Sympathy for the Devil (501)

[Ashizuri]

seriously, my immediate reaction was:

Bobby!
BOBBY!
Holy crap, give Sam back his lungs!
Oh snap, Castiel is awesome.
Oh Dean. Oh Sam. Saaaaaad.

After I proccessed a bit:

-When Bobby was telling Sam that everything was his fault and to loose his number I kept thinking Dean was going to offer up the information that this is at least half his fault as he broke the first seal. Way to let baby brother take all the heat.

-I didn't like to new Meg actress, something about the way she talked bugged me.

-Castiel, still far cooler than the other angels, though he does seem to be Castiel on steroids. He better not be drinking some other angels blood.

-How did the demons suddenly figure out that Dean was Michael's vessel? The "dreams" they've been having maybe? It just seems odd that they suddenly know everything, unless I missed something.

-Bobby in the hospital, kicking the doctor out of the room. Lol. I love Bobby more than I thought possible.

-I was unsure about Pellegrino, having never seen any of his previous work, but the scene with the bloody bassinet was intense. I can't wait to see him now that he's allowed Lucifer to possess him. And crap, I kind of did find myself sympathysing with the devil for a few seconds there.

-Hex bags Sammy? I really think that now is kind of not the time to be showing off what Ruby taught you. Then again, well played, you did need to hide from the angels.

-I can't wait to see Jo and Ellen back, I always loved them, so it was nice seeing them in the previews. I hope we get more Anna as well. (I wish the fangirls didn't have the uncotrollable hate for any female cast. I've liked almost all of them.)

[GateMan2000]

Great episode. I am looking foward to this season.

[Crichiel]

I'm back. Sorry.

Ok, it might not have been apparent from my previous post, because I was focussing on everything BUT the Sam/Dean stuff, I am actually quite the Dean/Jensen Girl. Just letting you know up front, so you can factor in my biases in what I write.

As I said earlier, I am kind of conflicted about how they handled the brotherly make-up stuff. Let me look at it scene by scene.

-First scene in the rental/stolen car. Dean brushes Sam off and leaves it at "It's ok. Now isn't the time." I get that. It really isn't the time, but they had me worried for a second. Especially when Sam also gets that free pass on the de-tox. I was worried that they wouldn't have the time to wrap up all these big hanging details, so maybe they would begrudgingly let some of these things slip by. I should have known Supernatural would never allow that to happen!

-"Your eyes were black?" Tells you he isn't forgetting and isn't 'fine with everything that happened. He's just putting it on hold.

-Scene in the hotel room. What I love about Jensen's (and Jared's too) acting is how good he is at saying it with his face. You can read everything going on in his mind with his subtle facial movements and body language. So when Sam tries to apologise again and Dean turns away from him, you can see already how hard Dean is trying to not blow up. When he does snap "So, why do you keep bringing it up?!", you were waiting for it and are almost relieved that he even got that much off his chest.

-When 'Bobby' is telling Sam to lose his number after this current crisis is resolved. Why why WHY is Dean not saying anything? That's actually what threw me off in the scene, moreso than what Bobby was doing. I was SURE Bobby was a demon, but I couldn't figure out what was going on with Dean because I can't think of another time when he would let someone ELSE talk to Sam like that. He can yell at Sam all he wants, but he generally doesn't let others. Even their surrogate father. But here, he stands by passively....even with that look of horrific sadness on Sam's face!

And now we are starting to get to my problem. Dean isn't accepting that he has ANY fault in the situation. This doesn't match up with what we saw in Lucifer Rising, or what we have seen time and time again in the past 4 years. Dean and Sam are generally only TOO willing to take the blame, even for things that aren't their fault in the least! There is a really fine line that Supernatural walks, and usually, I am amazed at how well they walk it. The boys are human, with human foibles and failings, but they are always 'man' enough to admit their mistakes. It's what makes them such relatable heroes.

Look again at Lucifer Rising, at the REAL phone message Dean leaves for Sam. First of all, I love how he does it 'Dean-style' by starting with "I still owe you one hell of a beat-down....", BUT he is big enough to admit that even though he still firmly believes he is right, it was NOT all right for him to say the things he said to Sam, and he apologises.

