Deep Space 9 Superior

[the Fifth Race]

Notice the specific way the Bajorans clap? Lovely touch.

After re-watching Accession (and reading your very well remembered post here), I was reminded of the rather unique back-handed yet subtle hand clap gesture the Bajoran's use. Just another example of the attention to detail that the writers gave the whole Bajoran storyline.

Another thing I noticed while watching and Accession (and all of DS9's season IV) - was just how much the CGI and FX improved from the first 3 seasons. Season IV (circa. 1996-1997), which was a time when CGI was becoming preeminent and much much better!. Those scenes near the end of Accession with Sisko and Akorem flying in the worm-hole to try and meet up with the Prophets were fanatstic!. I really hope that Paramount finally pull's the trigger one day (like they did with TOS) and starts converting all the other Trek televison series to Blu-Ray Hi-Def. I would completely switch over my current and complete Star Trek DVD collection I own now.

[jelgate]

After re-watching Accession (and reading your very well remembered post here), I was reminded of the rather unique back-handed yet subtle hand clap gesture the Bajoran's use. Just another example of the attention to detail that the writers gave the whole Bajoran storyline.

Another thing I noticed while watching and Accession (and all of DS9's season IV) - was just how much the CGI and FX improved from the first 3 seasons. Season IV (circa. 1996-1997), which was a time when CGI was becoming preeminent and much much better!. Those scenes near the end of Accession with Sisko and Akorem flying in the worm-hole to try and meet up with the Prophets were fanatstic!. I really hope that Paramount finally pull's the trigger one day (like they did with TOS) and starts converting all the other Trek televison series to Blu-Ray Hi-Def. I would completely switch over my current and complete Star Trek DVD collection I own now.

Fun little fact. A lot of the CGI used in in the First Battle of DS9 was reused in the Second Battle of DS9

[the Fifth Race]

Fun little fact. A lot of the CGI used in in the First Battle of DS9 was reused in the Second Battle of DS9

Very true - Another fun fact is that both B5 and especially DS9 were basically the first and only television series to successfully ever use a combination of old school large hand made models blended with modern CGI (that was not an easy thing to pull off). By the time VOY had started it's 7 year run they had almost completely converted over to full CGI for there FX.

As I have said before on this thread more than a few times - I remember a Star Trek convention about a year after DS9 had ended it's 7 year run - which they aired (in a large dark room with a 30' screen) raw footage (no sound) of unused CGI video of massive Starship battle scenes like we saw at the end of season 7. I remember the CGI guy who worked on DS9 told the very enthusiastic crowd that they had almost 12 hours of unseen CGI battle scenes that never made it into any DS9 episodes. The presenter told us that all that raw footage was shot during season VII and they had planned to use most of it but the storyline the writers finally went with changed all that. Someone suggested that they put it on a DVD and package for people to buy or another suggestion was to add it as "Special Feature", in at the time, would be a future DS9 DVD Box Set. To bad neither ever happened.

[nx01a]

Speaking of VOY... Compare the wonderful vfx in Caretaker to the horrid vfx in The Cloud. It was painful watching it back in the 90s, but I simply can't rewatch it now. It genuinely hurts me. Physically.
It's ironic that DS9's Emissary had great vfx and so did the next big 'action' episode in s1, Vortex. Sometimes, I miss models.

[jelgate]

Speaking of VOY... Compare the wonderful vfx in Caretaker to the horrid vfx in The Cloud. It was painful watching it back in the 90s, but I simply can't rewatch it now. It genuinely hurts me. Physically.
It's ironic that DS9's Emissary had great vfx and so did the next big 'action' episode in s1, Vortex. Sometimes, I miss models.

To be fair Series premieres are given a lot more money so of course theies visual effects are going to be of higher quality

[the Fifth Race]

To be fair Series premieres are given a lot more money so of course theies visual effects are going to be of higher quality

Good point!. -- Even what would be considered ancient FX by today's standards that TNG used back in the 1980's - The FX for there series premiere episode Encounter at Farpoint was terrific for 1987.

[nx01a]

To be fair Series premieres are given a lot more money so of course theies visual effects are going to be of higher quality

That's my point. The space action in Vortex was just as good as that in Emissary, while The Cloud was abyssmal even by the standards of the time. It was just even more pronounced thanks to what we'd just seen in Caretaker.

