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    #61
    Sorry for bumping a somewhat old thread, but I just wanted to comment on a couple of things

    (At this point in time, I haven't read any SPN Fanfic whatsoever -- though I am currently writing one. I do, however, like to think about things a lot, so wanted to add some cents).



    On the subject of Dean always depicted as sleeping in the bed nearest the door

    Originally posted by RodneyIsGodney View Post

    I noticed that too! And I often wondered where they got that from because I never noticed who slept in which bed.
    I must admit, I am guilty of this too (though as my fic doesn't follow the brothers all that much, I've only described it once). I think the premise comes from the fact that the door is the usual point of entry to a building, and especially so in a hotel/motel. Therefore, if something's going to come at you, it's usually going to be through the door. In my mind, John Winchester will have told a young Dean "Make sure you always take the bed nearest the door" before going off and leaving the brothers alone whilst he hunted. This way, the older, more knowledgeable and better-armed brother would be the first one any potential attacker might encounter. And I personally believe that this is a habit which would have stuck as the boys were growing up.

    Yes, I actually thought about this before I wrote it out in my fic, but it made me smile when I saw it questioned here -- it's good to know I'm not the only one who anally thinks about the minutiae.

    A lot of the other things 'nitpicked' are normally common-sense things like SPAG and being able to form coherent sentences. One thing pointed out which interested me though, was how (in particular), American fans of the show very easily pick up on non-standard US vocabulary. As a speaker of proper English () I'm trying really hard to ensure it's mostly Americanisms which end up in my fic (trunk and hood, rather than boot and bonnet, sidewalk rather than pavement, etc) and though I do use my normal spelling for words such as colour and sulphur (it's been sulphur here since the fourteenth century, dammit!) I do try my hardest to make sure that when my characters are speaking, they speak American English (unless they're from different countries, which some indeed are). Switching between the two is a ball-ache at times but I do think it adds to the authenticity.

    warrior_chic also mentioned realism (ie, knowing how far places are apart) and I absolutely agree. Most of the fics I read are relating to gaming (D&D, Mass Effect) and the authors usually tend to be very good on distances (it’s a nerd thing, I guess) but TV shows are, IMO, more... ‘available’ to Joe Public than, say, Neverwinter Nights or Baldur’s Gate. It would annoy the hell out of me if people starting making random stuff up about my country, so I can see why it irks a lot of fanfic readers. Personally I research -everything- before committing it to word; all my towns/cities are either real, or based off real ones, and I make sure I read up about a county and a state before I set a chapter in it, so I have a semi-decent idea about the geography, the weather, the land usage, the people, etc. I’ve learnt a lot about the US since I started writing my fic, and I’m sure there’s much, much more for me to learn. I really must visit it somebody. One thing I always fall over on, however, is street names. I am crap at coming up with US street names. I hear a lot about buildings being on ‘the corner of so and so’ when I watch American TV, which I really struggle to emulate, because roads here don’t really have corners and they’re rarely straight. If anyone wants to give me tips on good names for American streets, and how to phrase them, I’m all ears!

    On the subject of kid-vocabulary, I absolutely agree with RodneyIsGodney. I think some people are just absolutely clueless about child development.

    Shortening of names, particularly Dean -- Yes, that, I imagine, is annoying. There are some instances when it’s funny (Gabriel calling Lucifer “Luci” for example) and some instances where it’s necessary and fitting (“Castiel” is unnecessarily formal when ‘Cas’ or ‘Cass’ has already been established).