In Sympathy for the Devil, Sam apologises left, right and centre, taking even more blame than necessary....but Dean? The only tiny little concession he makes to anything being his fault is when he says "WE made a mess, we'll clean it up." Dean doesn't defend Sam against Bobby, he doesn't defend him against Zachariah's blame at Chuck's....Dean is basically throwing him to the wolves. Where's all that self-recrimination for breaking the FIRST seal? What about the stuff he said on the phone to Sam? Shouldn't he re-iterate that to Sam in person?! It makes Dean come off as kind of unsympathetic in these scenes...which irritates a Dean fan like me because I want everyone to love him as much as I do!

OK....but here is the conflict I have. I also LIKE some of these scenes because of the realism. I mean, criminy! How WOULD you begin to forgive what Sam's has done. Especially someone like Dean whose whole world revolves around his trust in family. Moreso than any other character on the series, Dean's life is totally dependent on knowing that that love and safety is there for him. His biggest insecurities come out when he feels his family doesn't need him like he needs them (as the YED pointed out to him). And by teaming up with Ruby and basically committing the horrible crime of being able to live without Dean while he was in hell, Sam was saying that he DIDN'T need Dean.

So, I totally understand what Dean is feeling. I like that he was able to at least see that Sam WOULD take it back if there was any way and can say both, "I KNOW how sorry you are..." and "I'm having a hard time forgiving and forgetting here". The responses highlight that he is gets it and he is trying, but he is only human. And the deepest wound, saying that he no longer trusts Sam? It is so hard, even as a viewer to hear. But honestly, if this were a real life situation, there is no way on earth the relationship could go back to the way it was. You can't undo the past and it will colour every future action you make, whether you want it to or not. Dean was being honest. Heart-breakingly honest.

And kudos again to both Jared and Jensen for their acting in this scene!

So, to sum up (sorry again....I'm a rambler! ). I think the troubled relationship the brothers are experiencing right now is wonderful, and I am thrilled that they aren't just glossing over the seriousness of their emotional situation. (I would have revolted if they had cleared up that monster of a mess in ONE episode). BUT, I am a ticked at Dean not owning up to his own culpability in this whole thing. It seems a little OOC and is tarnishing the halo that I personally like to put on him!

[starg8fans]

Wow, Chrich, great analysis! Will only pick a few things to comment on.

-Getting pulled out of the chapel. Hmm. Some of you have issue with the God explanation. I actually kind of like it that God HASN'T left the building (because, frankly, that was prettty hard concept for someone as religious as me to suspend disbelief over), but just getting yanked away from a scene as potentially exciting as facing Lucifer as he rises? I was disappointed that we were cheated of that confrontation. Though I like the transition to the Yosemite Sam cartoon. And, poor Dean! He has a right to be afraid of flying. The two times he's been on a plane they DO almost crash!

Actually, I think they would not have survived seeing Lucifer rise. Did you see the holes the bright light broke into the door? This was an angel rising in its true form, the boys would have been incinerated. The cut to the cartoon was a nice touch, though.

-I have always really liked the idea of the blood glyph (even if it has a number of inherent problems when you think carefully on it). It's a cool visual device and the way Dean uses it to stick it to Zachariah is a cheer-out-loud kind of moment....makes me overlook the continuity issues there like: when could they have POSSIBLY had time to put it on the door, and why does Dean have no cut on his arm in the very next scene?

Yes, I was wondering too when he got around to preparing that. And I kinda missed a bloody handprint when Dean took his hand away. I mean, it had been dripping blood before! And yes, bad coninuity on whatever cut the blood came from.

-I do NOT like the getting sober cheat! Being Supernatural, I can only hope that it wasn't completely true and Sam isn't free of the physical ramifications of his addiction, because I am not happy that he got a 'get out of jail free' card on this point.

TBH, I didn't even think about Sam's addiction. But I'm quite glad with them letting it go. I think it's a good idea to concentrate on the emotional turmoil and healing, having Sam in physical trauma as well would distract from it.

