Breach (307)

[jckfan55]

I too look forward to seeing more of Adam with Helen. My thoughts on why Helen tried to kill him, is that as the Hyde persona, he was very dangerous, in his penchant for violence and murder. If we actuall saw him 'morph' into the monster that was 'Hyde' it would be easy to say, yea shoot him. As the 'monster' hiding behind the eyes, it's much more scarier, as you don't know who you are looking at.

I do think he is an abnormal, that there are actually two people in there, we have seen the Two-faced guy, with two seperate personalities, here we have the two seperate personalities, but only one face. Very well played by IT!

Yes, I think he's some kind of abnormal or experiment gone wrong. My guess from what Magnus said is that he was running amok and wouldn't let Helen or anyone else help him. This would seem to be after the Jack the Ripper situation in time-- though Adam apparently knew him (maybe he grew up around the Five? he refers to himself as a lad at one point)--so Helen was probably less likely to take chances at that time in her life.

[majorsal]

Yeah, but-- I don't know why but I find the times she looked out the window creepy, they were just so silent and... creepy. It really added to the isolated effect, even when she saw Will and Kate down below.

it was creepy, along with the scene when she first goes up on the roof (not the intro scene, but the real time one)... she goes up, but just stands there and looks around. the way it was filmed made me feel like adam was suddenly going to pop out at any time. i kept waiting to flinch

[majorsal]

In the previous episode, animus, will stated that his mother is from dublin. Adam had either a scottish or irish accent. You guys think it possible that adam and will are related?

i don't think they're related.

so adam had the irish (or scottish) accent, but hyde was english? seems that way.

[majorsal]

That's what makes me wonder if Helen studied kung fu at some point. I believe there is a chain whip weapon used in kung fu.

i hope we get a flashback (season 4 hopefully ) that shows just how and when helen learned these fighting skills.

[majorsal]

I went to my daughters dance concert today and there was a dance performed that reminded me of this episode...it was violent and just plain insane - not something I am used to from a dance concert.
I really do love this episode but I think for me, Requiem still remains my top favourite - Breach was very violent much like Pavor Nocturnus which still makes me cringe at certain scenes...not cringe in a bad tacky way but cringe in a OMG ouch kinda way. Breach was full of ouch...I swear I'm not complaining but I'm just not used to watching a beating go on for soooo long.

i didn't really cringe, b/c helen didn't seem to be *that* fazed by it. i mean, after that first beating, i would have been in for, so i'm thinking adam/hyde was holding back, or helen's adreneline was kicked up, or... helen heals faster than normal?

or i'm reading too much into this!

(part of the fun of whump is to see the 'ow' afterwards )


btw, i loved adam's 'ouch' after the first time helen hit him with the chain! even my mom LOLed on that

[llp]

Good point about Bertha. I wasn't suggesting Adam was an abnormal. Not sure at this point. Just that we haven't seen Helen shoot anyone or anything in cold blood (that I can remember). I think shooting Adam when he was unarmed is pretty extreme so can't wait to find out what he did. Maybe you are right about the "mercy" part. )

If he wasn't an abnormal, then how come he's still alive!

[majorsal]

Loved all the teaser information about the City. I have some inside info from the tour that I can't share so I won't talk about future developments.

a wee request of you? if you can't share the info you know, could you please not tell us you know something, *unless* you can share it?

glad you enjoyed the ep.

[EvenstarSRV]

Good point about Bertha. I wasn't suggesting Adam was an abnormal. Not sure at this point. Just that we haven't seen Helen shoot anyone or anything in cold blood (that I can remember). I think shooting Adam when he was unarmed is pretty extreme so can't wait to find out what he did. Maybe you are right about the "mercy" part.

That standoff with Adam reminded me quite a bit of the standoff between Helen and Druitt in the 1888 flashback. I don't think she shot either in cold blood, but it seemed like that was the only way she saw of stopping both of them before they killed more innocent people.

Regarding if Adam is an abnormal or not, maybe

Spoiler:

since he seems to know most of the Five, maybe he was a colleague of theirs at Oxford who hung around the edges of their inner circle. Perhaps he saw them using the Source blood but they wouldn't let him in on it, so he tried it himself behind their backs, thereby unleashing the Hyde persona?

