Sanctuary Discussion (Spoilers for the most recent episode)

[silly sally]

I have to admit that my first reaction was...

Spoiler:

Oh please let it be Helen that he would save...but then I have to agree with Evenstar and say that even if Druitt would initially chose Helen. Helen would pretty much force Druitt to save Ashley...I think most mothers would...besides the fact that Helen would not hesitate to sacrifice herself to save Ashley...but Druitt would be torn...I just believe that deep down he would save Helen first but I dunno

...that's a really hard choice to make.

He would save Helen; after all the show can survive losing Emilie, but it would be dead without Amanda

[JenniferJF]

Spoiler:

I would think Ashley. I think Druitt feels responsible what happened to Ashley and her encounter of the Cabal. I think Helen also would want Druit to save Ashley over her. Helen seems like the person who would sacrifice her life for her love ones like Ashley

Spoiler:

I would agree it's Ashley. Or it should be if for no other reason that, as many of you have said, Helen would never forgive him (again) if he chose her instead of Ashley. And I think, honestly, this is true for humanity in general and most men wouldn't never save the mother-of-their-children before or without the children even if that's what they really wanted to do... It wouldn't take a dying wish or anything specific about Helen to do this, I think it's almost an instinctive survival-of-the-species sort of response by now.

Well said. Ashley must be now questioning what else Helen has kept from her over the years, and why her mother doesn't seem to trust her with that information. And I think that, combined with Druitt almost demanding that she start thinking for herself, will underlie future tensions between Ashley and Helen, since I don't think she'll be content to just 'do what mummy tells her to' anymore.

I actually think this is probably a good thing, especially as it relates to Druitt. Even based solely on what we see in the pilot I see Ash, in talents and probably even temperment, taking after him more than Ashley. Which means, I'd think, for her to reach her maximum potential and use and control herself to the best of her ability she's likely to ultimately need his guidance (assuming he remains stable) as much as Helen's. Plus, really, questioning one's parents and the belief's of one's youth is a natural and, I think, essential part of the maturation process and so it's surely a good thing for Ashley simply from that perspective alone and I can't help but wonder if, coming from the outside as it were but being in a position to care Druitt doesn't see this and that his words were, more or less, pointint out to Ashley that it's 'time to grow up'.

[samcarterrules]

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

Great question...

Spoiler:

My initial thought was John want to save Helen but I do think Helen, as a mother, would force/demand/plead with him to save Ash, she would rationalise it by saying she (Helen) has already lived two lifetimes, Ash has yet to live one. John b/c he loves Helen so much, he would with a heavy heart grant her last wish.

Julia(samcarterrules)

[NZNeep]

Jenn, I wish you would explain that parental protection thing to my parents.

OT

Spoiler:

A few years ago the local fire station put on a display to show what would happen if they set fire to a car (no petrol tank so it wasn't uber dangerous). I think we were supposed to learn something, but I just remember that it was cool. We were all down in the carpark at the train station watching, when there was a really loud bang because the hydraulic cylinder in one of the doors had been left in and exploded. My mother instinctively pushed me in front of her as a human shield and my father practically had tears in his eyes he was laughing so hard.

Once mum calmed down and realised what had happened (and that there was no real danger) she was horrified. Too late for your maternal instincts to kick in 2 minutes later, mum.

[JenniferJF]

Jenn, I wish you would explain that parental protection thing to my parents.

OT

Spoiler:

A few years ago the local fire station put on a display to show what would happen if they set fire to a car (no petrol tank so it wasn't uber dangerous). I think we were supposed to learn something, but I just remember that it was cool. We were all down in the carpark at the train station watching, when there was a really loud bang because the hydraulic cylinder in one of the doors had been left in and exploded. My mother instinctively pushed me in front of her as a human shield and my father practically had tears in his eyes he was laughing so hard.

Once mum calmed down and realised what had happened (and that there was no real danger) she was horrified. Too late for your maternal instincts to kick in 2 minutes later, mum.

*hugs* OT, instinct:

Spoiler:

While my hubs and I were dating, I was at his apartment and he was cooking us something for dinner and (hehehe) hadn't realized you can't actually heat Pyrex (heavy glassware) on the stove top. We were standing talking about 3 feet from the stove when there was an explosion from the vicinity of said stove. I heard the sound, and the next thing I knew, before I could even think to react, I was standing 5 feet further from the kitchen pushed behind him... Gotta love those combat instincts

Back On Topic, my husband finally started watching Sanctuary this week after a Serendipitous Incident involving my baking of blueberry muffins at 4am. As we then watched the pilot, he (a former Special Ops Weapons NCO and Ranger School hand-to-hand combat instructor) pointed out that the moves Ashley and Druitt are using in the pilot are real moves and, in fact, those Druitt is using are ones specifically designed to control without actually harming the final one, in fact, being my hubs own favorite move for that purpose. Then later he commented that the tactics and weapons they were using were also exactly right and that 'they must have a really good military advisor'. Thought I'd share

[AstraPerAspera]

RE: Requiem

Spoiler:

it's like helen had brain damage, and that part that normally censors what she says was shut off. or helen on super, duper, mega PMS.

