Deep Space 9 Superior

[jelgate]

I watched Second sight and Sanctuary tonight

Sisko is my 2nd (Odo wins #1) favorite DS9 character but Second Sight is meh. It was down right bad but it does little to catch my attention and keep me in awe. Its pure filler.

Now Sanctuary is totally different. One aspect that keep DS9 interesting in the first 2 seasons were the Bajorans. After the Emmisary we get to watch this new planet begin to grow politically, economically, and socially. And that is one of the reason I like Sancturary. We see how the new government evolve in response to the Gamma Quadrant refuges. Also I like we get a vague hint to the Dominion. That is a major point of S2. We get all these vague hints about the Dominion until their presence in The Jem'Hadar. On a side note seeing them alien race (whose name escapes me) surfer with universal translator was quite humorous.

[Linda06]

Sisko is my 2nd (Odo wins #1) favorite DS9 character but Second Sight is meh. It was down right bad but it does little to catch my attention and keep me in awe. Its pure filler.

Now Sanctuary is totally different. One aspect that keep DS9 interesting in the first 2 seasons were the Bajorans. After the Emmisary we get to watch this new planet begin to grow politically, economically, and socially. And that is one of the reason I like Sancturary. We see how the new government evolve in response to the Gamma Quadrant refuges. Also I like we get a vague hint to the Dominion. That is a major point of S2. We get all these vague hints about the Dominion until their presence in The Jem'Hadar. On a side note seeing them alien race (whose name escapes me) surfer with universal translator was quite humorous.

Yes I found my sttention wandering with second sight

I loved sanctuary for the reasons you mentioned. So the Bajorans are still finding it a little difficult trusting outsiders? Can't say I blame them, after what the Cardassians done to them it must be hard learning to trust again. Maybe that woman was right, maybe they could have helped each other, but I guess the Bajorans couldn't take that chance so I guess they'll never know, shame really. And is this the second time the dominion has been mentioned in a ep so far? hehe, that was quite funny with the translater thing...And seeing Odo a little flustered is always fun to watch

[Giantevilhead]

Amen sister Linda. There arrogance was by far there biggest weakness. Even the Vorta, who were basically the Founders servants, had that annoying arrogance bred in to them. Now the Jem'Hadar were just plain brazen.

The Founders would have won the war if it wasn't for the biggest deus ex machina moment in Star Trek history when the Prophets made 2,800 Dominion ships disappear. In fact, if the Founders had known that it was just a one time deal, they would have sent more ships and conquered the Alpha Quadrant.

[Descent]

Sisko is my 2nd (Odo wins #1) favorite DS9 character but Second Sight is meh. It was down right bad but it does little to catch my attention and keep me in awe. Its pure filler.

I agree. Did I mention that I really don't like most of those "fall in love" episodes?

Well, I guess Second Sight isn't exactly one of those, but it's also not very good either.

Now Sanctuary is totally different. One aspect that keep DS9 interesting in the first 2 seasons were the Bajorans. After the Emmisary we get to watch this new planet begin to grow politically, economically, and socially. And that is one of the reason I like Sancturary. We see how the new government evolve in response to the Gamma Quadrant refuges. Also I like we get a vague hint to the Dominion. That is a major point of S2. We get all these vague hints about the Dominion until their presence in The Jem'Hadar. On a side note seeing them alien race (whose name escapes me) surfer with universal translator was quite humorous.

You guys actually liked Sanctuary? Hmph.

That whole episode felt very forced to me. The awkward 'problems' with the translator felt way too obvious. I absolutely hated the forced/manipulative ending sequence where the son got himself killed to drive home the point. Why? Sisko had found them a perfectly good alternative planet.

The issues that are brought up are certainly relevant, but the episode itself was pretty bad at handling them. I always skip this one. I'd rather watch Second Sight again.

[Linda06]

I agree. Did I mention that I really don't like most of those "fall in love" episodes?

Well, I guess Second Sight isn't exactly one of those, but it's also not very good either.



You guys actually liked Sanctuary? Hmph.

That whole episode felt very forced to me. The awkward 'problems' with the translator felt way too obvious. I absolutely hated the forced/manipulative ending sequence where the son got himself killed to drive home the point. Why? Sisko had found them a perfectly good alternative planet.

