Deep Space 9 Superior

[the Fifth Race]

The "superiority" of Trek, any kind of Trek rests on the viewer buying into the nobility and ideals of a futuristic race. If you lose that "buy in" the nobility and the broad acting and the constant "moralizing" can really get to you. I am struck with how pure that nobility seems to be and how it seems a bit cardboard when compared to other, more recent Sci Fi series. The real struggle to make moral decisions in Firefly makes it interesting and refreshing. Yes, they are the good guys, sort of, some of the time..... Stargate is in constant conflict with trying to make moral decisions while dealing with renegade branches of government (NID)... etc.

The Nobility of ST portrayed at the beginning of TNG was rather much, sure we would all love to think humanity is headed in that direction. They did have a great back story in the Trek universe (which all Trek fans know) where WWIII almost led to destruction of man-kind. It does make the idea of a more Utopian society being formed in the later centuries more believable.

One of the places where Trek: TOS was superior is that people were defined by their excesses. Too much logic. Too much risk taking. Too much libido, too much compassion. The resolution of these conflicting impulses made the characters interesting. I personally think that this dynamic was lost after TOS, so that all the characters seems the same: noble, pure, driven to excellence, no consistent struggles or flaws. Yes, there are a lot of one time eps where a major character suddenly develops a flaw, but there seems to be an excess of nobility..... That can inspire or it can make you feel like you can't relate...

I totally agree that TNG failed to take the same risk that TOS took with what you explained "to much logic, to much libido, to much compassion". I think that has as much to do with Picard being compared to Kirk. Kirk was a little rebellious and had a sense of adventure and risk taking that made him unique, where as Picard was the noblest of all Trek characters!, his crew on the Enterprise reflected his nobility and his sense of sticking to the letter of the law so to speak. In hind sight TOS and TNG were both great for different reasons just as how DS9, Voyager and even Enterprise were different from everything before. I think this is one of many reasons why Star Trek is as enduring and as great today as it ever was.

[the Fifth Race]

Which just goes to show that the executives at NBC are sitting on Gold with Ron Moore at their disposal.....I absolutly agree that the new BSG is the greatest Sci-fi show of all time, and I can see how DS9 might be almost as good.

I cannot agree moore! Ron is da man and I hope if ANY Trek TV series is born in the near future he is involved!.

[Trek_Girl42]

I cannot agree moore! Ron is da man and I hope if ANY Trek TV series is born in the near future he is involved!.

Unfortunatly that would now have to be a long way down the road.....BSG is likly to go on for some time, he's now doing BSG video games, he was developing some other shows for NBC, I would love to see him write a Trek movie some time in the not to distant future although it seems unlikly- but potentially he is the best person out there to take over the Trek franchise.

[the Fifth Race]

Unfortunatly that would now have to be a long way down the road.....BSG is likly to go on for some time, he's now doing BSG video games, he was developing some other shows for NBC, I would love to see him write a Trek movie some time in the not to distant future although it seems unlikly- but potentially he is the best person out there to take over the Trek franchise.

I like the new BSG a lot but I have a feeling next season might be the last?, I hope not.

I can see another Trek TV series or a movie for that matter, being made in about 5 years or so from now. Star Trek will never die, there is way to much money to be made with way to many young and old fans out there. With BSG, SG and SGA on air now ST will lay low and when the time is right (like when TNG came out) the mighty Trek franchise will rise again.

[mikepbr549]

I like the new BSG a lot but I have a feeling next season might be the last?, I hope not.

Agreed. Although I have enjoyed BSG thus far, it is really no more than a soap opera that happens to take place in space. IMO, based on the way it has been glued together, it will difficult to sustain, but time will tell. The ending of this season was just downright strange, and I wouldn't be surprised if half of it turned out to be a dream in classic soap opera fashion. It will be interesting to see where they go next.

I can see another Trek TV series or a movie for that matter, being made in about 5 years or so from now. Star Trek will never die, there is way to much money to be made with way to many young and old fans out there. With BSG, SG and SGA on air now ST will lay low and when the time is right (like when TNG came out) the mighty Trek franchise will rise again.

Absolutey quite likely, but probably not for awhile yet. In the meantime, I would love to see another major TNG cinematic production, but alas, I think they are done.

As far a SG and SGA are concerned, I have thoroughly enjoyed all of it thus far, but it seems to me that they have moved away from the mainstream viewers and have adopted a cult type audience (very similar to DS9) - Case and point, my wife (who is not really a sci fi fan), used to watch and enjoy the earlier SG eps, but will have nothing to do with SG or SGA now. She says they are just too far out there. If she is an average viewer, this could paritially explain why ratings have suffered as of late.

[Trek_Girl42]

Agreed. Although I have enjoyed BSG thus far, it is really no more than a soap opera that happens to take place in space. IMO, based on the way it has been glued together, it will difficult to sustain, but time will tell. The ending of this season was just downright strange, and I wouldn't be surprised if half of it turned out to be a dream in classic soap opera fashion. It will be interesting to see where they go next.