    Where Wincest is concerned I’ve yet to read any and don’t particularly want to. As mentioned by many (and by the characters themselves) they are brothers. I can understand the hurt/comfort aspect but they’re brothers. My mind just says AVOID. Mostly the same with any slash, really. I don’t mind reading about two characters going at it like bunnies, as long as it’s relevant to the story that’s being told, and those characters at that particular time. But I don’t want to read a whole story dedicated entirely to it. Similarly, I deem certain character relationships as too out-of-character to be feasible. For example, I can’t get my head around Wincest as the guys are brothers and clearly interested in women (despite Dean’s man-crush on Dr Sexy, MD). I’ve also observed that there’s a whooole lot of Dean/Castiel pairings out there (as mentioned above, haven’t read any) and if it’s just an elaboration of the already-established bromance then I could get on board with that, but I sorta see Castiel almost as an anti-Balthazar, ie, one of the most innocent and non-hedonistic angels ever to have fallen out of the sky. He worries about being in a brothel, whereas the first thing Balthazar does after coming to Earth is pretty much open his own. Therefore, I can’t really imagine a Dean/Cas slash pairing (nor do I want to, it would just ruin both characters for me).
    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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      #62
      Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post

      If anyone wants to give me tips on good names for American streets, and how to phrase them, I’m all ears!
      I don't write fan fic, or read much either but ^this I can help with

      If you stick with nature themed names, you can never go wrong. For example, Oak, Maple, Aspen. Also adding "dale" to the end of names will work, Glenndale, Ashdale, Oakdale, etc. Most every town has a Main St downtown. Every big city will have a Martin Luther King Dr or Blvd.

      Inside of towns, most are Streets and Avenues. In residential areas, that is where you see a lot of Drives, Courts and Circles [like Oak Drive, Maple Court and Cherry Circle.

      This is not all fact, and every city is different, but I think this might help.
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        #63
        Great, thanks very much! That's a huge help, and now I have a rough template for naming things.

        Apologies for RiG for taking over the thread. I now return it to the nit-picking.
        Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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          #64
          you are welcome and I love helping with stuff like this, so if you ever need anything else, please let me know. I also beta.
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            #65
            Cheers, consider yourself conscripted as my American Culture Advisor! If you don't mind, I'll send you a PM (or whatever equivalent this forum has, I forget) to bounce a couple of ideas off you. I don't normally ask for feedback/input until I've started publishing chapters, but I intend to write this story fully before publishing anything, because I don't want to keep an audience hanging from chapter to chapter, and it would be good to get some initial feedback from 1) a fan of the show, 2) somebody who doesn't read fanfic and might be a bit more impartial.

            Back on the nitpicking, I definitely agree with long author notes. I can tolerate a medium-sized note at the beginning, rather like a foreword, and if necessary at the end of a chapter to make a farewell speech, but when they're at the beginning and/or end of every chapter they just get soooo annoying if they're more than a few words. And even a few words can interrupt the flow of a story.

            Also, authors who break their own rules, or retcon badly. Once something's established in a story, everything relevant to it should conform to it, and if the rule has to be broken, it should be done so in a way that is understood by the readers. Similarly, established patterns of behaviour for a character should be maintained until the character brings them into question, to help establish realism and continuity. There's nothing worse than when an author starts writing a character doing things which goes against their very nature.
            Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
              Cheers, consider yourself conscripted as my American Culture Advisor! If you don't mind, I'll send you a PM (or whatever equivalent this forum has, I forget) to bounce a couple of ideas off you. I don't normally ask for feedback/input until I've started publishing chapters, but I intend to write this story fully before publishing anything, because I don't want to keep an audience hanging from chapter to chapter, and it would be good to get some initial feedback from 1) a fan of the show, 2) somebody who doesn't read fanfic and might be a bit more impartial.
              Awesome! PM me anytime.....
              sigpic

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                #67
                Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
                A lot of the other things 'nitpicked' are normally common-sense things like SPAG and being able to form coherent sentences. One thing pointed out which interested me though, was how (in particular), American fans of the show very easily pick up on non-standard US vocabulary. As a speaker of proper English () I'm trying really hard to ensure it's mostly Americanisms which end up in my fic (trunk and hood, rather than boot and bonnet, sidewalk rather than pavement, etc) and though I do use my normal spelling for words such as colour and sulphur (it's been sulphur here since the fourteenth century, dammit!) I do try my hardest to make sure that when my characters are speaking, they speak American English (unless they're from different countries, which some indeed are). Switching between the two is a ball-ache at times but I do think it adds to the authenticity.
                I don't mind the British spelling of words, that I can deal with. Centre vs center et.al. But making the boys speak "proper English" just drives me nuts!

