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Revolution (NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion SPOILERS S2

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    #61
    Originally posted by escyos View Post
    There is one thing that is overlooked though - its a tv show where such a thing happens, therefore in the show's reality, it can happen.
    That just sound like an excuse for lazy, unoriginal writing.

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      #62
      Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
      That just sound like an excuse for lazy, unoriginal writing.
      For the sake of writing you sometimes need to just get things out of the way. As TV fans we always want our shows to expand on details but writers do not think that way. Writers have time and budget to worth beneath so they can't go all out or the show will fail and they will be fired.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by escyos View Post
        For the sake of writing you sometimes need to just get things out of the way.
        It's not the sake of writing, it's the producers worrying whether or not the audience will understand the intended vision. (because subtly doesn't play out well in today's environment.)

        Originally posted by escyos View Post
        As TV fans we always want our shows to expand on details but writers do not think that way.
        Writers think about expanding details, but not visual details. Character details, plot details, mythology details, those details that make for compelling entertainment and are one of the things that makes writing so interesting to do.

        Originally posted by escyos View Post
        Writers have time and budget to worth beneath
        Writers have time but they don't have budget, what they have to worry about is getting compensation for the scripts that they've written; not if they can add certain details. Those things belong solely to the production team.

        Originally posted by escyos View Post
        so they can't go all out or the show will fail and they will be fired.
        They can go all out, it's just that the production team would level what's considered going out due to factors such as budget, the capability of the visual effects, how much effort it would take for them to do a specific shot; the writers only limit is their imagination, producers are reality.

        However, as much as writers are captivated by what's in they're mind, they're also motivated by lazyness to just create a script with characters that sprout out generic dialog and don't have much of a personality as they seem to have. They can create a script which gives shoddy explanations to what happened after the blackout and create a contrived storyline that involves over-the-top fights and secret groups and they can still get paid, and that's the problem. The writers aren't as invested in the show and that's translating to the shoddiness of the show despite the huge production values thanks to J.J. Abrams.
        Back from the grave.

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
          It's not the sake of writing, it's the producers worrying whether or not the audience will understand the intended vision. (because subtly doesn't play out well in today's environment.)


          Writers think about expanding details, but not visual details. Character details, plot details, mythology details, those details that make for compelling entertainment and are one of the things that makes writing so interesting to do.


          Writers have time but they don't have budget, what they have to worry about is getting compensation for the scripts that they've written; not if they can add certain details. Those things belong solely to the production team.


          They can go all out, it's just that the production team would level what's considered going out due to factors such as budget, the capability of the visual effects, how much effort it would take for them to do a specific shot; the writers only limit is their imagination, producers are reality.

          However, as much as writers are captivated by what's in they're mind, they're also motivated by lazyness to just create a script with characters that sprout out generic dialog and don't have much of a personality as they seem to have. They can create a script which gives shoddy explanations to what happened after the blackout and create a contrived storyline that involves over-the-top fights and secret groups and they can still get paid, and that's the problem. The writers aren't as invested in the show and that's translating to the shoddiness of the show despite the huge production values thanks to J.J. Abrams.
          If you go into details in every episode then you run out of material in short time - divide 20 by 1 and you get 20, divide 20 by 7 and you barely get 3.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
            It's not the sake of writing, it's the producers worrying whether or not the audience will understand the intended vision. (because subtly doesn't play out well in today's environment.)


            Writers think about expanding details, but not visual details. Character details, plot details, mythology details, those details that make for compelling entertainment and are one of the things that makes writing so interesting to do.


            Writers have time but they don't have budget, what they have to worry about is getting compensation for the scripts that they've written; not if they can add certain details. Those things belong solely to the production team.


            They can go all out, it's just that the production team would level what's considered going out due to factors such as budget, the capability of the visual effects, how much effort it would take for them to do a specific shot; the writers only limit is their imagination, producers are reality.

            However, as much as writers are captivated by what's in they're mind, they're also motivated by lazyness to just create a script with characters that sprout out generic dialog and don't have much of a personality as they seem to have. They can create a script which gives shoddy explanations to what happened after the blackout and create a contrived storyline that involves over-the-top fights and secret groups and they can still get paid, and that's the problem. The writers aren't as invested in the show and that's translating to the shoddiness of the show despite the huge production values thanks to J.J. Abrams.
            I agree with your comment, but also disagree with subtly not being understood by today audiences, but it is extemely difficult to subtle well as it require good writing, good acting, good production crew to do it well. When it is done well, it is lap up by the audience, Homeland, The Killing are two good example of subtly being done well.