-It was too obvious that it wasn't Bobby as soon as he went after Sam. Bobby simply doesn't do that. Bobby is like the anti-John. He doesnt verbally attack people in anger. He may yell out some painful truths to the boys, but the things he was saying to Sam went against every Bobby-code we've seen about sticking together and being family no matter what. They should have instantly picked up on that, no matter what Sam had done. Oh man, though, the look on Sam's face! That was absolutely crushing!!

The funny thing is, I already felt Bobby was OOC when he entered the room. The way he hugged the boys felt somewhat... wrong. But I never would have thought he was possessed - as I said earlier, Bobby knows too much to allow that to happen. I was thinking that he had his own take on the fact that Armageddon was happening, and that the boys caused it, but wouldn't say.

-Love loved loved that Bobby loves the boys so much, he was able to overtake the demon momentarily to save Dean, like John did in Devil's Trap. And the resulting fight between the demons and Sam and Dean was awesome. Though, I seriously doubt Sam or Dean would be able to walk at all after the beatings they took!

I was thinking the same thing. Don't give us beatings like that if you're unwilling to follow through. I mean, there wasn't even a hint of a bruise on Dean's face. They probably blew their whole blood allowance for the ep on the bed and the crib...

[/quote]-I know this is going to divide people, but I got shivers of excitement when Zach told Dean he was the Sword of Michael. I LOVE this twist of events! I didn't see it coming at all and I like all that it could imply. I think it also helps to humanise Dean again because like Zach says, Dean isn't going to stop Lucifer because he has some latent superpowers like Sam, he is just a human. A special human, but just a human.[/quote]

I agree, I liked that too - for exactly the same reasons.

-Dean realising that Michael needs his consent is a powerful moment, because it limits the angels' powers and gives some of it back to us mere mortals. This whole scene is probably my favourite of the episode. We have the visceral images (and sounds) of an angel torturing the good guys (!). The sounds of Sam's legs breaking. *shudder* And more importantly, for the first time, we see Dean FINALLY break the Winchester cycle of sacrificing anything to save each other. Sam's life is tangibly threatened and Dean is still strong enough to say 'no' to Zach. Bobby could be healed, and Dean still says 'no'. Each 'no' had me beaming with pride. And his "Yes....kill us" made me cheer out loud!

Same here. That was quite a change, and another indication for me how much Sam's betrayal has shaken Dean.

Me, too. I loved this so much. There was so much going on. Lots of new questions were raised that I can't wait to see the answers to.

Me, too! I was discussing with a friend the other day what kind of graphic they might have this season. I was thinking fire would be appropriate, but that had already been done. I think the blood works really well.

Yes, the new graphics are really cool. It was so funny, I was watching it with the kids, and when it came on the three of us kinda said 'cool' in unison!

Yes! Another fantastic entrance for Castiel. Though it makes me wonder what is going on with him. Cos he's got some serious mojo he didn't have pre-explosion. Did God amp up his angel juice after saving him? Is he now an archangel? Is he even Castiel? Could he be someone else? Michael? God, even? I'm so happy and excited they made Castiel a regular for this season. His storyline is going to be amazing.

The kids and I were specualting too if maybe Cas was God undercover. That could explain why Dean couldn't look at his true form, even though he is a vessel. Cas may be more than an angel. Anyway, Misha Collins said in an interview that Cas' real agenda will be revealed in the second episode, so I'm looking forward to that..[/QUOTE]

-How did the demons suddenly figure out that Dean was Michael's vessel? The "dreams" they've been having maybe? It just seems odd that they suddenly know everything, unless I missed something.

The demons didn't figure that out. They were looking for the actual sword after they'd got the address from Dean.

-I was unsure about Pellegrino, having never seen any of his previous work, but the scene with the bloody bassinet was intense. I can't wait to see him now that he's allowed Lucifer to possess him. And crap, I kind of did find myself sympathysing with the devil for a few seconds there.

I never saw him in a show either, but I'm liking what I see until now. I also agree with whoever said that it was good to get the background on this 'vessel'. And a pretty gruesome it is too. As a mom, anything where people lose their kids just makes me shudder.

