Supernatural Season 8 Spoiler Discussion -tags req for S9 spoilers

[majorsal]

Spoiler:

Well, he told Castiel to 'find me here in Heaven when you die and your soul comes here' which I take to mean he plans to be the only angel left there. After all, he punished the angels for driving him into exile on Earth, so why would he willingly exile himself to a life of mortality? Souls of angels don't go to Heaven when they die, so if Metatron had fallen with the rest, he wouldn't be able to meet Castiel again, as Castiel is now mortal and therefore his soul will go to heaven.

Essentially, it makes him the new God.

so where 'do' angels souls go when they die?

[Sparky She-Demon]

so where 'do' angels souls go when they die?

I thought that we didn't see the outline of Naomi's wings?

[Callista]

so where 'do' angels souls go when they die?

They've never told us that. They didn't appear to be in Purgatory, unless there are different levels of Purgatory. I'd guess maybe their "energy" gets sent back to the cosmos or something so there'd be no afterlife for them. (That is, until Supernatural eventually brings one back....)

[M@ster R]

I don't remember who it was atm but at one time one angel or someone in the series said that humans can be lucky because their souls live forth after their bodies die while the angels don't know what happens to them after death.
But when you think about what Metatron said to Cas it is pretty obvious that fallen angels become humans and thus their souls return to heaven after death.

[The Urban Spaceman]

But when you think about what Metatron said to Cas it is pretty obvious that fallen angels become humans and thus their souls return to heaven after death.

Not necessarily. Metatron only said that Castiel's soul would return to heaven—Metatron forced Castiel to become mortal by taking his grace, not by exiling him from heaven. If 'falling' was enough to cause an angel to become human, then Lucifer, and Anna (after she regained her grace but remained fallen) and Cas (when he was 'fallen' after Leviathans incident and provided his blood to Dean to send the Leviathans back to purgatory) would have been essentially powerless. I suspect when an angel 'falls' he/she retains some of their powers (depending on their level—lower level angels are severely weakened, whilst seraphim and arch-angels remain powerful) but they still have what makes them an angel—their grace. Only once grace is removed does the angel become mortal.

More can be read here: http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/Angels#Fallen_Angels

[M@ster R]

Yeah, I know how different sites see it. But in the end I think they just made it a bit too easy in Supernatural. They needed the blood of a fallen angel for fighting the Leviathans and then simply said that Cas was one. But he did not fall because he still had his grace and thus his angelic powers. Lucifer did not fall, either. Anna was the only one who truly fell but after she got her grace back she was not a fallen angel anymore, either.
Cas just fell right now because Metatron took his grace. And all the other angels seemed to have fallen, too. And just like Anna I guess they all become human in the process. At least until they get their graces back.
Another thing they did in SN that made no sense was that Cas lost his powers in season 5 because he was locked out from heaven. Makes no sense because he did not have that problem, after that. That Gabriel and Lucifer did not have this problem could be explained with them being archangels. But Metatron on the other hand is also just a regular angel and he did not lose his powers, either.
You now can explain that in several ways (and those wiki entires are not necessarily the truth but also just written by fans) but in the end it's just something where the producers of Supernatural didn't do a great job. In season 5 they probably feared that Cas might be a too powerful ally and so they made up the crap with the losing powers. Would have been better if they stayed at Cas being too busy in heaven to help out the brothers so much. Like in Stargate with the Asgard (although they could have shown the Asgard more often and did not have to make such a ****ty ending).
Btw angels normally become human when falling in other movies and stuff. Watch the movie "Gabriel" for example . Although there the angels also lose their power when cut off from heaven but they only become human when they truly fall.

[The Urban Spaceman]

But he did not fall because he still had his grace and thus his angelic powers. Lucifer did not fall, either.

And all the other angels seemed to have fallen, too. And just like Anna I guess they all become human in the process. At least until they get their graces back.

Except that Naomi categorically stated to Dean and Castiel that the result of Metatron's spell would cause "All angels to be banished, just as Lucifer was banished [to Earth]"

Another thing they did in SN that made no sense was that Cas lost his powers in season 5 because he was locked out from heaven. Makes no sense because he did not have that problem, after that.

In season 5, Castiel was just a 'normal' angel. After he was resurrected by God, "new and improved" in his own words, he is reinstated as a seraph (as he confirms to Dean and Benny [twice] in Purgatory).

That Gabriel and Lucifer did not have this problem could be explained with them being archangels.

And as with the seraphs, arch-angels do not lose their powers upon falling.

But Metatron on the other hand is also just a regular angel and he did not lose his powers, either.

Not all of them, no. Like Castiel in season 5, he still seems able to teleport and do other low-level angel things. But the dude knew everything on the angel tablet. I don't think he would have left heaven if it would have meant him being power-less. More than likely, he found a way around it, or merely knew enough to (like Gabriel) keep him hidden.

Btw angels normally become human when falling in other movies and stuff. Watch the movie "Gabriel" for example .

And if you watch "Dogma" you'll find out that Metatron is actually Alan Rickman, Loki the Trickster was actually the angel of Death, and Jesus was black. And if you watch Constantine, you learn that Gabriel is actually a halfbreed (half-angel, half-human), Balthazar is a demon-human halfbreed and that only halfbreeds are technically 'allowed' to interact with humanity. In SPN, the halfbreed role would fall to the Nephilim, which according to the actual book of Enoch are abominations.

In other words, stay within the SPN frame of reference. Because once you start pulling non-SPN films/programmes into it, and try to use them to justify your own SPN-theories, it opens the door for other people to do the same, and yet nothing is achieved as no other source, be it film, programme or Bible, is one-hundred percent in-keeping with SPN lore (otherwise, Uriel would have been an arch-angel, as would Metatron, and the angel of death would have been Azrael or Loki or hell, Discworld's skeletal anthropomorphic personification of death via a skeleton—take your pick).