The issues that are brought up are certainly relevant, but the episode itself was pretty bad at handling them. I always skip this one. I'd rather watch Second Sight again.

Yeah Sanbctuary was good Welll you heard what the woman said....The males are way too emotional

[jelgate]

You guys actually liked Sanctuary? Hmph.

That whole episode felt very forced to me. The awkward 'problems' with the translator felt way too obvious. I absolutely hated the forced/manipulative ending sequence where the son got himself killed to drive home the point. Why? Sisko had found them a perfectly good alternative planet.

Its a religion thing. Bajor was likes Isarel to them. We fight and die for our beliefs. Why wouldn't their culture be any different?

Yeah Sanbctuary was good Welll you heard what the woman said....The males are way too emotional

Strange that it usually seems to be the other way around

[Descent]

Its a religion thing. Bajor was likes Isarel to them. We fight and die for our beliefs. Why wouldn't their culture be any different?

Yeah and I think it's incredibly stupid that some people do that. I respect religion and any one who follows it, but blowing yourself up for your beliefs (to 'prove a point') is just ridiculous to me... I would hope that in the 24th century, that kind of irrational behavior would be gone.

I can admire what they tried to do in that episode, but like I said, I just hated the way it was done.

[jelgate]

We are going off on a tangent a little bit but its not just religious beliefs people kill themselves for but alos political and social beliefs as well. I just hate the misconception that the majority of wars come from religion. Anyway minirant over.

Their is a few problems with that scenario. First off the Gamma Quadrant race had been living in oppression for years. And if the Bajorans Occupation taught us anything its faith more then anything that can keep a race alive. Also these high ideals we see the Federation hold itself too are quite hollow. DS9 more then anything taught us that. The space in the fututre is hardly as civilizied as we would like to believe. Its violence pure and simple and past history has showed us that people resort to violence when all other areas had been exhausted. The kid from the Gamma Quadrant race saw violence as the only means for his people's best interest. Was it misguided? Sure. But modern countried do misguided things because they think its for the better of their country

[Descent]

We are going off on a tangent a little bit but its not just religious beliefs people kill themselves for but alos political and social beliefs as well. I just hate the misconception that the majority of wars come from religion. Anyway minirant over.

I wasn't implying that that was the only reason why people kill themselves. Suicide in general is something that I do not agree with, in any way.

Their is a few problems with that scenario. First off the Gamma Quadrant race had been living in oppression for years. And if the Bajorans Occupation taught us anything its faith more then anything that can keep a race alive.

Yes, that is one of the very reasons why I respect religion. It gives people hope.

Also these high ideals we see the Federation hold itself too are quite hollow. DS9 more then anything taught us that. The space in the fututre is hardly as civilizied as we would like to believe. Its violence pure and simple and past history has showed us that people resort to violence when all other areas had been exhausted.

We will always be a flawed race, but I'd like to think we're actually heading somewhere. But then again, we're not talking about the Federation, or humans for that matter.

The kid from the Gamma Quadrant race saw violence as the only means for his people's best interest. Was it misguided? Sure. But modern countried do misguided things because they think its for the better of their country

It was. And I felt that, like the rest of episode, it was very forced. Did it get them a place on Bajor? No. So it makes this "sacrifice" of his even more pointless (to me, at least).

Hated the episode, and it sounds like we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this. I understand what you're saying and it's exactly the reason (well, part of it ) why I disliked it so much.

[USS Defiant]

Treachery, Faith and the Great River gets you back in touch with the "core material" surrounding the DS9 characters - Odo was nothing short of fantastic!. And how about Jeffrey Combs taking Weyoun to a completely new level.

Well said brother Fifth. To me what this episode is really about is the relationship between the Vorta and the Founders. As has been established many times in the past, the Vorta worship the Founders like gods, and this story makes particularly good use of that fact, putting Odo in the middle of a situation where he's worshiped by both the man the enemy wants dead and the man who's calling the enemy's shots. Both are named Weyoun.

What's different about "Treachery" compared to previous episodes that have examined this theme is the way this story brings a more intimate, personal relationship between the worshiper and the worshiped. Weyoun-6 quickly becomes a fascinatingly sympathetic character. And we can see that the fact Odo won't "permit" Weyoun to worship him in the conventional sense (he refuses to be called "Founder" and tells Weyoun that he would treat any prisoner the same as he's treating Weyoun) deeply hurts Weyoun.

