Deep Space 9 Superior

[the Fifth Race]

Alien Batter: Aggressive. Adversarial.
Sisko: Competition, for fun. It's a game that Jake and I play on the holodeck. It's called 'baseball'!
Jake Prophet: Baseball? What is this?
Sisko: I was afraid you'd ask that.

LOL, you guy's crack me up!. Take me Out to the Holosuite is one of those "stand alone" episodes from DS9 that I absolutely loved (of course being a big Baseball fan helped). The love that Sisko showed for the game of Baseball is something I totally understand and revel in. Those Vulcans sure played well, didn't they.

[the Fifth Race]

When we first watched TNG and DS9, my brother thought Worf was kind of boring because he was so serious all the time. I told him that he does have his moments, and that it's a kind of subtle "unintentional intentional" humor (to borrow a phrase from baseball lore). Another good moment from our dear Mr. Worf (from "Shadows and Symbols"--another unintentionally intentionally humorous moment)

Very subtle humor. But like you said he did have his moments, especially when Jadzia and him became an item. Some of the best Worf storylines surround him and females (Klingon or otherwise). I also like the fact that he made an effort to make himself more likable and show a sense of humor to his friends and fellow comrades after a little chiding by both the respective TNG and DS9 crews.

I just read on Yahoo Sports that the SF Giants signed Freddy Sanchez to a 2 year $12,000,000 contract. I LOVE Fredddy Sanchez and what he brings to the table (if healthy of course). He is one of the best clutch hitters in the game, and his defense is better than what we have had at 2nd base in along time.

[Cold Fuzz]

DS9 Season IV Episode Discussion
Episode #80 The Sword of Kahless

I remember a friend of mine told me that in one of the DS9 novels (I unfortunately haven't read any of them) the sword is eventually discovered again and plays a pivotal role in Klingon politics. I believe the title of the book is The Left Hand of Destiny. That's very appropriate given Worf's final line about the sword.

I also felt that there was some kind of mystical property to the sword. I remember when my brother and I watched it a long time ago, he said it seemed as if the sword were making Dax, Word, and Kor turn on each other. He sparked an interesting idea about the sword that it amplifies the wielder's pride. I suppose in a strange way, it functioned the way Sauron's Ring did in Lord of the Rings.

The episode built upon Dax and Kor's previous time together in fighting the Albino and very effectively set in motion what was coming with "Once More Unto the Breach."

Baseball....
It looks so very simple but diving into it is like reading a book written in ancient Vulcan. At least for me.

Alien Batter: Aggressive. Adversarial.
Sisko: Competition, for fun. It's a game that Jake and I play on the holodeck. It's called 'baseball'!
Jake Prophet: Baseball? What is this?
Sisko: I was afraid you'd ask that.

For the uninitiated, baseball can seem like a sport that is overly simplistic or overly complicated. I'll be the first to admit that baseball's subtleties are kind of lost to people who have only a passing familiarity with the sport.

The details, strategy, and heart involved gets me pretty passionate--very much the way DS9 does. I think thread is one of the very few places where I can somehow discuss both simultaneously. I don't know too many baseball fans who like science fiction and conversely, I don't know too many sci-fi people who are fond of baseball or any other sports for that matter. That's what make this thread so great.

Don't worry, I won't be mixing my sci-fi and baseball metaphors too often.

I just read on Yahoo Sports that the SF Giants signed Freddy Sanchez to a 2 year $12,000,000 contract. I LOVE Fredddy Sanchez and what he brings to the table (if healthy of course). He is one of the best clutch hitters in the game, and his defense is better than what we have had at 2nd base in along time.

I heard about that too! One more piece of the puzzle out of the way. It's just a matter of keeping the right people (Penny) and finding more ways to shore up their bats.

LOL, you guy's crack me up!. Take me Out to the Holosuite is one of those "stand alone" episodes from DS9 that I absolutely loved (of course being a big Baseball fan helped). The love that Sisko showed for the game of Baseball is something I totally understand and revel in. Those Vulcans sure played well, didn't they.