Actually,

Spoiler:

I tend to think of the episode as "Helen on Crack", because that's how her erratic behavior seemed to me. And just like any druggie needing a fix, it led to behavior that was was cruel and manipulative and brilliantly deceitful. She'd do anything, say anything to get that next high...or, ironically, this this case, technically, the next low, as it was going deeper which gave her the "sunshine".

[EH-T]

Spoiler:

it's like helen had brain damage, and that part that normally censors what she says was shut off. or helen on super, duper, mega PMS.

LOL!

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

Great question...

Spoiler:

My initial thought was John want to save Helen but I do think Helen, as a mother, would force/demand/plead with him to save Ash, she would rationalise it by saying she (Helen) has already lived two lifetimes, Ash has yet to live one. John b/c he loves Helen so much, he would with a heavy heart grant her last wish.

Julia(samcarterrules)

Good question Inward Wind. I agree with Julia.

*hugs* OT, instinct:

Spoiler:

While my hubs and I were dating, I was at his apartment and he was cooking us something for dinner and (hehehe) hadn't realized you can't actually heat Pyrex (heavy glassware) on the stove top. We were standing talking about 3 feet from the stove when there was an explosion from the vicinity of said stove. I heard the sound, and the next thing I knew, before I could even think to react, I was standing 5 feet further from the kitchen pushed behind him... Gotta love those combat instincts

Back On Topic, my husband finally started watching Sanctuary this week after a Serendipitous Incident involving my baking of blueberry muffins at 4am. As we then watched the pilot, he (a former Special Ops Weapons NCO and Ranger School hand-to-hand combat instructor) pointed out that the moves Ashley and Druitt are using in the pilot are real moves and, in fact, those Druitt is using are ones specifically designed to control without actually harming the final one, in fact, being my hubs own favorite move for that purpose. Then later he commented that the tactics and weapons they were using were also exactly right and that 'they must have a really good military advisor'. Thought I'd share

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[JanSam]

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

I would also think

Spoiler:

Druit would choose to save Helen and Helen would plead with him to save Ash. What he would actually do would depend on if Druit thought Ashley capable of saving herself as she does now possesses the same "gift" as Druit.

RE: Requiem



Actually,

Spoiler:

I tend to think of the episode as "Helen on Crack", because that's how her erratic behavior seemed to me. And just like any druggie needing a fix, it led to behavior that was was cruel and manipulative and brilliantly deceitful. She'd do anything, say anything to get that next high...or, ironically, this this case, technically, the next low, as it was going deeper which gave her the "sunshine".

This is how I viewed Helen's actions.

Spoiler:

Her statement about the sunshine plus her actions just reminded me of a drug addict's behavior.

[jckfan55]

re: who would save whom, I rewatched The Five (gotta stave off those Sanctuary ssshakes you know.) At the end when

Spoiler:

Druitt teleports them to the surface, I noticed again that Helen not only breaks away from John, she shoves Ashley behind her. Mama Bear. Of course Ashley doesn't stay there.

[Inward Wind]

JanSam wrote:

Spoiler:

Druit would choose to save Helen and Helen would plead with him to save Ash. What he would actually do would depend on if Druit thought Ashley capable of saving herself as she does now possesses the same "gift" as Druit

I agree.

Spoiler:

But, if Helen wasn't given the opportunity to tell him to save Ashley, if he had to make a decision quickly, I think he would choose Helen. He would think Ashley might be able to save herself, or knowing she was now like he used to be, would think by not choosing Ashley, he would be saving her from the pain that he went through.

Arrgggh---how does one multiquote??? My forum ignorance is becomming a pain in the arse for me!


In regards to the weapons comment earlier:

Spoiler:

Just from my untrained eye, I thought the fight scene in the pilot was done very well. So, was the one from Fata Morgan.

I guess I'm in the pondering mood these last couple of days but another thought I had was:

Spoiler:

Do you think that Helen would take out Ashley if Ashley was going to kill someone else, like Will, Henry or BigFoot? The reason I ask was because, maybe it's just me, but I thought it strange that Helen wouldn't shoot Druit immediately when he showed up in her house in the pilot -before he grabbed Ashley or even afterwards when Ashley was yelling for her to do it. She evidently also waited to shoot him until after he killed the prostitute in the flashback - even though she knew who he was by that time.

[jelgate]

Spoiler:

Do you think that Helen would take out Ashley if Ashley was going to kill someone else, like Will, Henry or BigFoot? The reason I ask was because, maybe it's just me, but I thought it strange that Helen wouldn't shoot Druit immediately when he showed up in her house in the pilot -before he grabbed Ashley or even afterwards when Ashley was yelling for her to do it. She evidently also waited to shoot him until after he killed the prostitute in the flashback - even though she knew who he was by that time.

