Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[Nynaeve506]

Haunted:

Spoiler:

<snip>
But just because she was no longer angry with him doesn't mean she was going to fall into his arms and start spouting romantic drivel. First, she's really not the sort of person I can imagine ever spouting romantic drivel and second, the situation they were in was so intense and they had so little time to process what was going on there at the end that they both had to maintain rigid emotional control to do what had to be done. They couldn't afford to let their emotions out or they would simply get in the way.

Or, in other words, don't mistake Helen's emotional barriers and supports for lack of feeling... She's not a person who shows emotions easily, especially under crisis.

Haunted

Spoiler:

I completely agree. She's incredibly reserved when it comes to how she feels. Also, there's the gravity of the information she's taking in. While intellectually Helen had come to an incredible understanding, the flood of emotions she must be experiencing will take time to digest. You don't suddenly let go of years of self-doubt and insecurity in a couple hours. There's no doubt something very surreal about the experience - having spent 130 years believing something not only about another person but about yourself and then it's turned on it's head. I have to imagine too a desire to be cautious, to keep her heart from being broken yet again. I think there is simply no greater gift John could have given her than his affirmation of love and the willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of everyone and everything (after all it's not only those within the Sanctuary that are saved, but Helen's life work as well)

[AresLover452]

Haunted

Spoiler:

I completely agree. She's incredibly reserved when it comes to how she feels. Also, there's the gravity of the information she's taking in. While intellectually Helen had come to an incredible understanding, the flood of emotions she must be experiencing will take time to digest. You don't suddenly let go of years of self-doubt and insecurity in a couple hours. There's no doubt something very surreal about the experience - having spent 130 years believing something not only about another person but about yourself and then it's turned on it's head. I have to imagine too a desire to be cautious, to keep her heart from being broken yet again. I think there is simply no greater gift John could have given her than his affirmation of love and the willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of everyone and everything (after all it's not only those within the Sanctuary that are saved, but Helen's life work as well)

Spoiler:

But now she has to get her butt in gear.... after saving the planet from Kali (Big Bertha).... and find a way to save John so she can have a chance with him again. In the begging of Kali Pt.1 Will asks if she is ok and i wonder if she was thinking about what John had done and what he had said to her. No way could she push that to the back burner of her mind, except for the planet being in danger. Having John just out right say that he loves her, in front of everyone, has got to still be messing with her head.

I just hope tht when they Bring john back, they make it good and have a way for Helen to take the "evil" out of him. I would like to see him having to deal with the sense of being a free man, a calm man once again.

[helenmagnus23]

Spoiler:

But now she has to get her butt in gear.... after saving the planet from Kali (Big Bertha).... and find a way to save John so she can have a chance with him again. In the begging of Kali Pt.1 Will asks if she is ok and i wonder if she was thinking about what John had done and what he had said to her. No way could she push that to the back burner of her mind, except for the planet being in danger. Having John just out right say that he loves her, in front of everyone, has got to still be messing with her head.

I just hope tht when they Bring john back, they make it good and have a way for Helen to take the "evil" out of him. I would like to see him having to deal with the sense of being a free man, a calm man once again.

S3

Spoiler:

That would be good if Helen could do that for him then he could pickup where he left off in 1880's they could get married but i have a feeling the entity inside John wont give in so esaly Helen may only beable to supres it with a device we havent seen yet .

[AresLover452]

S3

Spoiler:

That would be good if Helen could do that for him then he could pickup where he left off in 1880's they could get married but i have a feeling the entity inside John wont give in so esaly Helen may only beable to supres it with a device we havent seen yet .

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5672452/...ling_the_Demon

This story I wrote based on that very idea... lol!! I got it right after watching HAUNTED... lol!!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5683140/1/Understanding

and this one is just soemthing in between when we see them at the end of S1 and between seeing them in Egypt.

[helenmagnus23]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5672452/...ling_the_Demon

This story I wrote based on that very idea... lol!! I got it right after watching HAUNTED... lol!!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5683140/1/Understanding

and this one is just soemthing in between when we see them at the end of S1 and between seeing them in Egypt.