Take Me Out to the Holosuite is an episode that I turn to from time to time to cheer me up, especially when life starts to get a little stressful. To a lot of people who don't "get" baseball, it's kind of a wasted episode but I disagree. Baseball is an integral part of Sisko's character and his interactions with everyone showed how deeply the sport is ingrained into his spirit--especially in light of the fact that one of the very first images the Prophets showed him was a baseball field.

An interesting thing to note about that episode is that in real life, the actors who play Jake, Rom, Nog, and Weyoun are actually rather skilled at the sport. We get hints of this on the DVD commentaries when we see them interviewed.

In order to get Rom to look like he can't play baseball, the producers had Max Grodénchik bat and throw left-handed. He is naturally right-handed. Aron Eisenberg loved that episode as well, as he got a chance to show off his skills. Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun) was actually rather jealous that he wouldn't be able to be in the episode. I suppose a Vorta in a baseball field wouldn't work out too well.

[Krisz]

I really don't get on this thread now as much as I'd like, RL and all!

Great to see new people, welcome to the thread Cold Fuzz!

I felt the same way as you about this thread when I found it here on GW. I really couldn't believe that I'd found a place where there were others that really liked DS9. I honestly felt I was the only person that liked this incarnation of Trek, and felt sad that there was no one else I could chat to about it, because everyone else liked TNG, VOY or TOS and thought DS9 was "depressing." They really didn't see the subtly reworked view of the Trek universe that DS9 gave us, and the wonderfully crafted characters.

This thread is great for chatting about our favourite subject of course, but it's just wonderful chatting to everyone about other things too. I love the wide variety of interests that everyone on here have, it's great to lurk sometimes and just 'listen' to discussions and learn more about DS9 and Trek background info from some of the really knowledgeable ones on this thread..

My pleasure brother Fuzz (that sounds better LOL). Just call me brother Fifth.

Brothers Starbase and USS Defiant (you know we all grew up together and still live near each other) used to go to all the Star Trek conventions they used to hold in San Francisco (at least 2 or 3 a year back in the day). And I remember at one of the conventions they had "DS-Niners" baseball caps for sale (just like the ones in the episode). We all bought one and wore it proudly. I still have mine tucked away in one of boxes full of Trek collectables. I also love the fact that Sisko thought of Willie Mays as his favorite player of all-time (besides being the greatest baseball player ever).

That screen-shot of Sisko in full battle mode is simply awesome!. Thanx again brother Fuzz.
Indeed and great call.

I really hope my studies and job prospects work out and I end up getting enough money for my long awaited return visit to San Francisco. I would love to meet up with you, Starbase and Defiant and talk DS9 with you wonderfully knowledgeable Trek personages! ..and see all those wonderful bits of Trek collectables you talk about. You will all have to come visit me in the land of Stargate one day too!

Love the Worf Appreciation Society! He really did come into his own on DS9, through him we got to learn more about Klingons in a way I don't think we would have otherwise. It's his interactions with his fellow Klingons and how his perspective seemed to question much of what the Klingons were about that made all those Klingon episodes so much fun to watch.

[Karhedron]

Don't worry, I won't be mixing my sci-fi and baseball metaphors too often.

Oh I don't mind. Go ahead and mix

Take Me Out to the Holosuite is an episode that I turn to from time to time to cheer me up, especially when life starts to get a little stressful. To a lot of people who don't "get" baseball, it's kind of a wasted episode but I disagree. Baseball is an integral part of Sisko's character and his interactions with everyone showed how deeply the sport is ingrained into his spirit--especially in light of the fact that one of the very first images the Prophets showed him was a baseball field.

Don't see how this would be a wasted episode. I think it is about passion. And the risk of that passion to convert to fanatism. I think a lot of people can understand that.
Getting out of sight of the most important things, because you are too focused on something.
I think this episode helped in giving Sisko a more human touch. He has his flaws and his strengths. Here he is showing both at the same time.

Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun) was actually rather jealous that he wouldn't be able to be in the episode. I suppose a Vorta in a baseball field wouldn't work out too well.

