Wingman (315)

[Julian]

I am increasingly disappointed in Sanctuary and it's making me sad... more and more, Kindler and company seem to be going for the cheap laugh before they worry about the integrity of the show.

Maybe this is a consequence of the 20-ep season, but there've been a lot of misses in Season 3, and to me, "Wingman" is one of them. Don't get me wrong, I love the quirky and fun as much as the next person! "Nubbins", "Hero", "Sleepers" - those were fun episodes! And I also *love* the tongue-in-cheek moments that the writers maintained through some of the darker episodes. But they were *moments*. When did Sanctuary become one bad gag after another?? Campy is fun, but where's the balance?

I know this probably seems like a harsh invective, and I think I'm probably feeling more frustrated because this ep came so soon after "One Night", but I want the Sanctuary of "FCaK", "Breach", "Pavor", and "Requiem" back!! At its best, this show can be perfectly brilliant - I hope we get to see more of its best soon. I feel like the show needs to go back to the identity it staked out in the webisodes, where it was designed to be a darker show but one that nevertheless had a sense of humour. To me, the best eps have been the ones to return to this tone.

I'd love to hear other thoughts on this! Point, counterpoint... I welcome it all!

Prof_S

No I completely agree... and I know these eps were designed to be cheaper but really cheaper doesn't mean they can't be dark or they can't be half decent. For example, if Will and Abby were written better and there were more dramatic, intense moments in One Night then that would've been a great episode (despite the cliche story).

Wingman was just... too much. I dunno how they could've saved it.

[slurredspeech]

Yeah, it's hard to draw the line between the two lately, isn't it. Will was such a complex character at the start, and instead of delving into the mystery, they've made him rather two-dimensional. Why haven't we learned any more of his back-story? Why haven't we gotten more of a glimpse into his transition from 'zero' to 'hero'? It was awfully quick, frankly... And, for a forensic psychologist/criminal profiler, he hasn't been used for his knowledge in those fields for a good long while now.

*nods* Perhaps I wouldn't go as far as calling him complex, even at the beginning, since complexity requires depth and that is achieved in time, but certainly interesting and 'oh, I'm looking forward to finding out more about him and see him use his unique skills' type of character. However, as you say, they dumped that for some unfathomable reason around the time he lost the glasses. Perhaps that is the reason he can't spot vital details anymore? It's anyone's guess, because that was his cool thing, and they took it away. And with it the whole reasoning why he is there, working at the Sanctuary, in the first place.

Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I guess, as a viewer, I'm not as interested in simple serialized action anymore. It's fun, but there's so little depth to it, and it's very difficult to connect with it in any meaningful way. It just doesn't resonate as much. I think that's what disappointed me about "Metamorphosis" too - for a POV ep, it gave us little insight into the way *Will* was feeling - into his inner workings, so to speak.

There have been more than a few insights into various characters -- the old troupe more and better done than the youngsters, which is why I enjoy them more, though Henry's gotten his share of depth to the character, as has Biggie -- I just meant that you'd never know it from this clip show. It was just a bunch of 5 second clips of kick-ass or one-liners thrown together that showed absolutely nothing about these people. Except that Helen packs a punch and Henry's adorable even if he's crap with guns. Oh, alright then. :|

Yeah, I've gotten that impression as well. I think it makes sense for some aspects of the actor to come out in the character like hearing AT's laugh from Helen in Next Tuesday or Will accents in Haunted or Animus, but maybe they've taken it a bit far in RD/Will's case recently. I also don't think it helps that instead of writing to Will's strengths as a psychiatrist they seem to be playing up the goofier aspects of the character.

Oh, absolutely. Actors, with their unique traits -- laugh, facial expressions, tone of voice and diction, gestures and so on -- portray the characters in their unique ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. As you say, though, they've taken it that step further with Will and it can't possibly work out. Even his accents, which are his strength, yes? Why not *use* them instead of simply showing them off. It would make sense to me if he used those skills in a case, or for the purpose of, say, infiltration or some such useful purpose. This way, however, it just seems like random showcasing, an in-joke brought to screen, and thus feels a tad forced. All of this IMHO, of course.

