Should they give Trek the BSG treatment?

[spg_1983]

I wouldn't go that far. Section 31 was a great arc because it added depth to the ST universe, but they can't go too dark otherwise it stops being ST. The point of the ST universe is that the human race has achieved a utopian society. The problem is that in creating that fictitious society they have eliminated the humanity in the characters. DS9 was the best at reclaiming it during the Dominion War because we saw the more military side of ST, but they were still fighting for the ideals they believe in and not willing to compromise those ideals to win. A Section 31 or black ops show would not work because that would not be what ST is about. Thats why Section 31 was so secret and black, it's existence was antithesis to the nature of the Federation and ST as a whole. Im not getting into a debate about the right and wrongs of Section 31 because that would be a different thread. The new ST series needs to be more like BSG in the writting of the characters. With BSG you don;t actually know what the characters are always going to do, and that makes the characters real. With ST you know that the characters will ALWAYS make the right decisions for the right reasons by the end of the last act. (Again we saw some of this slacken at various point in some of the series like the War in DS9 or Janeway towards the end of VOY but Im talking about the genre as a whole.) The new series needs to still be ST in that the characters (well the Starfleet officers at least) ultimately really believe in the ideals of the Federation and the principles it stands for, but have to be human at the same time. And they cant always be portrayed as ultimatly making the "right" decision either. They need to be shown to fail. Make the wrong decision for the right reasons. Give in to their human nature at times. Be afraid and make the wrong call out of fear. But ultimately they still need to be "the good guys" at the end of the day. BSG th question of "who are the good guys and who is the bad guys?" is one of the core elements of the show, the same doesn;t hold true for ST. The Federation and Starfleet are ultimately the good guys and as a whole try to do the right thing, you can't change that with out no longer being ST and a Section 31/black ops show would do just that.

[HirogenGater]

The Federation and Starfleet are ultimately the good guys and as a whole try to do the right thing, you can't change that with out no longer being ST and a Section 31/black ops show would do just that.

Not necessarily, I was thinking along the lines of people in Starfleet somehow getting involved in this organization somewhat against their will, and being forced to deal with some of the morality problems working for them can cause. So far, we have seen Bashir and Reed very reluctant to work for them but agreeing to do it. Well, thinking back Bashir really was a different story, he’s a bad example. However, I really liked what they were doing the Reed in ENT.

[spg_1983]

Not necessarily, I was thinking along the lines of people in Starfleet somehow getting involved in this organization somewhat against their will, and being forced to deal with some of the morality problems working for them can cause. So far, we have seen Bashir and Reed very reluctant to work for them but agreeing to do it. Well, thinking back Bashir really was a different story, he’s a bad example. However, I really liked what they were doing the Reed in ENT.

Yes and as a sub arc within the major arcs of the show it would be awesome, but devoting a whole series too it would be too much and wouldn't be ST.

[Nathan]

Not necessarily a whole show about it but certainly greater detail about the darker side of humanity.

ST is nothing but good? Hmmm given the right circumstances even good guys go bad....

Perhaps have a Captain that is a former member of section 31 trying to battle his inner demons while in command of a star ship - or a first officer that was a member rather than a whole series of "Star Trek: Section 31"

They need a darker character in there and they need to explore more of humanities underbelly rather than the tried and over done method of humanity being perfection personified.

[spg_1983]

ST is nothing but good? Hmmm given the right circumstances even good guys go bad.....

No, but it is supposed to represent an ideal and an attempt to be that ideal. Gene Rodenberry's vision was of a future where humanity had gotten beyond the wars and divisions and conflicts that have wracked history and attained a near utopian society. However I do not believe Rodenberry ever envisioned the humans of the future not still having the everyday human foibles and internal conflicts. If the show is still going to be about Star Fleet officers, and Im not saying it exclusively needs to be, over all those officers have to still be the embodiment of the ideals that the Federation and Starfleet stand for at least in their intent. Section 31 was supposed to been seen as an abberation. They are a non existent agency because everything they did was antithesis to the Federations ideals. Starfleet intelligence runs intelligence gathering operations and the like, but they could not be shown to be running real black ops missions because that is not what Starfleet and the Federation does.

Perhaps have a Captain that is a former member of section 31 trying to battle his inner demons while in command of a star ship - or a first officer that was a member rather than a whole series of "Star Trek: Section 31"

This is a bit better idea but for me it still gives Section 31 to much legitamacy.

I actually have a question for the folks that watched all of ENT. I didn't follow it closely at all after the second season but I know they got into the Section 31/black ops thing a bit later and dealt with the creation of the Federation and Starfleet. Section 31 was supposed to have gotten its name from the Secret 31st section of the Federation or Starfleet charter. Was that addressed at all? Since Archer was the one to sign for earth, wouldn't he have known?

[Apophis87]

Well, I try to ignore the many mistakes in Enterprise. I realized pretty early in the show that if you think of it as a Star Trek series, it sucks, because there are so many mistakes. But if you just watch it as a sci fi show, it's not too bad.

As for ideas for a new, perhaps slightly darker show, I think they should do a series based on the Star Trek:New Frontier books. Captain Calhoun is kind of a darker, more brutal character than the captains from the shows, and there is a little bit more BSG-ness in New Frontier. And the best thing about it, is there are already good characters and a good plot, so it would be hard to screw it up.