As I said earlier, I am kind of conflicted about how they handled the brotherly make-up stuff. Let me look at it scene by scene.

<snipped for space>

So, to sum up (sorry again....I'm a rambler! ). I think the troubled relationship the brothers are experiencing right now is wonderful, and I am thrilled that they aren't just glossing over the seriousness of their emotional situation. (I would have revolted if they had cleared up that monster of a mess in ONE episode). BUT, I am a ticked at Dean not owning up to his own culpability in this whole thing. It seems a little OOC and is tarnishing the halo that I personally like to put on him!

Actually, I'm curious to see where the writers are going with this. It is disconcerting to see Dean acting so unusual, but then he's a different person. Sam's final betrayal must have left its marks on Dean's soul, and I would be more disappointed if he was still the same man as last season. So I'm reserving judgement until I've seen more.

[Switch42]

And now we are starting to get to my problem. Dean isn't accepting that he has ANY fault in the situation. This doesn't match up with what we saw in Lucifer Rising, or what we have seen time and time again in the past 4 years. Dean and Sam are generally only TOO willing to take the blame, even for things that aren't their fault in the least! There is a really fine line that Supernatural walks, and usually, I am amazed at how well they walk it. The boys are human, with human foibles and failings, but they are always 'man' enough to admit their mistakes. It's what makes them such relatable heroes.

I think I was OK with that particular bit because so much of the last half of season 4 (post OtHoaP, anyway) was all about Dean coming to terms with his culpability in this situation and trying to atone for it. And by this point, it's almost a situation of what's done is done, nothing else can be said about it. The apocalypse is here. And Sam really did have a chance to "stop" it. Dean may have started it, yes. And we've dealt with that. But Sam could have stomped the whole thing out before it REALLY got started but he didn't. Because he wouldn't listen and was so blinded by his need for revenge that he let a demon get the better of him. So, to me, yeah, right now this is all on Sam. Dean's paid his dues, done his time for the part he played. Now it's Sam's turn.

(I love Sam and Dean equally. So it hurts me to see either of them in this situation.)

[LoneStar1836]

I think what bugged me the most was God saving Dean, Sam, and Castiel. I was okay with this idea of God as the super being who created the world and now leaves it alone (which is kind of what they hinted at last season), but now he's saving people? Why only Dean, Sam, and Castiel? Why not the whole world? Why doesn't he intervene and prevent Lucifer from taking his vessel? I mean if he can save the angel, Castiel, then why can't he stop the other angel, Lucifer?

I've got no problems with TPTB playing with angels and demons, but leave God out of it because then you get into the whole omnipotent thing and questions arise as to why he just can't save everyone. Let God be too "big" for us puny humans on this little lonely planet.

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure I'm sold on the idea of God making his way onto the show and getting into the act. Not that I find it offensive as I'm not religious, but He has the potential to be too powerful. A minor act like this is okay, but I hope the writers do go at it with the concept that God has ultimately given man free will to decide his destiny...especially since the show loves to play with the idea of free will versus fated destiny.

I'm wondering if it really was god that saved Dean, Sam and Castiel. Maybe it was an angel who doesn'tt agree with what the other angels are doing. It might even have been Lucifer, so far what we know about Lucifer comes from the other angels, and they aren't exactly reliable.

I like that idea. Puts a bit more of a twist in the story if that's the case, but I do think the writers were strongly implying that God had a hand in that as well as Castiel's return.

What I didn't get was how Bobby could be possessed? I mean, as careful as he is, don't you think he has that charm tattoo as well? Good for him, though, that he took control of the demon before it could kill Dean.

Same here.

-Love the new title card graphic

Me too.

-Getting pulled out of the chapel. Hmm. Some of you have issue with the God explanation. I actually kind of like it that God HASN'T left the building (because, frankly, that was prettty hard concept for someone as religious as me to suspend disbelief over), but just getting yanked away from a scene as potentially exciting as facing Lucifer as he rises? I was disappointed that we were cheated of that confrontation. Though I like the transition to the Yosemite Sam cartoon. And, poor Dean! He has a right to be afraid of flying. The two times he's been on a plane they DO almost crash!