[jelgate]

That's my point. The space action in Vortex was just as good as that in Emissary, while The Cloud was abyssmal even by the standards of the time. It was just even more pronounced thanks to what we'd just seen in Caretaker.

Thier isn't really enough quanitfied date to answer that. Like how does DS9 S1 budget compare to VOY S1 budget? Furthermore what is the quanity of those CG1 scenes? Did DS9 have more or did VOY?

[nx01a]

I suppose there's no quantitative way to judge it, but there's certainly a qualitative way to judge it. And it looks horrid.

[jelgate]

I try not let CGI and visual effects dictiate the quality of an episode.


Although its hard in TOS when you have that string holding up the Enterprise

[SaberBlade]

I try not let CGI and visual effects dictiate the quality of an episode.


Although its hard in TOS when you have that string holding up the Enterprise

Good thing they redid the special effects of TOS. The worst thing about the special effects, is that they can sway me. I've never been able to get into some stuff as much as others because of them. TOS is a good example, love Star Trek, but can't get into TOS as much as the others because I hate the crap effects (I've yet to see remastered). Love Star Wars, love it even more because Lucas redid the effects for the original trilogy.

However I think it will still come down to the quality of the episode, acting, script, plot and so on, graphics just make it more visually appealing.

[Pitry]

Now that's very true. If things had played out differently, the Prophets could have just "tweaked" the timeline to suit their designs for Bajor.

Let's not go there, please.

Sorry, I just have a RL problem with the "millions of people had to die in order for the good thing to happen" attitude. I refuse to accept that some people have to be victims, whether in fiction or real life.

[Saquist]

Good thing they redid the special effects of TOS. The worst thing about the special effects, is that they can sway me. I've never been able to get into some stuff as much as others because of them. TOS is a good example, love Star Trek, but can't get into TOS as much as the others because I hate the crap effects (I've yet to see remastered). Love Star Wars, love it even more because Lucas redid the effects for the original trilogy.

However I think it will still come down to the quality of the episode, acting, script, plot and so on, graphics just make it more visually appealing.

Try watching 4 Season of Space 1999.
Once you realize the science and the CGI are just tools of the story sometimes you don't have to pay as much attention to them.
I prefer my SCI FI to be accurate but for some reason back in the 60's for them I let it go....Space was a...an interesting series.
After reading so many books CGI is just a poor substitute for an imagination.

[the Fifth Race]

Since I ran out of room and couldn't fit in the "Guess the Quote" section of my quizzes in the latest one I created. I thought we could have a little pre-quiz fun and I would post some of the ones I had planned on using. Please leave your answers with a Spoiler Tag. I am headed out for the afternoon - I will be back this evening to check out the answers.

(Try and guess who gave the quote and or quotes, and from which televison series -- And if you are really good, tell me what particular episode it came from. Both of them have 2 different characters. Hopefully they aren't that difficult)

"Let me get this straight, you want me to take your head off?"

"Yes Sir"

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"I have a bad habit of telling the truth, even when people don't want to hear it"

"Perhaps, but I want to hear it"

[jelgate]

Since I ran out of room and couldn't fit in the "Guess the Quote" section of my quizzes in the latest one I created. I thought we could have a little pre-quiz fun and I would post some of the ones I had planned on using. Please leave your answers with a Spoiler Tag. I am headed out for the afternoon - I will be back this evening to check out the answers.

(Try and guess who gave the quote and or quotes, and from which televison series -- And if you are really good, tell me what particular episode it came from. Both of them have 2 different characters. Hopefully they aren't that difficult)

"Let me get this straight, you want me to take your head off?"

"Yes Sir"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I have a bad habit of telling the truth, even when people don't want to hear it"

"Perhaps, but I want to hear it"

Spoiler:

The first one is from TNG with Data and Riker and I can't remember the episode name. Its the one where Picard gets stuck in a turbolift and Troi is in charge of the Bridge crew. The whole ship basically shut down.

The second one sounds a Bashir and Garek thing so I say DS9 but I don't have a clue on the episode. Its just an educated guess