It may seem like I have no love for Will -- and that may well be true, *presently* -- but it's more that I'm sad to see the potential of early show Will taken and binned. Reduced to being juvenile and, what's worse, useless.Where is his unique perspective that once should have been the perspective of us mortal viewers? Where are his admirable skills? It's simply too bad there's none of that left in what has too long been a bland character with out-of-place playful attitude.

[jckfan55]

Yeah, he's gotten sort of devil may care and jaded toward the Sanctuary work. I know he's been at it a couple of years, but really can he be that much of an expert on all the abnormals already?

And it really annoys me that Abby is yet another person who knows all about the Sanctuary. I wouldn't trust her not to let something slip. I thought this work was supposed to be kind of secret...
It actually would have been more interesting for Will to have met her at a conference or something and not be able to tell her about his work. Actually, I'm thinking Sigrid from Iceland would be more interesting...

I guess it would be ok for Will to loosen up sometimes, but there's a time and a place for it. Not in front of your boss or while trying to catch mothman.

[EH-T]

I think this episode did have some story to it though, we saw the progression of Henry and Erika's relationship as well as a progression of Henry's (and Erika's) journey of accepting/dealing with being a HAP. Granted this was mostly character-based stuff and not a significant overall plot or arc point like Kinsey was to SG-1, but it was story nonetheless IMHO.

I do agree with your point about Will, we didn't see this kind of immaturity from him after he died in Kali 3 so that doesn't seem to be a good reason for him to be acting this way now. I think I'll just chalk it up to Abby being a bad influence. Will at least has the excuse of living at the Sanctuary, she's an almost complete stranger and she's fine walking around half-dressed?



Same here.

I kinda wonder if this episode and maybe One Night were a result of that Father Clark arc from S3.0 getting cut short. I think AM said in an interview that they'd planned it to be a 4 episode arc but the network passed on the last two eps, so they had to wrap it up in Vigilante. Maybe it left them with two slots in S3.5 to fill and the rush to do that resulted in the rather half-baked plots of 'date night gone wrong.'

Interesting thought.




Can i say that i'm really disliking the fact that by the time I see the episode i am way late for the discussion?


You've said it all but I will add my thoughts:


-I didn't mind it was a clip show as much as it was another date show and the continued involvement of Abby.

-if i hear one more reference to Alfredo's I shall scream

-I like Henry and Erica together, she is an intelligent woman and a sweet character, sorry that given the ending we are not likely to see her again (not anytime soon anyway)

-I didn't mind Abby in her first appearance. After ON and this ep, I see no difference between her and Clara. She has not shown the intelligence one would expect from someone with her job, she is the stereotypical damsel-in-distress even to the cliche twisting of the ankle. Losing my respect for Will based on his choice of women. If this is the best we can do with his romantic interests then let's lose and never explore that storyline again

-Will and Abby continue to be written as teenagers not mature adults. In addition to the horrible character moment of showing up half-dressed to raid food (remembering that this is someone else's house and Will's workplace) it ruined a beautiful moment between Henry and Helen

-where is the Will of previous seasons? Definitely seeing regression here.

-too many Will-heavy (but without substance) eps

-too many Helen-light episodes. She is the best thing about this show, let's focus more on that

-why are we seeing Abby instead of Kate? If you are going to introduce Kate instead of Ashley as a regular then let's go with that.

Really looking forward to the return of the show I love this week!

[mjwalshe]

Forgive me for being terribly Canadian about this, but this argument seems true too. On the one hand, on a 'day-to-day' basis, Kate simply doesn't have the same edge to her presence as Ashley did; but on the other hand, as you rightly point out, Ashley's death was a dark (not to mention daring) decision [oh my... apologies for the alliteration. Dang! I did it again ]. And you're right - the references to her death have added intensity to various eps as well. So, in a sense, Ashley's absence both does and doesn't detract from the 'edge' of the show.

Kate fed a guy to an abnormal which is prity dark

[EH-T]

I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

[Professor_S]

I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

Seconded. (Or, at this point, not so much 'seconded' as an addition to the prevailing chorus!)