I loved that.

As far as a confrontation, I wasn't really expecting one in this episode. Lucifer had to find a vessel first... Can't jam pack everything into the first episode.

-I do NOT like the getting sober cheat! Being Supernatural, I can only hope that it wasn't completely true and Sam isn't free of the physical ramifications of his addiction, because I am not happy that he got a 'get out of jail free' card on this point.

I think that is my biggest issue with this episode. I didn't like that either. Too easy a solution. I am hoping this will not be swept under the rug so easily. Drying him out like that was okay, but I do want some aftermath/Sam struggling with his past addiction. Not that I want poor Sam to suffer any more than he already has, but it was a big deal last season and with Sam's character in general. To do away with it so easily.... I just can't see the writers doing that. Maybe Sam was lying?

My other problem was the fan girl. Interjected some humor, but a bit too over the top for me. Could have done without it.

-Ok, someone already brought this up, but I re-iterate. How did Bobby get possessed? He is the one who told Sam and Dean about charms taht ward off possession in the first place....but again, I will let it go, because it made for a very dramatic scene. Except for the fact that:

-It was too obvious that it wasn't Bobby as soon as he went after Sam. Bobby simply doesn't do that. Bobby is like the anti-John. He doesnt verbally attack people in anger. He may yell out some painful truths to the boys, but the things he was saying to Sam went against every Bobby-code we've seen about sticking together and being family no matter what. They should have instantly picked up on that, no matter what Sam had done. Oh man, though, the look on Sam's face! That was absolutely crushing!!

Yeah, when he said that to Sam, I knew that was not Bobby because he'd never say that.

Poor Sam. I felt so bad for him in this episode with him feeling the need to apologize over and over and then just take the berating from everyone else. Course I felt for him in S4 and how he was so manipulated. Ultimately he made his own choices and is responsible for them, but for Dean to tell him he could no longer trust him....*crushed*...even though I knew that was what Dean was going to say, and I can't blame him for feeling that way right now. Great scene though.

-Meg. I am one of those that has a hard time accepting different actors playing a role, but I liked this actress. She really embodied the quirks of Meg that Nikki Aycox set up. And her and Dean's exchange gave us one of my two favourite lines from the ep: What is that? Peanut butter?

And I hated her! I hope to never see that one again. This is why I had a lot of reservation about bringing Meg back...too difficult to top Nikki Aycox's performance.

-The Lucifer vessel. I like Mark Pelligrino because of Lost. I have seen him do some great acting there, so I am confident in his abilities to portray Lucifer. The bloody crib would have been more powerful if I hadn't seen it in previews and spoilers (I am going to try for the first time to NOT look at any more spoilers this year so that I can be properly shocked at moments like this...we'll see how long my resolve lasts. )

Same here. When I saw his name released earlier for that role, I was very pleased with the choice.

-I know this is going to divide people, but I got shivers of excitement when Zach told Dean he was the Sword of Michael. I LOVE this twist of events! I didn't see it coming at all and I like all that it could imply. I think it also helps to humanise Dean again because like Zach says, Dean isn't going to stop Lucifer because he has some latent superpowers like Sam, he is just a human. A special human, but just a human.

-Dean realising that Michael needs his consent is a powerful moment, because it limits the angels' powers and gives some of it back to us mere mortals.

For a second I didn't quite like that twist, but the more I thought about it, the more I like it. Is it going to be a done deal at the end of the season and Dean eventually gives his consent? We'll have to wait and see. This is apparently going to be Dean's journey this season...the thing he struggles with.

-Lucifer's calm reasoning with the vessel was a well done scene. If you didn't know who Lucifer was, you could almost feel sorry for him. It also gave us the first glimmer that Mark can handle the humour aspect of Supernatural: Could you do me a favour there...Satan? And remind me to quit drinking before I go to bed? Nice wry delivery on that line.

Sympathy for the Devil..... Great title for this episode considering who he ultimately chose.