Thank you Ares they are so cool

I've put a similer thing in my future story it kind of touches on Haunted and what could happen next season

[AresLover452]

hehe, I'm glad that you liked. I have a million and nine ideas for stories floating around in my brain pan and they all star John and Helen.

[helenmagnus23]

hehe, I'm glad that you liked. I have a million and nine ideas for stories floating around in my brain pan and they all star John and Helen.

Me to

This probably sounds a little crazy but i can be sitting watching a documentary or watching Stargate,Sanctuary&Xena and all theas idea's come all at once some stick other's dont but the ones that do i write down

[JenniferJF]

Haunted/Kali:

Spoiler:

But now she has to get her butt in gear.... after saving the planet from Kali (Big Bertha).... and find a way to save John so she can have a chance with him again. In the begging of Kali Pt.1 Will asks if she is ok and i wonder if she was thinking about what John had done and what he had said to her. No way could she push that to the back burner of her mind, except for the planet being in danger. Having John just out right say that he loves her, in front of everyone, has got to still be messing with her head.

Spoiler:

I think she was thinking about the situation with Wexford. Remember, the way the story was meant to be told, Haunted came before Sleepers so Helen has actually gone through all the events of Sleepers between then and when John left. And - frankly - given she has no idea where John went and no way of easily finding him, and isn't even certain he's still alive, I suspect that situation really has been placed on the back burner both personally and professionally. I'd think she's keeping her eyes and ears open (her professional information network) open for signs showing whether he's still alive and if so, where he might be, and might even have Henry working the problem from a technological point of view in his free time, but she seems to have too much generally on her front burner for the 'maybe someday' of finding John again to be able to have too much priority.

One thing I do wonder about in regards to Kali, and maybe we'll get more info on this in S3, is why there seems to be this growing lack of faith in Helen and her actions, which clearly started before they found out about Big Bertha's survival. Because I wonder if the events involving Ashley and the Cabal (and possibly Haunted as well) have the rest of the network concerned Helen's professional judgement has become personally compromised and that she can no longer be fully trusted as one of them... Though I got the impression they were concerned she was taking on to much (or had always maintained) too much personal power and authority. I suppose the two can be related as they were okay with Helen having so much power when they felt she could be trusted, but seeing the results of her (now questionable) personal decisions, such as the one to even have Ashley and trust her with power, they are now concerned about how much power she really has.

Which of course, ties into her relationship with John (and I'd suspect the others in the network are in the loop enough to know that) as her feelings for him are the only real explanation for why she had Ashley in the first place (instead of, say, Einstein's daughter which would have been a more rational decision)

[Nynaeve506]

Haunted/Kali:

Spoiler:

I think she was thinking about the situation with Wexford. Remember, the way the story was meant to be told, Haunted came before Sleepers so Helen has actually gone through all the events of Sleepers between then and when John left. And - frankly - given she has no idea where John went and no way of easily finding him, and isn't even certain he's still alive, I suspect that situation really has been placed on the back burner both personally and professionally. I'd think she's keeping her eyes and ears open (her professional information network) open for signs showing whether he's still alive and if so, where he might be, and might even have Henry working the problem from a technological point of view in his free time, but she seems to have too much generally on her front burner for the 'maybe someday' of finding John again to be able to have too much priority.

One thing I do wonder about in regards to Kali, and maybe we'll get more info on this in S3, is why there seems to be this growing lack of faith in Helen and her actions, which clearly started before they found out about Big Bertha's survival. Because I wonder if the events involving Ashley and the Cabal (and possibly Haunted as well) have the rest of the network concerned Helen's professional judgement has become personally compromised and that she can no longer be fully trusted as one of them... Though I got the impression they were concerned she was taking on to much (or had always maintained) too much personal power and authority. I suppose the two can be related as they were okay with Helen having so much power when they felt she could be trusted, but seeing the results of her (now questionable) personal decisions, such as the one to even have Ashley and trust her with power, they are now concerned about how much power she really has.