EH-T I should also second your frustration over having to arrive late to the party as far as eps go. I hate spoilers, so I daren't peak at what's been written in the thread for 316, but part of me is *itching* to! I'm also worried about DLs (a concern that has no doubt been discussed to death here already...) because of the gap between US and Can. air dates. But frankly, I'm just impatient, LOL!

[jckfan55]

I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

I agree. I think she would have been annoyed. And really, wouldn't Will show better judgment? On the other hand, seems like hormones are his weakness. One of the last times he was so obnoxious was in Next Tuesday when he wanted to go to that conference. As Magnus said then, "this is about your libido."

And in terms of the flow of the episode it was so wrong. They're in the middle of this nice moment with Magnus & Henry. Why even bring Will & the dopey girlfriend back into it at that point?

[EH-T]

Seconded. (Or, at this point, not so much 'seconded' as an addition to the prevailing chorus!)

EH-T I should also second your frustration over having to arrive late to the party as far as eps go. I hate spoilers, so I daren't peak at what's been written in the thread for 316, but part of me is *itching* to! I'm also worried about DLs (a concern that has no doubt been discussed to death here already...) because of the gap between US and Can. air dates. But frankly, I'm just impatient, LOL!

Yes, the Space channel has been very supportive of Sanctuary and has put up with Syfy repeatedly changing its mind on the air date (Sanctuary was originally to be on Fridays then when Syfy was going to move it to Tuesdays they were too, then Syfy decided to leave it on Fridays so Space followed suit). I'm sure it is hurting their ratings because people can view it (legally or illegally) by other means. However, they have other shows scheduled and can't continually move it around based on Syfy's decisions. I think that if it remains on Syfy on Mondays and the ratings have suffered here because of the delay that Space will move it as well for season 4.

I agree. I think she would have been annoyed. And really, wouldn't Will show better judgment? On the other hand, seems like hormones are his weakness. One of the last times he was so obnoxious was in Next Tuesday when he wanted to go to that conference. As Magnus said then, "this is about your libido."

And in terms of the flow of the episode it was so wrong. They're in the middle of this nice moment with Magnus & Henry. Why even bring Will & the dopey girlfriend back into it at that point?

Will is supposed to respect Magnus and therefore should have shown better judgment. You are probably right about his hormones but that's one thing I have a problem with, he's 30something not 16.

And yes, bad flow. I love the fact that Sanctuary has a sense of humour but what I love about it is that usually it is a very smart wit. This was appealing to the the kind of humour 14 year old boys would find funny.

[majorsal]

I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

i agree.

i'd have liked her to say something to will, and when he reached for the plate of whatevers he ended up grabbing, how about slapping his hand away. that food was for helen and 'henry'.

helen: will, abby? get some clothes on, and you too can have some of this delicious food. of course by going to get it yourself, dears.

[dosed150]

i dont get why erica couldnt like get a flat in the city or something, she didnt want to live in an institution again, fair enough and wanted to see more of the real world, ok so its hardly london but its a normalish city and she'd be near henry

[Morigane50]

When I watched this episode, I thought : Okay , the writers have lost the script just before starting to shoot. The scenario is such non interesting and I don't like when they fill the blanks with flashbacks of previous episodes, it is for me the solution of simplicity . That's a pity , because it could have been a funny and light episode showing Will and Henry trying hardly to have a sort of "normal social life" by dating their respective girlfriends, which appears to be impossible when you work at the Sanctuary.
but the story was really not interesting to me , and I found that using again this Famous restaurant Alfredo was getting old . I cannot believe that in such a big city where they live, there is only one very famous and so good restaurant !

[Skydiver]

teh transcript is done and uploaded

http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/transcriptslist.html

[Huaracocha]

Regarding Helen being OOC by being 'too nice' about Will & Abby's cheeky food theft.. I think we need to take into account that last Alfonso date night they were kidnapped and she was nearly killed and on this occassion Helen sent them sewer crawling instead. So maybe she felt they deserved a little taste of the good stuff and decided to let the bad manners lecture go until the morning!

[Skydiver]

Helen probably had another serving tucked away on the sideboard so she and Henry had plenty.