It is an interesting concept that the vessel has to give consent. And with that in mind, Lucifer goes for a decent man rather than someone with questionable character who might have given up consent maybe easier. He obviously has his reasons for choosing who he did. Quite manipulative there on Kripke's part to go for such a sympathetic vessel. These scenes were really good, imo. This will be interesting. Can't wait!

I thought this opener was quite good. I hate picking favorites, but at this moment I think I will still rank the Season 2 opener over this one, but it's tied with last season's.

[the fifth man]

This was even better the second time around. I picked up a few things I missed watching it last night, and my fiancee' loved it too. She loves the show, but can't stand the gore. So this one wasn't too bad for her to watch.

[spork67]

I really adored the season premiere. Everything was brilliant and Mark Pellegrino was just amazing. Seriously, Nick's story was hearbreaking. And he did such a good job of making it so damn believable. It was by far one of my favorite parts of the whole episode.

[the fifth man]

I really adored the season premiere. Everything was brilliant and Mark Pellegrino was just amazing. Seriously, Nick's story was hearbreaking. And he did such a good job of making it so damn believable. It was by far one of my favorite parts of the whole episode.

The whole episode was my favorite part of the episode.

[Krisz]

Fantastic as usual. Given what has happened, that Lucifer is loose on Earth, the part I found the most intense was the trust issue between Dean and Sam. It will be interesting as to see how this tension will affect how they work from now on.

I think the fact that it could be God intervening on occasion is an interesting addition to the mix. God being the all knowing being probably doesn't interefere for the reason that interfering could make things worse in ways that would cascade on and on. Lucifer could be the balance, yet needs to be kept in check. Interesting to see how the poor mortal humans fare being caught up in this eternal cosmic 'chess' game!

The uber fan made me cringe though! Guess that was the idea, spot on observation by the writers as usual!

[starg8fans]

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure I'm sold on the idea of God making his way onto the show and getting into the act. Not that I find it offensive as I'm not religious, but He has the potential to be too powerful. A minor act like this is okay, but I hope the writers do go at it with the concept that God has ultimately given man free will to decide his destiny...especially since the show loves to play with the idea of free will versus fated destiny.

I like that idea. Puts a bit more of a twist in the story if that's the case, but I do think the writers were strongly implying that God had a hand in that as well as Castiel's return.

I like the idea that God will have a hand at the end of this story arc, but I agree with you that the 'all powerful' angle has a certain danger to it. But I trust the writers not to pull the 'mysterious last minute save' card too often. They are too creative to have to resort to this whenever the boys get into a really tight spot. I think it was a good ploy this time because it was totally unexpected, and it added to the mystery.

As for the implications, this may very well be a red herring. It's a little too obvious, if you know what I mean...

Poor Sam. I felt so bad for him in this episode with him feeling the need to apologize over and over and then just take the berating from everyone else. Course I felt for him in S4 and how he was so manipulated. Ultimately he made his own choices and is responsible for them, but for Dean to tell him he could no longer trust him....*crushed*...even though I knew that was what Dean was going to say, and I can't blame him for feeling that way right now. Great scene though.

That's one of the things I love about this show, they won't let you take sides. You feel both sorry for and upset with both brothers. And to think what it took to get them (and us) to this point is just amazing.

For a second I didn't quite like that twist, but the more I thought about it, the more I like it. Is it going to be a done deal at the end of the season and Dean eventually gives his consent? We'll have to wait and see. This is apparently going to be Dean's journey this season...the thing he struggles with.

It is an interesting concept that the vessel has to give consent. And with that in mind, Lucifer goes for a decent man rather than someone with questionable character who might have given up consent maybe easier. He obviously has his reasons for choosing who he did. Quite manipulative there on Kripke's part to go for such a sympathetic vessel. These scenes were really good, imo. This will be interesting. Can't wait!

Very good point about giving consent. This gives Dean a certain clout over the angels, and he sure could do with some of that at this point! It will be interesting how this situation will end. BTW, I really LOL about the 'Angel Condom' part.