Which of course, ties into her relationship with John (and I'd suspect the others in the network are in the loop enough to know that) as her feelings for him are the only real explanation for why she had Ashley in the first place (instead of, say, Einstein's daughter which would have been a more rational decision)

Haunted/Kali

Spoiler:

Just echoing agreement on the Haunted/Sleepers thing. Helen has had a lot of years of practice compartmentalizing. She has people who need her and a job that requires her entire attention - unless she has a solid lead she has to stay focused. It's the difference between being ruled by your emotion or ruled by reason. It doesn't mean she isn't experiencing the emotion, only that she understands that just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you react a certain way. While we can't choose how we feel, we can choose how we interact with those emotions and I think Helen has a very strong grasp of that fact. Will gets this about her which is why, I believe, he indulged her search for Ashley for so long. He knows that she generally doesn't indulge her emotional reactions and she needed to then in order to grieve. That being said, her behavior which was so different from her very reserved nature over the course several episodes probably led to others questioning her judgment...

Which goes to show how very few people comprehend her as a person (and why so few people know her very well) - that's why I want so much to see more of John because he knew her *before* she learned to separate herself. He knew her as a passionate lover and so sees through her reserved mask. I think of Will as the friend who understands her *now* - who she is and what she needs as a person while John understands her as a *woman* (am I making sense) - this is one of the reasons I don't understand people shipping Helen/Will. I don't know if I'm making any sense

Overall Helen's enigmatic personality is what is causing so much professional uproar. In the end, no one knows her really. They have only her word on a lot and while we scream "TRUST HER TRUST HER" - we've also seen her, as viewers, as a full character, we see what happened with John. Imagine you're on the outside and you're hearing whispers and rumors. You know your work is important and she won't let anyone in enough to see that she's not losing her mind (yes her stunt to pretend was brilliant... but now we find out Big Bertha's alive... and suddenly, if you're on the outside looking in, doesn't it seem a bit suspicious?). If John were around and healed I wonder if Helen would start to be less closed off...

[JenniferJF]

Which goes to show how very few people comprehend her as a person (and why so few people know her very well) - that's why I want so much to see more of John because he knew her *before* she learned to separate herself. He knew her as a passionate lover and so sees through her reserved mask. I think of Will as the friend who understands her *now* - who she is and what she needs as a person while John understands her as a *woman* (am I making sense) - this is one of the reasons I don't understand people shipping Helen/Will. I don't know if I'm making any sense

Because Will only knows one small aspect of who Helen is... that part she's chosen to show him? She quite carefully keeps him at arms reach and has difficulty even showing him what she wants to?

And yes, John can look at Helen and know what she's thinking.

Though I think Helen's reserve may actually be part of her personality (or taught her through early cultural training). If you think about the Kush scene, John did nearly all the talking (and professing) and Helen just reacted to what he was doing and saying. Granted, her *facial* expressions speak volumes, but I think they still do even now for those she lets see them (or in rare unguarded moments). I'd go so far as to suggest from the flashback in Kush that Helen was vaguely uncomfortable with the entire situation (especially initially) indicating that, even then, openly confronting emotions did not come easy for her.

So I'm not sure if it's that John can see through her reserved mask now because he knew her then as much as John knows *her* (and the culture from which they both come) and so is able to read her emotions because of that.

[Nynaeve506]

Because Will only knows one small aspect of who Helen is... that part she's chosen to show him? She quite carefully keeps him at arms reach and has difficulty even showing him what she wants to?

And yes, John can look at Helen and know what she's thinking.

Though I think Helen's reserve may actually be part of her personality (or taught her through early cultural training). If you think about the Kush scene, John did nearly all the talking (and professing) and Helen just reacted to what he was doing and saying. Granted, her *facial* expressions speak volumes, but I think they still do even now for those she lets see them (or in rare unguarded moments). I'd go so far as to suggest from the flashback in Kush that Helen was vaguely uncomfortable with the entire situation (especially initially) indicating that, even then, openly confronting emotions did not come easy for her.

So I'm not sure if it's that John can see through her reserved mask now because he knew her then as much as John knows *her* (and the culture from which they both come) and so is able to read her emotions because of that.

Hmmm, I'm not saying what I mean I'm differentiating in my head the idea of "knowing" someone and "getting" someone. I'm not saying Will gets her completely or understands her completely or anything like that, just that he does better than other people (I think we see his lack in "Next Tuesday"). Nor does John see completely beyond her reserved mask, but he sees more of her passionate/lover side than anyone else - she's had lovers, she acknowledges that, but the level of pain with which she looks at John is so very raw. I just don't think Helen is as obscure as she likes to think she is. She definitely has a lot of walls and she is definitely a mystery, but the tiny crack she allows say Will or John reveals a lot more to them than she realizes. Does that make more sense?

