What's Past Is Prologue (113)

[P-90_177]

I'm thinking they are back in their own universe, but that their universe is not our universe (aka the prime universe).

Assuming the original series content is our universe (or TREK Prime), and the Terran universe in this episode is actually the same universe we all know and love from "Mirror, Mirror", then universe of "Destiny" could be a third universe. This would allow for the writers do pretty much anything they please in story development.

regards,
G.

Producers confirmed early on that it is the Prime universe... But, all that being said in an infinite multiverse there are universes where all the same events occur but they look completely different.

[Flash525]

[snip]

I don’t know if it all works, just thinking out loud here.

I get what you're saying, though I don't think it would be that simple; Starfleet suddenly having a few tough ships would still give the advantage to the other powers within the quadrant. Where warfare is concerned, quantity over quality must offer up the benefits, especially when you've got the Romulans and Klingons flying around up there with the ability to cloak themselves. Pretty sure Starfleet was involved in a war with the Tzenkethi around this time too - maybe a little later? Having a smaller, yet more durable fleet doesn't seem ... practical.

Needless to say, if this was indeed the case, then they didn't learn from it as they were quite happy sending the Miranda Class into battle some 100+ years later when up against the Dominion. By comparison the Shenzhou would be to the Miranda what the Constitution is to the Galaxy, or the other way around, but you know what I mean.

Slight problem with the bigger ships theory though. I was gonna do a separate thread on this anyway but according to the official scaling of the Discovery and Shenzhou they are 700m and 430m respectively. Making them both bigger than the Constitution's established length of 288m.

Wow, really? I didn't know this. You'd think it would have made more sense to slot this show into the reboot universe; that would at least have explained the size variations - we know the reboot Connie is far lager than the TOS Connie.

I'm thinking they are back in their own universe, but that their universe is not our universe (aka the prime universe).

Producers confirmed early on that it is the Prime universe... But, all that being said in an infinite multiverse there are universes where all the same events occur but they look completely different.

An unfortunate truth. STD is set in the same timeline as TOS Kirk, TNG Picard and ENT's Archer (etc). I'd fully agree that it doesn't seem like it fits, and I could ultimately list all the reasons why, but I guess that's irrelevant.

STD should have been a small screen reboot; they could have used existing lore to create a background for their new universe, much alike the reboot films did, and they'd then not have to worry about consistently lining up the timeline. The problem with setting a show, or this show up with existing lore is that, long term, they're going to have too many obstacles. STD is set what, ten years before Kirk's TOS? Not that it'll likely get ten seasons, but if it does, then what? We'd be seeing Constitutions and D7's everywhere, and if we didn't, everyone would be asking why. If/when STD wraps up and they someone decides to do a sequel, they're going to have to (again) slot it in carefully thus to avoid corrupting an already established timeline.

A reboot would have been so much easier on everyone; redesigned ships, redesigned species, redesigned clothing, the works, but no. It's a decision that'll forever baffle me.

[DigiFluid]

I get what you're saying, though I don't think it would be that simple; Starfleet suddenly having a few tough ships would still give the advantage to the other powers within the quadrant. Where warfare is concerned, quantity over quality must offer up the benefits, especially when you've got the Romulans and Klingons flying around up there with the ability to cloak themselves. Pretty sure Starfleet was involved in a war with the Tzenkethi around this time too - maybe a little later? Having a smaller, yet more durable fleet doesn't seem ... practical.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. In wartime, 10 top of the line tanks that cost a fortune are never going to be the military's first choice if someone else offers them 100 so-so tanks at half the price.

Re: Tzenkethi conflict, I don't think there's any fight with them at this point. I mean granted maybe we've just never heard about it before, but the only time Trek has mentioned them in the past is when Sisko said he fought in the war against them when he was younger. And since Sisko isn't even born till something like 75 years after when Discovery is set...

An unfortunate truth. STD is set in the same timeline as TOS Kirk, TNG Picard and ENT's Archer (etc). I'd fully agree that it doesn't seem like it fits, and I could ultimately list all the reasons why, but I guess that's irrelevant.

Nah I think that's just being needlessly nitpicky (though that's what us Trekkies are best at, isn't it? )

We all had the same conversations about Enterprise when it was first on. It took four seasons for it to finally start linking itself to the world we knew from TOS, which rendered a lot of the early complaints moot. Not all of them, I know, but enough to make lots of them look frivolous in hindsight.

And now, 13 years after it came to its ignominious end, virtually nobody bats an eye: "Yeah, it's Star Trek. And?"

[Flash525]

Tzenkethi conflict, I don't think there's any fight with them at this point. I mean granted maybe we've just never heard about it before, but the only time Trek has mentioned them in the past is when Sisko said he fought in the war against them when he was younger. And since Sisko isn't even born till something like 75 years after when Discovery is set...

You're right in that Sisko fought in (a) war against them, it's implied on Memory Alpha that the war Sisko fought in wasn't the first, and that there had been a couple of conflicts with them. Needless to say, regarding a TOS era war, I had mixed up the Tzenkethi with the Knziti (a species that only made an appearance in the animated series); not entirely sure that's considered canon.

Nah I think that's just being needlessly nitpicky (though that's what us Trekkies are best at, isn't it? )

It's a damn fine attribute if you ask me!

We all had the same conversations about Enterprise when it was first on. It took four seasons for it to finally start linking itself to the world we knew from TOS, which rendered a lot of the early complaints moot. Not all of them, I know, but enough to make lots of them look frivolous in hindsight.

And now, 13 years after it came to its ignominious end, virtually nobody bats an eye: "Yeah, it's Star Trek. And?"

I suppose you're right to some degree, though (as far as I remember) Archer and the NX-01 didn't invent technology - never to be heard about again, nor did it (seemingly) change history; whilst not defeated, the Federation certainly seems to be in some serious need of help at this point. It'll sure be interesting to see how this all unfolds, and where season 2 takes us.

As discussed earlier, there's a lot going around that S2 is going to focus more on exploration and traditional trek, which I hope is not the case; I don't mind exploration, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather move on from traditional trek. Season 1 of Discovery has been great, and I feel a traditional touch is going to ruin it and numb it down.

[GodAtum]

A lot of us where wrong in saying that the mycinial network needed to be destroyed because it does not exist in any future Star Trek.

Also, remember the ep when Burnham talked to the Klingon rebel leader on the planet. I hope they don't forget about that story line, and use her knowledge to end the war peacefully.

I was rolling my eyes through the entire ep though, and this post sums my thoughts up nicely:

I keep asking myself: what’s left? Where can we go from here that will deliver on those early promises that Discovery seems to have thrown away? I want to love Discovery whole-heartedly, and I have loved many, many things about its journey so far. But at the moment, it’s hard not to feel like all of the foundations we thought we knew were actually built on quicksand, and we’re going under.

[Kilgharrah]

You know it's actually a good thing when what you expect to happen on a show doesn't really happen. That's called good writing.