                On the subject of kid-vocabulary, I absolutely agree with RodneyIsGodney. I think some people are just absolutely clueless about child development.
                Unless the child in question is very smart/gifted, then I can let it slide.

                Where Wincest is concerned I’ve yet to read any and don’t particularly want to. As mentioned by many (and by the characters themselves) they are brothers. I can understand the hurt/comfort aspect but they’re brothers. My mind just says AVOID. Mostly the same with any slash, really. I don’t mind reading about two characters going at it like bunnies, as long as it’s relevant to the story that’s being told, and those characters at that particular time. But I don’t want to read a whole story dedicated entirely to it.
                I agree. The other thing that makes me run way screaming is when the author uses words like "lover" to refer to either guy's significant other. Just...NO!!!

                Dean said it best when he said: "They do know we're brothers, right?" Right???

                Similarly, I deem certain character relationships as too out-of-character to be feasible. For example, I can’t get my head around Wincest as the guys are brothers and clearly interested in women (despite Dean’s man-crush on Dr Sexy, MD). I’ve also observed that there’s a whooole lot of Dean/Castiel pairings out there (as mentioned above, haven’t read any) and if it’s just an elaboration of the already-established bromance then I could get on board with that, but I sorta see Castiel almost as an anti-Balthazar, ie, one of the most innocent and non-hedonistic angels ever to have fallen out of the sky. He worries about being in a brothel, whereas the first thing Balthazar does after coming to Earth is pretty much open his own. Therefore, I can’t really imagine a Dean/Cas slash pairing (nor do I want to, it would just ruin both characters for me).
                God save me from all the Destialness on ff.net! I've read many an intriguing summary that was ruined by theDestial tag. Or the warning that it's a Dean/Cas fic. I see that and go "Aw Crap! That story looked really good too!" Or "Dammit! I would so read that if it wasn't Destial!" Because that aspect just puts a damper on the fic for me. I wanna see Dean raising a daughter just...NOT WITH CAS!!!

                Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
                ]
                Apologies for RiG for taking over the thread. I now return it to the nit-picking.
                No promlemo! That's what it's here for!
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                Sig by ME.

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                  #68
                  But making the boys speak "proper English" just drives me nuts!
                  Maybe they think they're preparing the boys for meeting the Queen.

                  Aw man, now I want to see SPN ripping off James Bond. Dean would make an excellent Bond -- he's even got an awesome car, though it's not an Aston. Sam could be Q, especially now that he's got his secret Men Of Letters base and the secret Men Of Letters decoder ring, he would make an excellent head of R&D. Bobby could have been M, but maybe now that job will have to fall to Cas. Or Garth could be M, and we could have Castiel take a chick as a vessel and be the Bond Girl.

                  I must find somebody to write this...

                  I agree. The other thing that makes me run way screaming is when the author uses words like "lover" to refer to either guy's significant other. Just...NO!!!
                  Have you seen the phrase "He's my brother and my lover" come up anywhere yet? You just know that you're going to have to end your life rather than live in a world which has that calibre of writing in it.

                  God save me from all the Destialness on ff.net! I've read many an intriguing summary that was ruined by theDestial tag. Or the warning that it's a Dean/Cas fic. I see that and go "Aw Crap! That story looked really good too!" Or "Dammit! I would so read that if it wasn't Destial!" Because that aspect just puts a damper on the fic for me. I wanna see Dean raising a daughter just...NOT WITH CAS!!!
                  I purposely never put character tags in my fics just so that people will have to read it to find out who's involved and judge the story for what it is, rather than who's screwing who (in my fics, people rarely get screwed in that sense, though sometimes they get metaphorically screwed). Granted, this probably means 90% of people who are searching for a particular pairing might never even glance at my stories, but I firmly believe in going for quality, not quantity.