Spoiler:

That would be an interesting dilema. How do you choose between your friends and your offspring? Especially if you perscribe to theory that when Ashley betrayed everyone in Revelations she wasn't in normal mental condition. I really don't know the answer to your question. At one end you have Ashley killing people but its hard for a parent to forget about their offspring and do what would be considered the right thing

As for multiquoting, you see that little button between quote and QR? When you want to quote someone's post click it and it will turn red. After you done quoting everyone click the post reply button. When the text screen appear you should have multple quote

[EvenstarSRV]

I actually think this is probably a good thing, especially as it relates to Druitt. Even based solely on what we see in the pilot I see Ash, in talents and probably even temperment, taking after him more than Ashley. Which means, I'd think, for her to reach her maximum potential and use and control herself to the best of her ability she's likely to ultimately need his guidance (assuming he remains stable) as much as Helen's. Plus, really, questioning one's parents and the belief's of one's youth is a natural and, I think, essential part of the maturation process and so it's surely a good thing for Ashley simply from that perspective alone and I can't help but wonder if, coming from the outside as it were but being in a position to care Druitt doesn't see this and that his words were, more or less, pointint out to Ashley that it's 'time to grow up'.

I think, in a sense, it had to be Druitt and not Helen to tell Ashley that it was 'time to grow up.' Not just because her personality does seem closer to his, but because I think Helen is very torn about how much freedom she really wants Ashley to have, and has probably with good intentions kept her from growing up in some ways.

I think part of her knows she has to trust Ashley to take care of herself and become more independent, but on the other hand I think the one thing that would really 'break' Helen is if Ashley died. She was her salvation from a century of loneliness, and even though she has Bigfoot, Henry, and Will now, I don't think losing any of them would hurt her as deeply as losing Ashley would.

So that protective instinct has probably caused her to shelter Ashley more than was good for her, kept her happy enough in her role at the Sanctuary so she wouldn't think about questioning her mom too much and become too independent from her.

Back On Topic, my husband finally started watching Sanctuary this week after a Serendipitous Incident involving my baking of blueberry muffins at 4am. As we then watched the pilot, he (a former Special Ops Weapons NCO and Ranger School hand-to-hand combat instructor) pointed out that the moves Ashley and Druitt are using in the pilot are real moves and, in fact, those Druitt is using are ones specifically designed to control without actually harming the final one, in fact, being my hubs own favorite move for that purpose. Then later he commented that the tactics and weapons they were using were also exactly right and that 'they must have a really good military advisor'. Thought I'd share

Thanks for sharing! I really enjoyed that fight in the pilot myself, and it's nice to know from an expert that was pretty realistically done.

I guess I'm in the pondering mood these last couple of days but another thought I had was:

Spoiler:

Do you think that Helen would take out Ashley if Ashley was going to kill someone else, like Will, Henry or BigFoot? The reason I ask was because, maybe it's just me, but I thought it strange that Helen wouldn't shoot Druit immediately when he showed up in her house in the pilot -before he grabbed Ashley or even afterwards when Ashley was yelling for her to do it. She evidently also waited to shoot him until after he killed the prostitute in the flashback - even though she knew who he was by that time.

Spoiler:

I would love to see a scene between Helen and Ashley kinda like the Requiem scene between Will and Helen, where Will was forced to kill Helen before she killed him and then herself. I think Helen hesitated both times to shoot Druitt because despite what he's done, she still loves him, and who wouldn't hesitate to kill someone they love.

I'm inclined to think that if it comes to it, Helen would kill Ashley. I think she would hesitate and agonize over the decision and draw it out to the last possible moment, but I think she would do it, and then fall apart afterwards.

[SunKrux]

Spoiler:

I would love to see a scene between Helen and Ashley kinda like the Requiem scene between Will and Helen, where Will was forced to kill Helen before she killed him and then herself. I think Helen hesitated both times to shoot Druitt because despite what he's done, she still loves him, and who wouldn't hesitate to kill someone they love.

I'm inclined to think that if it comes to it, Helen would kill Ashley. I think she would hesitate and agonize over the decision and draw it out to the last possible moment, but I think she would do it, and then fall apart afterwards.

Imho,

Spoiler:

If Helen wouldn't/couldn't kill Druitt and he's done some horrible things, there is no way she'd be able to kill Ashley. I think she'd put her in a cold sleep or something, but there is no way she could kill her child. Nope, not gonna happen.

[RealmOfX]

Sanctuary is now airing in Singapore, did we hear about this before?? I can't remember.

There is an article over at channelnewsasia.com about Sanctuary with a couple of quotes from Amanda and Martin. Follow the link for the article

[majorsal]

RE: Requiem

Actually,

Spoiler:

I tend to think of the episode as "Helen on Crack", because that's how her erratic behavior seemed to me. And just like any druggie needing a fix, it led to behavior that was was cruel and manipulative and brilliantly deceitful. She'd do anything, say anything to get that next high...or, ironically, this this case, technically, the next low, as it was going deeper which gave her the "sunshine".

Spoiler:

hey, very good!

next on Sanctuary: Helen on crack!!!