            The thing is you do not have to go far to find good writing, good dialog and even original stories and even a bit of subtly, the cable channels seem to handle those things well, which is why they are winning all of the plaudits and getting all the critics attention. Plus a lot of those shows, the writers are often heavily involve with the production side of things (as use to be the case with the Walking Dead) and do not have to go to the network execs as often as they seem they have do when working on network television.

            I also think Scandinavian tv does subtly extremely well, with very limited budget and they are bringing the audience numbers to.


            Originally posted by escyos View Post
            For the sake of writing you sometimes need to just get things out of the way. As TV fans we always want our shows to expand on details but writers do not think that way. Writers have time and budget to worth beneath so they can't go all out or the show will fail and they will be fired.
            An yet if they write generic storyline that most us have seen many time before, with over the top action scenes, generic characters, the show will fell anyway and they will be unemployed.

            I understand the need for working within a budget, but this show has the budget to bring planes out of the sky(in a way that is only possible unless it was hit with a missile or another huge explosions, and not a power failure or even an electrical overload), run down CGI cities with vegetation, huge over the top fight scenes, it clear that this programme has plenty of money to work with.

            Relying less on action scenes and more on dialogue and scenes showing a slow decay of society led mainly by failure of leaders reacting to the incident in the correct way rather than people just going crazy without electricity would be a lot cheaper to do than what we have seen them produce in the trailer.
            Last edited by knowles2; May 27, 2012, 05:06 AM.

            Comment


              #66
              Wasnt going to come back in here, circles and walls give me a headache.

              Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
              The thing is you do not have to go far to find good writing, good dialog and even original stories and even a bit of subtly, the cable channels seem to handle those things well, which is why they are winning all of the plaudits and getting all the critics attention. Plus a lot of those shows, the writers are often heavily involve with the production side of things (as use to be the case with the Walking Dead) and do not have to go to the network execs as often as they seem they have do when working on network television.
              Group of people surviving after zombie apocalypse is not an original story. And its funny how you accept the complete destruction of society/civilisation in the few weeks the MC was in hospital, but not the fifteen years in revolution...

              Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
              I also think Scandinavian tv does subtly extremely well, with very limited budget and they are bringing the audience numbers to.
              Detective stories/thrillers. Original...


              Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
              An yet if they write generic storyline that most us have seen many time before, with over the top action scenes, generic characters, the show will fell anyway and they will be unemployed.
              You've seen the whole show then? Not just a 4 minute trailer?

              Huge over the top fight scenes? We saw one fight seen, that looked to last only a minute...Which is actually more realistic than the long drawn out fight scenes you tend to get in films and TV.

              Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
              I understand the need for working within a budget, but this show has the budget to bring planes out of the sky(in a way that is only possible unless it was hit with a missile or another huge explosions, and not a power failure or even an electrical overload), run down CGI cities with vegetation, huge over the top fight scenes, it clear that this programme has plenty of money to work with.

              Oh, and
              Here.
              Here.



              Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
              Relying less on action scenes and more on dialogue and scenes showing a slow decay of society led mainly by failure of leaders reacting to the incident in the correct way rather than people just going crazy without electricity would be a lot cheaper to do than what we have seen them produce in the trailer.
              About 90% of the trailer was dialogue, we saw hardly any action. And please show me where in the trailer people were "going crazy without electricity".
              Please, before makeing unfounded claims, jumping to conclusions and just being plain wrong; how about actually watching the show first? Makes sense, no?
              Last edited by Ukko; May 27, 2012, 11:42 AM.
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              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
                but also disagree with subtly not being understood by today audiences, but it is extemely difficult to subtle well as it require good writing, good acting, good production crew to do it well. When it is done well, it is lap up by the audience, Homeland, The Killing are two good example of subtly being done well.
                I have to agree but the network execs and producers of certain shows don't seem to understand this; they worry constantly about whether or not people will get it, whether or not if they make it subtle then people won't understand (even if it's a little bit of subtly.) to the point where it affects the show. Personally if I were the execs and producers of certain shows then I'd take risks when it comes to subtly; after all, doesn't network TV need something really risque nowadays?

                Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
                The thing is you do not have to go far to find good writing, good dialog and even original stories and even a bit of subtly, the cable channels seem to handle those things well, which is why they are winning all of the plaudits and getting all the critics attention. Plus a lot of those shows, the writers are often heavily involve with the production side of things (as use to be the case with the Walking Dead) and do not have to go to the network execs as often as they seem they have do when working on network television.
                I have to agree, certain cable shows are good. There are faults within cable (most TBS and Syfy shows) but cable is becoming the place to find quality series; funny thing is, even though there are quality series on cable, it doesn't seem to be worth it to pay for cable... Since more people are turning to network TV, the quality of new series is going to be more subjective in my opinion; Lost managed to be revolutionary on network TV, why can't "Revolution" be a revolution?

                Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                Group of people surviving after zombie apocalypse is not an original story. And its funny how you accept the complete destruction of society/civilisation in the few weeks the MC was in hospital, but not the fifteen years in revolution...
                It's not an original concept but the stories that manage to come out of it is original; the best writers can take an unoriginal concept and make it fresh and new again with involving characters and dialog, something which Revolution can't seem to do despite it's somewhat original idea.

                Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                Huge over the top fight scenes? We saw one fight seen, that looked to last only a minute...Which is actually more realistic than the long drawn out fight scenes you tend to get in films and TV.
                That guy looked like he was doing acrobatics reminiscent of the Star Wars prequels; realistic is when something is done in a way that doesn't break the barrier of impossibility, what he did was something I'd need dance training and wires to pull off.

                Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                Oh, and
                Here.
                Here.
                Those articles are good and all but can they actually describe how an airplane spins around without actually panning down. (notice how the airplanes remained straight during the time they spinned) I couldn't figure out any way to make a spin like that happen since the airplanes yaw and all that, there'd have to be breaking of major rules in order for that plane to spin like that.

                Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                About 90% of the trailer was dialogue, we saw hardly any action.
                Put it down!
                Take it, and don't show it to anyone.
                He told me to go to Chicago, to find my father.

                That type of dialog is sure to make me interested in the series, and the action; there were tons of scenes that were dank and just designed for action, especially when it's in a building with mainly white and brownish contours.
                Back from the grave.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                  It's not an original concept but the stories that manage to come out of it is original; the best writers can take an unoriginal concept and make it fresh and new again with involving characters and dialog, something which Revolution can't seem to do despite it's somewhat original idea.
                  Another one who has seen the show already. The rest of us must exist in the past.


                  Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                  That guy looked like he was doing acrobatics reminiscent of the Star Wars prequels; realistic is when something is done in a way that doesn't break the barrier of impossibility, what he did was something I'd need dance training and wires to pull off.
                  Reminded me of Syrio talking on multiple armed and armoured men with a wooden sword in GoT. No complaints about that?
                  And i was talking the length of the fight, not the choreography.


                  Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                  Those articles are good and all but can they actually describe how an airplane spins around without actually panning down. (notice how the airplanes remained straight during the time they spinned) I couldn't figure out any way to make a spin like that happen since the airplanes yaw and all that, there'd have to be breaking of major rules in order for that plane to spin like that.
                  The planes nose is pointed down. And those articles were more to refute knowles nonsense claim.



                  Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                  Put it down!
                  Take it, and don't show it to anyone.
                  He told me to go to Chicago, to find my father.

                  That type of dialog is sure to make me interested in the series, and the action; there were tons of scenes that were dank and just designed for action, especially when it's in a building with mainly white and brownish contours.
                  Yep, there were only three lines of dialogue in the trailer.
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                  Comment


                    #69
                    Reposting the trailer since the original doesnt seem to be working anymore (for me anyway).

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                      Another one who has seen the show already. The rest of us must exist in the past.
                      The trailer tells me mostly everything about the show, contrived concept, world, characters, over-the-top theatrics; I'll be surprised if I actually like it when it actually airs because what I've seen screams overrated before the show even aired.

                      Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                      And i was talking the length of the fight, not the choreography.
                      Still, it's extravagant and unnecessarily flashy.

                      Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                      The planes nose is pointed down. And those articles were more to refute knowles nonsense claim.
                      Really now... There was a split second where the plane was straight in the trailer.

                      Picture indicating angle of descent, red line indicating angle of decent itself.


                      If it were to be spinning it's nose would have to be a considerable distance down, something which the Revolution people overlooked.

                      Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                      Yep, there were only three lines of dialogue in the trailer.
                      Those lines of dialog and the way they're delivered are representative of the quality of the series, overdramatic, cliched and somewhat dull.

                      And this is from the guy who brought us Lost, Star Trek, Fringe and Super 8 no less.
                      Back from the grave.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Reposting the trailer since the original doesnt seem to be working anymore (for me anyway).

                        This one didn't work either. I had to watch it on YouTube.
                        sigpic

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                          The trailer tells me mostly everything about the show, contrived concept, world, characters, over-the-top theatrics; I'll be surprised if I actually like it when it actually airs because what I've seen screams overrated before the show even aired.
                          So, is it a contrived concept or somewhat original?
                          You know bugger all about the characters or the world.

                          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                          Still, it's extravagant and unnecessarily flashy.
                          All TV fights are. Real fights end up on the ground in a ball of fists or are over in seconds. I notice you ignore GoT doing it...

                          And it wasnt very flashy.

                          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                          Really now... There was a split second where the plane was straight in the trailer.

                          Picture indicating angle of descent, red line indicating angle of decent itself.