                  Dean raising a daughter would be hilarious -- I can imagine the teenage years, they would involve him locking potential boyfriends in a small room and questioning them for hours about their intentions, followed shortly after by "the speech". All of this, of course, after future potential boyfriends have been subjected to assault by holy water, salt, and silver blade. I reckon that's probably enough to scare off most guys. And as Dean has been "that guy" who hits on anything with legs, he of course would know all the tricks in the book. Hell, he could probably rewrite the book. And even when his daughter is 35 and happily married, he'd probably still send Uncle Cas to check up on her from time to time.
                  Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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                    #69
                    Okay, reading a fic now where the author has given Dean a broken leg but decides that Dean can still walk. And then, once Dean reaches his destination (the Impala), the author describes his leg as "hanging at an unnatural angle". I mean, COME ON! REALLY??? Unrealistic much?

                    Obviously this person had never had a broken leg. Or a broken anything for that matter. When you break something it hurts like hell. It swells, bruises and you can't move it whatsoever. Believe me, I know. I broke the knuckle of my left middle finger in high school, playing basketball in gym class. Jammed it real good on the ball. It swelled up but good and I had to go to the hospital and get it taken care of. Had a splint taped to it. It went from the tip of my poor finger right to the middle of my palm. Well, it ran along under the finger, but still.


                    Spaceman, I am not ignoring you, I just had to get that off my chest. I will post a response to your post tomorrow as it is late now and I have to get to bed.
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                      #70
                      That's okay, I mostly post for my own amusement, not to get responses.

                      I do agree that the whole broken limb situation is just ridiculous, though. Even if the fracture isn't compound it is still a painful and often traumatic injury, and a broken leg should prevent walking completely. Maybe the author wrote Dean high on painkillers or something.
                      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
                        Maybe they think they're preparing the boys for meeting the Queen.
                        Hey, maybe!

                        Aw man, now I want to see SPN ripping off James Bond. Dean would make an excellent Bond -- he's even got an awesome car, though it's not an Aston. Sam could be Q, especially now that he's got his secret Men Of Letters base and the secret Men Of Letters decoder ring, he would make an excellent head of R&D. Bobby could have been M, but maybe now that job will have to fall to Cas. Or Garth could be M, and we could have Castiel take a chick as a vessel and be the Bond Girl.
                        I totally agree about Dean being an excellent Bond but...Cas as a Bond Girl? No offense but, that's just wrong. Jo should be the Bond Girl and Ellen should be M. She acted as an important maternal figure for him (in Casino Royale) and that is just what Ellen became for Dean (and Sam). And, yes Sam as Q makes perfect sense.

                        I must find somebody to write this...
                        Well, it won't be me. I'm not really that good. I mean, okay, yeah, the SPN role-playing game here on GW was my idea but I have stalled the RPG as it's been my turn to write something (for the last few months) and I have had the worst case of writer's block ever. I feel so bad for the other's involved.


                        Have you seen the phrase "He's my brother and my lover" come up anywhere yet? You just know that you're going to have to end your life rather than live in a world which has that calibre of writing in it.
                        No I haven't but you're absofeakinlutelyright.


                        I purposely never put character tags in my fics just so that people will have to read it to find out who's involved and judge the story for what it is, rather than who's screwing who (in my fics, people rarely get screwed in that sense, though sometimes they get metaphorically screwed). Granted, this probably means 90% of people who are searching for a particular pairing might never even glance at my stories, but I firmly believe in going for quality, not quantity.
                        Oh, you sneaky little thing you!

                        Dean raising a daughter would be hilarious -- I can imagine the teenage years, they would involve him locking potential boyfriends in a small room and questioning them for hours about their intentions, followed shortly after by "the speech". All of this, of course, after future potential boyfriends have been subjected to assault by holy water, salt, and silver blade. I reckon that's probably enough to scare off most guys. And as Dean has been "that guy" who hits on anything with legs, he of course would know all the tricks in the book. Hell, he could probably rewrite the book. And even when his daughter is 35 and happily married, he'd probably still send Uncle Cas to check up on her from time to time.
                        LOL! So true!


                        And, Dean pretty much did that in the fic I was reading last night. Well, in the last chapter anyway.