As for how he survived, there's a spoiler in B roll or VFX clips for S3 where you see Druitt rescuing him in the river and then two robed people pulling him out of the water. Maybe that's why he said that place, the cliff area, was important, it's one of the entrances to Hollow Earth.

[jckfan55]

i didn't really cringe, b/c helen didn't seem to be *that* phased by it. i mean, after that first beating, i would have been in for, so i'm thinking adam/hyde was holding back, or helen's adreneline was kicked up, or... helen heals faster than normal?

I think Hyde basically said he wanted to drag it out, whereas Adam wanted to be merciful and finish her off quickly. But I do think Helen is stronger than the average person & was also going on adreneline. STill, she seemed on the verge of collapse at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if Will & Kate had to help her to the van.

[jckfan55]

If he wasn't an abnormal, then how come he's still alive!

time folding?

[majorsal]

I think Hyde basically said he wanted to drag it out, whereas Adam wanted to be merciful and finish her off quickly. But I do think Helen is stronger than the average person & was also going on adreneline. STill, she seemed on the verge of collapse at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if Will & Kate had to help her to the van.

thank you for reminding me, jckfan!

so that gives me the impression he 'was' holding back a bit, but i agree about her looking near collapse at the end.

i love this ep!

[Skydiver]

time folding?

that's what I think

he did the opposite of what he did in the warehouse, put himself in a bubble where time moves faster than the rest of the world (or would that be slower?) so that he doesn't age but the rest of the world goes on normally

it's also possible that, in his time in that city, it exists out of time

i think it may also tie back to pavor...did that glowy smoky critter that showed helen the future REALLY show her the future and it happened in that little time bubble.

i don't think it's a coincidence that the smoky effect of the pavor abnormal was echoed in the other two avatars with Kali, and i think Will has been in this city. He 'fell', i think he fell into the super caldera and was there

[hedwig]

thank you for reminding me, jckfan!

so that gives me the impression he 'was' holding back a bit, but i agree about her looking near collapse at the end.

i love this ep!

I'd like to see Helen's workout room in the Sanctuary. She must spend a lot of time there to be in such good shape.

[jckfan55]

i think it may also tie back to pavor...did that glowy smoky critter that showed helen the future REALLY show her the future and it happened in that little time bubble.

Maybe--and now it won't happen. I wondered that at the time. I like that it was left mysterious.

[hisg1fans]

.....
Loved the "you still hit like a girl" line. .....

And I loved Helen's return comment...."You want some more of them?" LOL

I liked the show quite a bit. I was thinking "time dilation field" very early on, even before Helen saw the leaf out the window. And of course, the "fall" over the side of the building looked like going through a wormhole sideways. So between the Stargate flashbacks, the Pavor Nocturnus flashbacks, and being in awe of the fight scenes, I was glued to the TV the entire time. And for the second and third viewings as well.

Couldn't quite place the time for Adam's gas mask, but I'm thinking WWI era. Anybody know for sure? That fits with the "100 years" reference, close enough anyway. I'm wondering if Adam didn't come along 50 or so years after the Five and learned of them through Helen's father or Helen's work with him. I guess I don't think he necessarily has to be a contemporary.

I assumed the liquid in the can and flask was something more viscous than water to absorb whatever energy you might be exposed to in the time portals. Don't know though. Loved how Helen started planning her escape and his capture early on. And wondered if Adam was actually even in our universe (more like a hologram) when he couldn't see through the water. Hmmm.

I've mentioned several times I would like to see an episode where Helen learns to fight. She's shown several styles from differing time periods, so it wasn't just one set of training. Loved her accumulation and assembly of the various weapons she used, clever girl!

Am wondering about the "pale visitors" from the earlier episode. Which one as it?

Again, I'm wondering about the title "Breach". Was it a reference to breaching time? To the other side getting to this one? To Adam getting into the Sanctuary like Helen's father breached and relayed information to the Cabal? To a breach in Helen's armor of invincibility for screwing up Adam? Could be several or many things, just like Animus.

Did I mention I liked the fight scenes?

I've heard Damian or Martin (or both) say this is the episode they've wanted to make since Sanctuary started. Why? To make AT do lots of stunts and show a kick-a$$ Helen? To do a time dilation show? To explore the "inner earth" theory?

Had more thoughts, but they are gone now. It is a sign of getting old I hear

(Edit) And the leather jacket in the flashback was absolutley AWESOME!!!!!!!