DON'T SPOIL!!! Please. I'm a Canadian, so I'm only up to Black Market, which is on tomorrow, yes, we're miles behind- in everything.....are I really don't want it ruined.

[mikepbr549]

DON'T SPOIL!!! Please. I'm a Canadian, so I'm only up to Black Market, which is on tomorrow, yes, we're miles behind- in everything.....are I really don't want it ruined.

No spoil intended Trek Girl, just pure speculation on my part.

Sorry mods, not trying to hijack a thread either.

[Trek_Girl42]

No spoil intended Trek Girl, just pure speculation on my part.

Sorry mods, not trying to hijack a thread either.

No worries.....I'm paranoid to the point of insanity when it comes to BSG spoilers (I caught what I thought was a biggie before the season even started- would have been in the mid-season break for everyone else, but it hasn't come to pass yet, so I'm thinking it may be a false alarm.....but I still have my suspicians that it isn't).

[the Fifth Race]

Agreed. Although I have enjoyed BSG thus far, it is really no more than a soap opera that happens to take place in space. IMO, based on the way it has been glued together, it will difficult to sustain, but time will tell. The ending of this season was just downright strange, and I wouldn't be surprised if half of it turned out to be a dream in classic soap opera fashion. It will be interesting to see where they go next.

There have been times I threw my hands up in the air and said enough of this space soap opera, that and the lack of progression of the storyline. IMHO season II was better than season I, they progressed it more and didn't focus on to many different story-lines in each episode which they so painfully did in season I. With the declining ratings and the way season II ended it does set it up for a series finale in season III.

Absolutely quite likely, but probably not for awhile yet. In the meantime, I would love to see another major TNG cinematic production, but alas, I think they are done.

I remember reading a few months ago that Patrick Stewart and most of TNG regulars were ready to sign on to another Trek movie but Paramount who owns the franchise right now put the kibosh on any new movie for the time being.

As far a SG and SGA are concerned, I have thoroughly enjoyed all of it thus far, but it seems to me that they have moved away from the mainstream viewers and have adopted a cult type audience (very similar to DS9) - Case and point, my wife (who is not really a sci fi fan), used to watch and enjoy the earlier SG eps, but will have nothing to do with SG or SGA now. She says they are just too far out there. If she is an average viewer, this could partially explain why ratings have suffered as of late.

SG definitely peaked a few seasons back (if not further), that being said I still have thoroughly enjoyed every season so far and I am looking forward to season 10 and what will happen with the Ori (I see season 10 being the curtain call for SG). As far as SGA goes I think it has improved over season I (which I liked), The introduction of Dex helped and learning more about the Wraith and eminent danger towards Earth made season II pretty exciting. I hope season III isn't the end of SGA!.

Don't worry about Hijacking my thread Mike, like I said we basically talk about anything scifi with a proclivity and extra passion for DS9 and anything Star Trek.

[Starbase]

There have been times I threw my hands up in the air and said enough of this space soap opera, that and the lack of progression of the storyline. IMHO season II was better than season I, they progressed it more and didn't focus on to many different story-lines in each episode which they so painfully did in season I. With the declining ratings and the way season II ended it does set it up for a series finale in season III.

I hear you on BSG being to much like a soap opera, I also agree that season II was better, at least IMO it was. The first season was way to busy with to much stuff going on every episode, I think TPTB realized this because season II was more focused.

I remember reading a few months ago that Patrick Stewart and most of TNG regulars were ready to sign on to another Trek movie but Paramount who owns the franchise right now put the kibosh on any new movie for the time being.

I remember reading the samething that Stewart was willing and able to make another Trek movie as were most of the original crew but like you said Paramount shut it down for the time being.


Hey brother Fifth when are you going to list the second half of season IV favorite episodes?.

[Morbo]

What's Worf's favorite pie?
that's what I wanna know.

Also, i don't recall a pie ever being plastered in anyone's face on Star Trek. I think that would have gone over well in Quark's.

[the Fifth Race]

What's Worf's favorite pie?
that's what I wanna know.

That would be Rokeg blood pie, it was Worf's favorite Klingon dish so his human Parents learned to make it for him as they raised him. Riker also claimed to like Rokeg blood pie. I wonder if Neelix ever made a pie?, if so it was probably for Tom Paris.

Do you remember Worf's favorite human drink?.

Also, i don't recall a pie ever being plastered in anyone's face on Star Trek. I think that would have gone over well in Quark's.

I will have to think about that one.

Blood pie in the face I imagine is not a pleasant experience.

[Morbo]

i believe it was prune juice, yes? - as first introduced to him by Guinan on Yesterday's Enterprise.

[Missster.Freeman]

i believe it was prune juice, yes? - as first introduced to him by Guinan on Yesterday's Enterprise.

Yes it is. A "warrior's drink." According to Mr Woof Worf!

[mckaychick]

Yes it is. A "warrior's drink." According to Mr Woof Worf!

indeed