                        Those Left Behind <---the link in case you want to check it out. Takes you right to the last chapter. The story actually starts when she is a baby. It's not complete though. WIP.

                        Spoiler:
                        His adoptive daughter brings a boy home for him to meet and there Dean is polishing one of his guns while the rest are strewn about him. It was awesome. He was awesome! I think he really would do what he did in that chapter.


                        Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
                        That's okay, I mostly post for my own amusement, not to get responses.
                        Ah. Good.

                        I do agree that the whole broken limb situation is just ridiculous, though. Even if the fracture isn't compound it is still a painful and often traumatic injury, and a broken leg should prevent walking completely. Maybe the author wrote Dean high on painkillers or something.
                        Well, he had stolen some morphine from "some ladies house" but I wasn't sure when he was supposed to have done it. Maybe, maybe if you read it you might understand it better.
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                          #72
                          Thanks RiG, I had a read of that fanfic and whilst I'm happy I'm not mentally scarred by reading terrible, terrible slash things, it's reminded me of another fanfic pet-peeve: People who post short chapters! I don't know why, but chapters consisting of only a few hundred words irritate me. I'd rather see one well-written long chapter than several mediocre short ones. I get the impression that sometimes, people post short chapters to keep their stories up on the 'newly updated' lists and increase their hits/traffic.

                          Also another thing that irritates: Massive time jumps between chapters. Alright, sometimes we all have to do it, but if that's the case you really need to spend more than one or two sentences explaining the past 10 or so years, otherwise the story just lacks substance.

                          Aaaand one last thing: Calling Sam & Dean "boys" in the last chapter, when Dean's gotta be at least 45 years old by that point. Can't say I think much of that particular story, mostly it seems like fluff. Sorry if you do like it, though.
                          Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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                            #73
                            Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View Post
                            Thanks RiG, I had a read of that fanfic and whilst I'm happy I'm not mentally scarred by reading terrible, terrible slash things, it's reminded me of another fanfic pet-peeve: People who post short chapters! I don't know why, but chapters consisting of only a few hundred words irritate me. I'd rather see one well-written long chapter than several mediocre short ones. I get the impression that sometimes, people post short chapters to keep their stories up on the 'newly updated' lists and increase their hits/traffic.
                            You're welcome. And, yeah, her chapters are rather short. But, sometimes I don't mind short chapters. Like, when I'm up late, reading a fic in bed. I'll be like: I'll stop when I get to the end of the chapter. It's hard to do with long chapters, specially if your not a fast reader. But, I hate short chapters when the story is sooooo good you just want more!

                            Also another thing that irritates: Massive time jumps between chapters. Alright, sometimes we all have to do it, but if that's the case you really need to spend more than one or two sentences explaining the past 10 or so years, otherwise the story just lacks substance.
                            Yes, I agree! Specially with this story I linked to. I wanted to see more of little Jo with Dean.

                            Aaaand one last thing: Calling Sam & Dean "boys" in the last chapter, when Dean's gotta be at least 45 years old by that point.
                            I know what you mean but, they will always be The Winchester Boys to me.

                            Can't say I think much of that particular story, mostly it seems like fluff. Sorry if you do like it, though.
                            Hey, no need to apologize. To each their own.
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                              #74
                              Something else that irritates me, not necessarily about the stories, but about the writers; Begging for reviews. Or insinuating that if a story gets more reviews, then updates will be released faster. I have nothing against authors interacting with their audiences, but I dislike the review-whoring that often goes on. Personally, I update to a fixed schedule, so that readers know when the next update is coming -- if they want to review, that's great, but they can do so knowing that the story is something more than a review-farming piece of work.
                              Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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                                #75
                                I have read this particular one in a few now and it bugs me inordinately. I think the writers are pretty young, so maybe they just don't realize that if the Impala were to get wrecked, airbags would not go off because in 1967 airbags had not been invented yet. It amazes me that kids nowadays wouldn't know that a car exists that doesn't have them built in.
                                The thought that they would get put into Baby makes me cringe.
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