[JenniferJF]

Hmmm, I'm not saying what I mean I'm differentiating in my head the idea of "knowing" someone and "getting" someone. I'm not saying Will gets her completely or understands her completely or anything like that, just that he does better than other people (I think we see his lack in "Next Tuesday"). Nor does John see completely beyond her reserved mask, but he sees more of her passionate/lover side than anyone else - she's had lovers, she acknowledges that, but the level of pain with which she looks at John is so very raw. I just don't think Helen is as obscure as she likes to think she is. She definitely has a lot of walls and she is definitely a mystery, but the tiny crack she allows say Will or John reveals a lot more to them than she realizes. Does that make more sense?

Yes. A friend and I were just fangurling AT's acting in the way Helen looks at Olaf in Next Tuesday. A more brilliant mix of happy and grieving I've never seen. It's all on her face if you know how to read it.

BTW, I was actually agreeing with most of what you said, just clarifying it for myself. And, yes, exactly on John. Plus, going back to Kush again, she describes her heart as having been *destroyed* by John.. not simply broken, which implies it can be fixed, but destroyed which, I think, means even though she's had other 'lovers', no one's had her love the way John did. They can't have... it was destroyed when she thought John had betrayed her in giving into his insanity and compulsion for murder back in the 1880s.

[AresLover452]

Me to

This probably sounds a little crazy but i can be sitting watching a documentary or watching Stargate,Sanctuary&Xena and all theas idea's come all at once some stick other's dont but the ones that do i write down

I love getting my ideas, they are one of the few things that get me through the day.

[helenmagnus23]

Haunted/Kali:

Spoiler:

I think she was thinking about the situation with Wexford. Remember, the way the story was meant to be told, Haunted came before Sleepers so Helen has actually gone through all the events of Sleepers between then and when John left. And - frankly - given she has no idea where John went and no way of easily finding him, and isn't even certain he's still alive, I suspect that situation really has been placed on the back burner both personally and professionally. I'd think she's keeping her eyes and ears open (her professional information network) open for signs showing whether he's still alive and if so, where he might be, and might even have Henry working the problem from a technological point of view in his free time, but she seems to have too much generally on her front burner for the 'maybe someday' of finding John again to be able to have too much priority.

One thing I do wonder about in regards to Kali, and maybe we'll get more info on this in S3, is why there seems to be this growing lack of faith in Helen and her actions, which clearly started before they found out about Big Bertha's survival. Because I wonder if the events involving Ashley and the Cabal (and possibly Haunted as well) have the rest of the network concerned Helen's professional judgement has become personally compromised and that she can no longer be fully trusted as one of them... Though I got the impression they were concerned she was taking on to much (or had always maintained) too much personal power and authority. I suppose the two can be related as they were okay with Helen having so much power when they felt she could be trusted, but seeing the results of her (now questionable) personal decisions, such as the one to even have Ashley and trust her with power, they are now concerned about how much power she really has.

Which of course, ties into her relationship with John (and I'd suspect the others in the network are in the loop enough to know that) as her feelings for him are the only real explanation for why she had Ashley in the first place (instead of, say, Einstein's daughter which would have been a more rational decision)

Kali and S3

Spoiler:

I think given what Helen has gone through loosing Ash the Cabal attack's getting John back only to loose him to the darkside again possibly etc i think Wexford and other house leaders should go easy on Helen her work is all she has and if they take that from her thats priity brutal Helen's lived longer than any of the house leaders and for them to turn against her at a critical moment well here comes the apocolipse .

And for John i hope Helen finds away to free him from his deamon or at least keep it in check becase it would be good if we could see them have longer moment togther and flashbacks of before and after the blood that be cool and a kiss .

Watching EON when Will say's Helen should spend less time with JTR i was so saying she should spend more time with him .

[helenmagnus23]

I love getting my ideas, they are one of the few things that get me through the day.

Same here Ares
I love it when you go to bed with a story in mind and you dream about it and in the morring you so have to write it down i do that alot