[dec55]

It would be different.......I say get rid of all the alien make up and have most of the races more
human like the new BSG. Make all the Uniforms based on more historical designs instead of TV designs (Jumpsuits that look kinda stiff.)....
and story lines less PC....and you might have show that is cool to watch........

But some Trekkers may have issues with taking away the campiness of the show(Trekkie Uniforms and
alien make up...etc..just ask the TOS BSG fans..)

[Dahak]

When ST makes it back on tv hopefully they will have learned from their mistakes.
Hire a continuity Czar. I understand that it would be hard to fit things in with the other series but the show should at least be internally consistent.
Write an entire season. There can be changes as the season progresses but it has to all make sense at the end.
Compress time. The Ryker is the greatest XO in the fleet but stayed in the same place for 13 years was dumb. First there should have been a reason and second it should have only been 2 or 3 years no matter how many seasons it actually was.
Think things through. Fine Gene R. thought Wesley was a good character. But explaining away the danger issues by saying, "this is not a warship" when it clearly was is just lazy.

[Morbo]

no because starfleet and the federation aren't like that.
they are peaceful explorers living in a mostly peaceful galaxy.
BSG is a much different storyline.

[spg_1983]

no because starfleet and the federation aren't like that.
they are peaceful explorers living in a mostly peaceful galaxy.
BSG is a much different storyline.

The Federation and Starfleet are peaceful explorers, but humans are still humans. Plus the alien species that they encounter are not the clean cut people that starfleet is. The Dominion was the best alien power they have shown because they actually portrayed them as really antithesis to the Federation.

[Wolf Eire]

It would be different.......I say get rid of all the alien make up and have most of the races more
human like the new BSG. Make all the Uniforms based on more historical designs instead of TV designs (Jumpsuits that look kinda stiff.)....
and story lines less PC....and you might have show that is cool to watch........

But some Trekkers may have issues with taking away the campiness of the show(Trekkie Uniforms and
alien make up...etc..just ask the TOS BSG fans..)

I'm sorry but take that away and what you are left with is not ST. It's a Nu-BSG clone. From what I see BSG is a fine show in its own right and leave it that way. It's a pioneer in its path. You would be taking the biggest ever Sci-Fi franchise to copy a model used by another one. What is the point? To what end? You would be slapping the ST name on something that is not ST. If the values that have worked for ST are not good enough anymore then it can die on its own sword rather than copy someone else's formula. ST has its own unique formula and take as does Stargate and BSG. To be honest it can be refreshing to watch something a little more optimistic in outlook and ideal after another day of the of the everyday cynicism that is real life.

[Hamyseven]

I'm sorry but take that away and what you are left with is not ST. It's a Nu-BSG clone. From what I see BSG is a fine show in its own right and leave it that way. It's a pioneer in its path. You would be taking the biggest ever Sci-Fi franchise to copy a model used by another one. What is the point? To what end? You would be slapping the ST name on something that is not ST. If the values that have worked for ST are not good enough anymore then it can die on its own sword rather than copy someone else's formula. ST has its own unique formula and take as does Stargate and BSG. To be honest it can be refreshing to watch something a little more optimistic in outlook and ideal after another day of the of the everyday cynicism that is real life.

This is a very good point. ST does have a very unique flavor to it and now that I have heard a lot of good arguments in both directions, I would have to say that I agree that ST should be left alone. (Yes, I know that I am the one who asked the question in the first place.) ST really really really needs a good shot in the arm to help it recapture the glory it once had. It was damaged greatly by ENT IMO. I would love to see a new series but one set in the TNG - DS9 - VOY time period. BSG and both Stargates are extremely good and well written. I hope that all of them live long and prosper.

[the Fifth Race]

Star Trek will be back in both movies and a TV series in the future. It has way to many fans and way to much money to be made. Hopefully they learned from the Enterprise debacle about going backwards.

I see the best way for a new trek TV series to succeed is to start it off based in the distant future (26th century) where the technology, starships, alien races and Starfleet itself are all new and different (not to mention all new actors and characters) compared to the time line that TNG, DS9 and Voyager happened. I really believe this would be a great premise to launch a new series!.

[l33tn00b]

I agree, I think the premise should be near future, where section 31 causes some kind of civil war between the federation, perhaps even VOY TNG DS9 timeline this helps because

No more exploring, or particle of the week episodes

Uniform changes, if there is a civil war, and different sides of humans join, they wouldnt want to be wearing same uniforms.

Gives cohesive plot. I loved the x-files and voyager because there was a dominanat storyline that stringed everything together. TNG had too much random crap.

Gritty warfare episodes like the siege of AR-558 were nice because they showed actual land combat/defense tactics. More of those

No more damned peace protocols!

[rarocks24]

I seriously think that the next Star Trek series should chronicle the Romulan Civil War? Isn't that where they left off in Nemesis. The Romulan government all died off. I'm sure there it would be various parties involved. And whatever happened to the Romulan reformists we've learned about from TNG? Nemesis would lead great into a show. And we can have Admiral Sela as bad guy (except I'm sure she looks hotter now than she did then, what with all the cosmetics improvement stuff).