Oh yes I can see that :
Holosuite before the outbreak of the war. Weyoun in full Baseball-outfit is batting some balls pitched by a Jem'Hadar. Sisko enters.
Weyoun (smiling): Captain Sisko. What a pleasure to meet you!
Sisko (agitated) : I am not in the mood for small-talk Weyoun. What are you doing in the holosuite using one of my personal programs ?
Weyoun (deeply shocked): It is? That Ferengi didn't tell me. If I would have known, then I would...
Sisko (impatient) : I don't want to hear it. What do you want on DS9?
Weyoun (smiling): Oh Captain. There really is no need for such hostility. I just thought I would pay you a visit like neighbors should. And in an effort to understand you better I found this little program. This 'sport' is fascinating. So archaic. Just like you. I think I already understand you a lot better just by playing this game.
Sisko (calm) : Good. If you understand me that good, you will already know, what I am going to tell you next.
Weyoun (confused) : Understanding you wouldn't mean I could read your mind. That might prove interesting, though yet maybe a bit uncomfortable for both of us.
Sisko (low voice) : Fine. Then read my lips : Get the heck off my baseballfield and, while you are at it, get the heck off my station too.
Weyoun (angry) : I am disappointed Captain Sisko. I pay you a friendly visit and show interest in your activities and THIS is what I get? (hands Sisko the bat) Take this club. It surely fits your caveman manners.
Sisko (smiling) : It is called a bat.
Weyoun : (waving to the Jem'Hadar,turning around and leaving the holosuite)

[the Fifth Race]

I felt the same way as you about this thread when I found it here on GW. I really couldn't believe that I'd found a place where there were others that really liked DS9. I honestly felt I was the only person that liked this incarnation of Trek, and felt sad that there was no one else I could chat to about it, because everyone else liked TNG, VOY or TOS and thought DS9 was "depressing." They really didn't see the subtly reworked view of the Trek universe that DS9 gave us, and the wonderfully crafted characters. .

The details, strategy, and heart involved gets me pretty passionate--very much the way DS9 does. I think thread is one of the very few places where I can somehow discuss both simultaneously. I don't know too many baseball fans who like science fiction and conversely, I don't know too many sci-fi people who are fond of baseball or any other sports for that matter. That's what make this thread so great.

We may be advertised as the DS9 superior thread (and most of the love goes to DS9) - but we talk about any and all Star Trek shows or movies, we also talk any other scifi show or movie as well. And if it goes off subject, so be it - it always comes back around to the greatness that is DS9.

DS9 and Star Trek in general is fantastic subject matter, but it's the people that post on here (the family), that is what makes this thread humm. I have never forgotten that and I never will. No matter if we agree or disagree, everyone always maintains utter respect for each other. It has always been that way and it always will, I just know it. Now that is a testament to the type of people that like the same kind of scifi as we do. Trekkies and Gaters rule!.

I really got do one of "All Purpose Trek Quizzes" here in the next couple weeks. Then you can see another fun-side of this thread.

For the uninitiated, baseball can seem like a sport that is overly simplistic or overly complicated. I'll be the first to admit that baseball's subtleties are kind of lost to people who have only a passing familiarity with the sport.

As they saying goes - it's the "sweet science". The nuances and game-play in Baseball are rather complicated and very hard to master. To me it's the most beautiful sport that has ever been (plus I was pretty darn good at it. I played 3rd base and back-up catcher at the College of Marin back in the mid-1980's).

By the way it's great to see you back on the superior thread Lady Kris. And thank you for the kind words. You are truly one of the stars that make this place shine.