There's a great deal of very good dialog between Odo and Weyoun, and through Combs' performance, we can get a sense of how deep these feelings truly run through Weyoun and presumably all Vorta. Auberjonois does a great job of staying in character but reaching out to understand Weyoun's faith in him when he can, particularly at the end.

I loved the idea of Nog temporarily loaning Sisko's desk out to a man who "likes to take pictures of himself sitting behind the desks of famous Starfleet captains." And Bashir's playful sarcasm at O'Brien's desperate idea to replace Sisko's missing desk with a different desk ("It's white, it's the wrong shape, it's the wrong height, it's the wrong width. But other than that, it's perfect. The captain will never suspect you switched desks on him.") was downright funny. Nog's role in all of this melds Starfleet motivation with Ferengi beliefs - a surprisingly palatable notion. (What's also interesting is that the title of this episode can be applied equally and appropriately to either storyline. Weird.)

lolol again I totally agree with you brother Fifth. Definitely one of my favorite B-Stories from the entire series. I loved the scenes where an obviously exasperated O'Brien is continuously questioning Nog about what is going on ..... (speaking of the Great Material Continuum)
Nog: "It's the force that binds the universe together."
O'Brien: "Oh, I must have missed that class at Engineering School"

[Linda06]

Its a religion thing. Bajor was likes Isarel to them. We fight and die for our beliefs. Why wouldn't their culture be any different?

Strange that it usually seems to be the other way around

It's only the other way around once a month

Yeah and I think it's incredibly stupid that some people do that. I respect religion and any one who follows it, but blowing yourself up for your beliefs (to 'prove a point') is just ridiculous to me... I would hope that in the 24th century, that kind of irrational behavior would be gone.

I can admire what they tried to do in that episode, but like I said, I just hated the way it was done.

Well my gran always said, "as long as there's two men on earth they'll fight about something". Personally I think humans will fight about one thing or other till the end of time

[the Fifth Race]

Well my gran always said, "as long as there's two men on earth they'll fight about something". Personally I think humans will fight about one thing or other till the end of time

LOL Good morning Lady Linda. Your gran was a wise man - And if there was only two men and lets say one woman left on Earth - there would be knock down drag out fight.

Sadly, and as you all know full well, the whole history of man and this this world was basically built on violence and war. That is until the Vulcans visit us and lets us know we are not alone out there.

[the Fifth Race]

There's a great deal of very good dialog between Odo and Weyoun, and through Combs' performance, we can get a sense of how deep these feelings truly run through Weyoun and presumably all Vorta. Auberjonois does a great job of staying in character but reaching out to understand Weyoun's faith in him when he can, particularly at the end.

Well said - For a split second Odo would had this look of fascination on his face whenever Weyoun would refer to him as a God - and then he would correct Weyoun with his typical angst by telling him he wasn't a God to him or anyone. To which Weyoun would sheepishly call him by his name (Odo). Both Rene Auberjonis' and Jeffrey Combs performance were exceptional in Treachery, Faith and the Great River.

Definitely one of my favorite B-Stories from the entire series.

I have to agree, and what's kind of strange, one of my other very favorite "B-Stories" from the entire series also invloved Nog and Jake. Can you or anyone guess what episode I am talking about?.

[Karhedron]

I have to agree, and what's kind of strange, one of my other very favorite "B-Stories" from the entire series also invloved Nog and Jake. Can you or anyone guess what episode I am talking about?.

The moment Nog came home from Starfleet Academy and had to share the room with Jake?

Edit : I just loved how the worlds collided there. The dreamer and part-messie Jake and the new strict-by-the-book "Fitness room at 0500" Nog. Their problems and how they had to accept that they had changed and find a way to be friends again (Not to mention the looks on Roms and Siskos faces when they realized how GOOD those two would learn from each other..I still think it was just a cover-up to get their brats out of the house )

[Linda06]

LOL Good morning Lady Linda. Your gran was a wise man - And if there was only two men and lets say one woman left on Earth - there would be knock down drag out fight.

Sadly, and as you all know full well, the whole history of man and this this world was basically built on violence and war. That is until the Vulcans visit us and lets us know we are not alone out there.

Afternoon

Well if my gran was indeed a man Well it depends on who the woman was