would give him the authority that would make the boy's listen to him. I also think that he was always on Sam and Dean's side, trying to help them along the way, help them the pass the test but never helped them cheat directly.
3). There's a few ways to take the personality. Witness Protection deal was already pointed out so I shall say he was always like that. Lucifer hated us because we were flawed but it seems that that is why God loves us. If one has ever listened to religous figures you'd hear that God made us in his image. If we take that logic it makes perfect sense for him to be flawed because we to are flawed.
Personally I think the last five years was God's plan but he knew certain things would have to be pushed in certain directions.

[kennythewraith]

the only thing that bothered me was that it really felt like this was the series finale and not a season finale.im so glad it got picked up for another year,this is my favorite show but Swan Song was the perfect series finale for this show and yet it wont be that and if 6 is the end watever the finale is,i honeslty dont believe it will be as good as Swan Song would have been.
but enough of my whining...i believe Chuck might have been god hiding in a prophet and simply did a great job fooling everyone by acting like the real Chuck.which explains his still having an archangel protector,his odd and ungod like behavior.

[Jeffer]

the only thing that bothered me was that it really felt like this was the series finale and not a season finale.im so glad it got picked up for another year,this is my favorite show but Swan Song was the perfect series finale for this show and yet it wont be that and if 6 is the end watever the finale is,i honeslty dont believe it will be as good as Swan Song would have been.
but enough of my whining...i believe Chuck might have been god hiding in a prophet and simply did a great job fooling everyone by acting like the real Chuck.which explains his still having an archangel protector,his odd and ungod like behavior.

I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

[kennythewraith]

I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

i dont think season 6 will be bad at all.all the major writers are staying,krpke may have stepped down as showrunner but he says he will still be heavily involved in the creative process.i will give kripke credit for not changing the episode when they found out about the season 6pickup,well except sam popping up at the end probably was added for that reason.

[the fifth man]

i dont think season 6 will be bad at all.all the major writers are staying,krpke may have stepped down as showrunner but he says he will still be heavily involved in the creative process.i will give kripke credit for not changing the episode when they found out about the season 6pickup,well except sam popping up at the end probably was added for that reason.

I think so too. That only makes sense.

[the fifth man]

I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

I really don't think we have to worry about that. Not with this show's track record.

[Krisz]

A great ending and it would have been a perfect end to the series if that was to be the case. I wouldn't have expected anything less from SN.

I just loved the way the whole thing was set up, we get a wonderful recap of the events that brought the two brothers to this point, it made it all the more poignant with how they were prepared to sacrifice themselves to save the world.

At first glance I thought that Chuck was God in the end, but I just can't help thinking that this being SN it has to be someone we would never have expected. With Sam turning up at the end I'm just going to be ridiculous and say that Sam was God all the time. He really has been at the centre of things throughout the series and the catalyst for all the events, as if it really was God testing the faith and resolve of all his creations; angels, demons and humans alike, keeping the balance amongst them.

This is what I love about SN, so full of surprises and I can speculate to my heart's content. I can't wait to see what happens in S6.

[Crichiel]

*walks in shaking head*....I....but the.....*splutter splutter seething*...with the...and ugh!...and how they.....I can't...grrr!....*shakes fists at the heavens*

Sorry. Still too upset, I don't want to say anything now that I might regret later (because there were some moments of brilliance in here). I need a few weeks to cool off and then hopefully I can articulate my disappointment in a more objective and articulate fashion.

*exit, stage left, head downcast, a quiet sobbing is heard*

*runs back in for a second* BUT...I WILL say this: I am glad this isn't the last episode, because I wouldn't have been content at all. Jensen has said more than once that when all is said and done and the show is over, he doesn't want the 'happily ever after' for Dean. He hopes that Dean will go out in a blaze of glory, preferably in the Impala where their remains are indistinguishable from each other, and personally, I agree. THAT'S the kind of hero's ending for me!!

[Trig]

I dont want there to be a season 6..
The story was meant to be 5 seasons wasnt it?

Why ruin it with a season 6?

[LizzieAnne]

*walks in shaking head*....I....but the.....*splutter splutter seething*...with the...and ugh!...and how they.....I can't...grrr!....*shakes fists at the heavens*

Sorry. Still too upset, I don't want to say anything now that I might regret later (because there were some moments of brilliance in here). I need a few weeks to cool off and then hopefully I can articulate my disappointment in a more objective and articulate fashion.

*exit, stage left, head downcast, a quiet sobbing is heard*

*runs back in for a second* BUT...I WILL say this: I am glad this isn't the last episode, because I wouldn't have been content at all. Jensen has said more than once that when all is said and done and the show is over, he doesn't want the 'happily ever after' for Dean. He hopes that Dean will go out in a blaze of glory, preferably in the Impala where their remains are indistinguishable from each other, and personally, I agree. THAT'S the kind of hero's ending for me!!

I do understand what you mean by the ending...and although I was OK with it, even though I still think Lisa came out of nowhere, I reckon that some of it was for the benefit of a Season 6.
And if it were the end of the series finale, and I could have chosen the ending myself, it would have been Sam and Dean going into the cage together in a blaze of glory. Or if you prefer they could be in the Impala and drive it into the Pit ..I'm OK with that as well.

I dont want there to be a season 6..
The story was meant to be 5 seasons wasnt it?

Why ruin it with a season 6?

I can understand after such a big story arc that you might think that but another season doesn't necessarily = ruin. Kripke had his vision of 5 years but he didn't reckon on it becoming so successful...so why finish the show now when so many more people are enjoying it. So here we are with another Season coming. I can't wait.