                          If it were to be spinning it's nose would have to be a considerable distance down, something which the Revolution people overlooked.
                          Of course it was flat before angled down.

                          Read the articles, the nose doesnt have to be a "considerable distance down".


                          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                          Those lines of dialog and the way they're delivered are representative of the quality of the series, overdramatic, cliched and somewhat dull.

                          And this is from the guy who brought us Lost, Star Trek, Fringe and Super 8 no less.
                          The only line in there that could be considered cliche is "cant trust anyone". Overdramatic? Sometimes i think people throw out these words and phrases in an attempt to to give their opinions a weight they would otherwise lack. The irony being though, that the whole post is practically one big cliche; i would even say that the word cliche has itself become cliche.

                          Originally posted by LtColCarter View Post
                          This one didn't work either. I had to watch it on YouTube.
                          Ah well, at least you get to watch it. The other one doesnt work either way.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                            So, is it a contrived concept or somewhat original?
                            Both; somewhat original because it involves the zapping of electricity and contrived because it relies on the whole overgrowth thing, cities being abandoned, governments falling, milita's, secret conspiracies and the whole journey with other people thing.

                            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                            You know bugger all about the characters or the world.
                            I know that the characters have to be interesting and the world at least has to be unique.

                            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                            All TV fights are. Real fights end up on the ground in a ball of fists or are over in seconds. I notice you ignore GoT doing it...

                            And it wasnt very flashy.
                            I couldn't do stuff like that unless I had a cape, a really fancy sword and the appropriate lighting, of course it was flashy.

                            Noted that all TV fights are like that but this just seems constructed to be as extravagant as possible. And I haven't watched GoT yet; when I do, I'll be sure to include what I see in my posts.

                            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                            Of course it was flat before angled down.

                            Read the articles, the nose doesnt have to be a "considerable distance down".
                            Yes but how can the plane (especially a jetliner) spin and dive at the same time when there's nothing to make it spin and there's nothing to make it fall like a brick so suddenly. I'm not doubting a spin like that could happen, I'm just doubting the spin shown in the show (especially when it's a jetliner.)

                            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                            The only line in there that could be considered cliche is "cant trust anyone". Overdramatic? Sometimes i think people throw out these words and phrases in an attempt to to give their opinions a weight they would otherwise lack.
                            Watch the trailer and just look at the way they act, just look at the way they do stuff; they don't seem like real characters, they seem more like people sprouting out lines while giving a subtle hint of emotion that wouldn't matter in a character and the way they do stuff, it just seems like they're trying to be as cool as possible without the show even calling for it. Stuff like pulling a character's hand, saying "milita huh" and then pulling it back is an example of this.

                            Again, this is from J.J. Abrams.
                            Back from the grave.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              [QUOTE=Zombies Rise from the Sea;13358550]Both; somewhat original because it involves the zapping of electricity and contrived because it relies on the whole overgrowth thing, cities being abandoned, governments falling, milita's, secret conspiracies and the whole journey with other people thing.


                              I know that the characters have to be interesting and the world at least has to be unique.


                              I couldn't do stuff like that unless I had a cape, a really fancy sword and the appropriate lighting, of course it was flashy.

                              Noted that all TV fights are like that but this just seems constructed to be as extravagant as possible. And I haven't watched GoT yet; when I do, I'll be sure to include what I see in my posts.

                              Yes but how can the plane (especially a jetliner) spin and dive at the same time when there's nothing to make it spin and there's nothing to make it fall like a brick so suddenly. I'm not doubting a spin like that could happen, I'm just doubting the spin shown in the show (especially when it's a jetliner.)
                              That what I meant when I type my comment, I should have explained my thought process more clearly, modern jet liners are design to stay in the air as long as possible without power to the engines,, Planes in the scenarios presented in the show would come down fairly gradually, a shallow angle, especially calm weather as was shown in the trailer , the bushes are stilled so no wind to turnover the plane, no fires from the engine suggest that there was no explosion from the aircraft to cause it to spin.

                              The control systems of today liners are also design to revert back to horizontal flight position if power is lost, to buy the pilot time to restore power.

                              They are also design to handle power surges and direct lightening strikes to engines.

                              As far as I am concern and the manoeuvres the plane did in the trailer is impossible, as there was no engine power and unless it was a very old plane, no or very limited flight control, all modern airliners are fly by wire. for all we know there is a bigger story about the plane in the series and this crash will be fully explained in a future episode (I doubt this, all JJ Abrams programmes have plane crashed in them, it is signature, or as been since Lost, I cant remember a major plane crash in Alias )

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Your still banging on about the planes? We get it, you like TV to be completely scientifically sound. However TV is not and rarely ever is.

                                Heres an explanation: It takes place in an alternate reality where planes operate differently. There problem solved.

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