[Cold Fuzz]

Oh yes I can see that :
Holosuite before the outbreak of the war. Weyoun in full Baseball-outfit is batting some balls pitched by a Jem'Hadar. Sisko enters.
Weyoun (smiling): Captain Sisko. What a pleasure to meet you!
Sisko (agitated) : I am not in the mood for small-talk Weyoun. What are you doing in the holosuite using one of my personal programs ?
Weyoun (deeply shocked): It is? That Ferengi didn't tell me. If I would have known, then I would...
Sisko (impatient) : I don't want to hear it. What do you want on DS9?
Weyoun (smiling): Oh Captain. There really is no need for such hostility. I just thought I would pay you a visit like neighbors should. And in an effort to understand you better I found this little program. This 'sport' is fascinating. So archaic. Just like you. I think I already understand you a lot better just by playing this game.
Sisko (calm) : Good. If you understand me that good, you will already know, what I am going to tell you next.
Weyoun (confused) : Understanding you wouldn't mean I could read your mind. That might prove interesting, though yet maybe a bit uncomfortable for both of us.
Sisko (low voice) : Fine. Then read my lips : Get the heck off my baseballfield and, while you are at it, get the heck off my station too.
Weyoun (angry) : I am disappointed Captain Sisko. I pay you a friendly visit and show interest in your activities and THIS is what I get? (hands Sisko the bat) Take this club. It surely fits your caveman manners.
Sisko (smiling) : It is called a bat.
Weyoun : (waving to the Jem'Hadar,turning around and leaving the holosuite)

Now Jeffrey Combs can hit pretty well apparently, so Weyoun could conceivably "surprise" Sisko with his hand/eye coordination.

I really got do one of "All Purpose Trek Quizzes" here in the next couple weeks. Then you can see another fun-side of this thread.
As they saying goes - it's the "sweet science". The nuances and game-play in Baseball are rather complicated and very hard to master. To me it's the most beautiful sport that has ever been (plus I was pretty darn good at it. I played 3rd base and back-up catcher at the College of Marin back in the mid-1980's).

I look forward to the quiz. And indeed, there are so many subtleties to baseball, like when to put in a relief pitcher and when not to put in a relief pitcher, situational hitting, etc. I love it.

[Rac80]

hyey krisz!! good to see you pop in now and then. RL gets busy at times doesn't it?
I like the Worf appreciation line... we are subgroup of the thread I guess. I too thought worf really came into his own on ds9. On tng they mostly used him as the silent muscle. (another reason ia m not a fan of tng ) I loved the relationship between him and dax and him and yoshi(?) the obrien's baby boy....very cute.

[Krisz]

Now Jeffrey Combs can hit pretty well apparently, so Weyoun could conceivably "surprise" Sisko with his hand/eye coordination.

I look forward to the quiz. And indeed, there are so many subtleties to baseball, like when to put in a relief pitcher and when not to put in a relief pitcher, situational hitting, etc. I love it.

I don't think I'll ever understand what baseball is about and the attraction of it. Being from the UK originally I guess I wouldn't! The closest game to baseball we had in the UK was a game called Rounders that was only played by schoolchildren back in the deep distant past when I was at school! I don't recall my kids saying they played it at school.

It goes to show how good DS9 is that I could find "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" entertaining. Mainly for the fact of seeing aliens dressed up in the baseball outfits trying to work out what they're supposed to do with the 'stick' thing. I could relate to their confusion! The X-Files had an entertaining baseball loving alien episode too. What is it about baseball that attracts aliens?!

[Rac80]

Male aliens... there is something about guys liking to play with balls.....

[Starbase]

It goes to show how good DS9 is that I could find "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" entertaining. Mainly for the fact of seeing aliens dressed up in the baseball outfits trying to work out what they're supposed to do with the 'stick' thing. I could relate to their confusion! The X-Files had an entertaining baseball loving alien episode too. What is it about baseball that attracts aliens?!

I like it has a lot to do with the fact that Baseball is a scientific game with all the rules and nuances involved. There is a big technical side to the game that might prove attractive to the alien type. Baseball is one of those games that if you aren't born and raised on it, it's not easy to embrace.

I love the way TPTB portrayed the game in DS9 episode Take me Out to the Holosuite. They captured the beauty of the game while making it fun to watch. Plus the crew sure looked sharp in those uniforms.