I never really thought about the character of the vessel an angel picks. I mean, his soul and emotions will be totally erased by the angel when he/she takes over. The way Castiel just walked past Jimmy's daughter who was in obvious distress in The Rapture showed that quite clearly.

[iolanda]

Do you think that it was on purpose, that the "I knew it scene" was about the exactly like the one in "Galaxy Quest"?
I first was a little bit puzzled by the scene, but then I thought that it might have been an homage.

All over all: great episode.

The cuts in the beginning were a little bit too hard and I think the timing was off - there must have been several hours with landing that plane, lending a car and driving to Chuck and drawing funny signs on the wall, and then Chuck is there and looks like the whole stuff with Cas has happened 10 minutes ago.

I liked the way they introduced Nick, and the way Lucifer lulled him into letting him in.

Poor Bobby. I didn't understand at first, that he is paralysed. Isn't it a little bit uncommon to hurt a spine by a stab like this? The scene with Demon!Bobby and Sam was very intense. I at first did not understand why Dean didn't intervene, but it is explained in the end.

Imho the thing which really hurt Deans trust was when Sam actively choose Ruby over him in the chapel, when he had the chance to just stop and listen.

[starg8fans]

The cuts in the beginning were a little bit too hard and I think the timing was off - there must have been several hours with landing that plane, lending a car and driving to Chuck and drawing funny signs on the wall, and then Chuck is there and looks like the whole stuff with Cas has happened 10 minutes ago.

I figure this episode went way over time, and they had to cut a scene that would have explained the blood glyph. I mean, they did have an awful amount of stuff to cover, so if it got a bit rushed in the end it's not surprising.

Poor Bobby. I didn't understand at first, that he is paralysed. Isn't it a little bit uncommon to hurt a spine by a stab like this?

I was wondering the same thing, but then Bobby talks about his 'game leg'. Maybe he cut through a major nerve when he stabbed himself, and only one leg is paralyzed.

Imho the thing which really hurt Deans trust was when Sam actively choose Ruby over him in the chapel, when he had the chance to just stop and listen.

That and when Sam walked out the door although Dean threatened that it would end their relationship. What I'm still missing is the two of them finding out that Zachariah changed Dean's message on Sam's voicemail. I sure hope they'll address this issue at some later point, it's another wedge that was driven between the two brothers.

[iolanda]

I figure this episode went way over time, and they had to cut a scene that would have explained the blood glyph. I mean, they did have an awful amount of stuff to cover, so if it got a bit rushed in the end it's not surprising.

Yeah, there was a lot of stuff going on, so cutting right there wasn't the worst choice, but it was a bit obvious.

I was wondering the same thing, but then Bobby talks about his 'game leg'. Maybe he cut through a major nerve when he stabbed himself, and only one leg is paralyzed.

I guess we'll have to see how they picture his disability in the end. I have a bunch of friends who have handicaps, and I tend to eye this topic sometimes a little bit too thorough.

That and when Sam walked out the door although Dean threatened that it would end their relationship. What I'm still missing is the two of them finding out that Zachariah changed Dean's message on Sam's voicemail. I sure hope they'll address this issue at some later point, it's another wedge that was driven between the two brothers.

Who wouldn't had walked out (<-gr?) in that situation? They had a large fight and were beyond angry in that moment. Both of them needed some time to calm down, and that was impossible in this room.
The manipulation of Deans message was much worse and I hope that they even that out more sooner than later.

[flameling]

My take:
1. God saved them and Cass becuase Dean is Michael's vessel, but perhaps Sam is God?
2. Glad to see Cass kick ass. Thelast time we saw him fight Alistair kicked his ass, which could be understandable and then Uriel immediately afterwards. I'm still hoping Cass kills Zach later.
3. I think Lucifer would have saved Sam for freeing him and convinced him to join him. God probably saved the two of them so Michael can lead a charge of angels vs. demons while God throws the devil into the lake of fire.
4. Finally a Winchester says no to self sacrifice! The lesson that the trickster tried to teach has been taught!
5. Poor Bobby.
6. I wonder how they'll be with Meg this season. Hard to beat Nikki's portrayal.