Male aliens... there is something about guys liking to play with balls.....

lolol, cute Lady Rac, very cute lolol

[Starbase]

DS9 and Star Trek in general is fantastic subject matter, but it's the people that post on here (the family), that is what makes this thread humm. I have never forgotten that and I never will. No matter if we agree or disagree, everyone always maintains utter respect for each other. It has always been that way and it always will, I just know it. Now that is a testament to the type of people that like the same kind of scifi as we do. Trekkies and Gaters rule!.

Very well said brother Fifth and I couldn't agree more!. We couldn't ask for a better facilitator or fearless leader. A lot of this thread is a direct reflection on what you created and maintained. "Trekkies and Gaters" do rule!, as do you brother Fifth.

[Starbase]

DS9 Season IV Episode Discussion
Episode #80 The Sword of Kahless

I must say the wife and I really enjoyed rewatching The Sword of Kahless last night. It definitely had an Indiana Jones/Lord of the Rings feel to it which I appreciated. I would much rather see Klingon's go on a quest than Humans or Hobbits.

It was interesting to see how a typical Klingon and the A typical Klingon interact. For me the best part the episode is the suspicion and paranoia that grows between Worf and Kor, casting doubt if the sword really is a weapon of good. Overall a very honorable episode.

[Saquist]

WOW, I just saw Jeffery Combs in an episode of Babylon 5 :Eyes.
He was real young....wow. Sambe voice and same creep personality. I have to admit I loved him as psy core. Then again , it seems he's just great no matter what he does.

[Cold Fuzz]

Male aliens... there is something about guys liking to play with balls.....

Ah, but for some guys that I've met, especially in the past 2 years, they act like they've got three strikes and no balls.

I like it has a lot to do with the fact that Baseball is a scientific game with all the rules and nuances involved. There is a big technical side to the game that might prove attractive to the alien type. Baseball is one of those games that if you aren't born and raised on it, it's not easy to embrace.

This is very true. I've heard it said many times that baseball is a thinking person's sport. The character of Dr. Paul Stubbs in TNG's "Evolution" accurately showed how a scientist could be so incredibly immersed in the sport.

I never really understood this for myself until my late teenage years when I started reading in-depth interviews with experienced players and talking to lifelong fans. At the time, I was the only guy in high school with a good GPA (3.6) that liked the game. In college, that changed and I met all manner of very intelligent fans and players alike. Very good company.

The nuances to the game, like pitching in particular, are very scientific indeed. For example, let's say I were to ask some very pointed questions to pitchers Brad Penny, Roy Oswalt, and Ted Lilly. Now those three just happen to be just some of my favorite pitchers who all happen to be very different from each other, which is why I chose them as examples. If you ask them the same questions, they will offer three completely different approaches and philosophies that are all equally valid. This is interesting especially since all three were All-Stars at some point in time. If I were to ask very specific about the mechanics of what exactly they do, they are more than willing to offer insights of how to do it. The physical component is big in the sport but my God the mental component has to be there too or the player will never achieve.

And by the way, all three of the players I just named are all very intelligent men in addition to being good athletes. They won't wax poetic about the mysteries of the universe or metaphysical issues but they could write dissertations about their respective opinions on how team chemistry works, pitching mechanics, strategy, and the business of the sport as well.

How does this translate to DS9? It's analogous to asking three different starship captains about their opinions on command style, crew morale and interaction, the ins and outs of starship operations, and the endless nuances of combat strategy. In that sense, baseball is a very effective metaphor for DS9 and the Dominion War in particular.

WOW, I just saw Jeffery Combs in an episode of Babylon 5 :Eyes.
He was real young....wow. Sambe voice and same creep personality. I have to admit I loved him as psy core. Then again , it seems he's just great no matter what he does.

Psi Corps personnel are just...whacked in so many ways it's kind of comical. Harriman Gray was one of the very few sympathetic Corps telepaths featured on B5 and even he gave of some seriously strange vibes, especially to Ivanova. Methinks there was just a wee bit too much inbreeding and other problems with the telepath gene pool in B5.