Avengers: Endgame Post Viewing MAJOR SPOILERS Thread

[Gatefan1976]

It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.

Given the amount of sequals, remakes and generic junk out there, I am not sure I trust "the professionals" as much as I trust the creativity of the fanbase.

[DigiFluid]

Across the entire industry, sure, of course.

In this franchise? Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series. I think Kevin Feige and crew have earned a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt.

[Gatefan1976]

Across the entire industry, sure, of course.

That was my point dude.

In this franchise? Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series. I think Kevin Feige and crew have earned a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt.

Agreed.
The MCU is great, it's todays Shakespere because it deals with the same basic concepts of humanity, same way the ancient greek writers dealt with humanity, or Joseph Cambell with the Hero's Journey.
It's not the story of Cap, or Iron man, or Thor, it's the story of US.
Are we our base form, or are we better?

[Kilgharrah]

... Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series...

Hey you forgot about Age of Ultron. I hate Age of Ultron.

[DigiFluid]

I didn't. I don't think it's very good, and it has a ton of problems, but it's also not actively bad IMO.

[P-90_177]

Nahhh all it would take would be a little tweaking.

Suppose....Doom's [technobabble machine] is based on research Nazi Hydra had done on a pair of infants (Xavier/Erik) with a peculiar genetic abnormality--a gene that's present in all humans, but only active in one out of every 20 million people or something like that. So mutants have been out there this entire time, but there are just so vanishingly few of them (+ most under Xavier's protection) that they've gone unnoticed by the world until now. Then Doom's [technobabble machine] goes off and causes the X-gene to be activated in 10x as many (or whatever multiplier) as before, so the secret is out and suddenly there are mutants everywhere and tons of possibilities for films about them, and about humanity's hateful/fearful reaction to them.

It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.


One particularly glaring catch though, that I think they're probably going to have to deal with: WW2 has gotten too far away from us to use as an origin story. Just by the realities of the passage of time, it really is no longer possible to have Xavier and Erik as children during the war. Even a child born in 1945 (which was my supposition above) would be 73 years old in 2018 (the year of the Snap), so by the time an X-movie comes out five years down the line, the character and actor would already be rapidly closing in on 80, with only one movie completed. They'll have to find some way of shifting the origin forward, in the way that Frank Castle's origin story has shifted forward from Vietnam originally, to Afghanistan for modern readers and audiences.

Yeah I reckon that sounds like the Inhumans arc in SHIELD too. I don’t really see an issue with simply saying that mutants have always existed in the MCU. They just are few in number and keep a low profile. The only reason why Xavier has managed to build up a number of them is because of Cerebro enhancing is abilities and start the film with the X-men already fully realised and developed. Much like Spider-man we already know the backstory so it’s better to just dive right in with Mutants now becoming noticed thanks to the Sokovia accords and the pressure being on for them to be registered and the mutants being like “but wait, we aren’t heroes. We’re just born like this.” And so on. Could even include a nice little nod to the Fox XMen where Xavier And the X-men choose not to register and the government being like “well what are you going to do if we come down there and make you” And Xavier basically repeating the “I have a great swell of pity...” line.

I didn't. I don't think it's very good, and it has a ton of problems, but it's also not actively bad IMO.

Same. It does have its issues but I still rather like it. And I think it does some stuff really well like the scene’s at the party with Thor’s hammer and the whole segment where they hide out at Hawkeye’s house. The Hulk Buster is awesome. And honestly I think James Spader was still an amazing Ultron. I think it falls down in the sense that they needed Age of Ultron to get to Civil War and since Thanos was going to be the big bad the culminate everything they needed to slot in Ultron somewhere as such an iconic Avengers villain.
The film as a whole suffers a lot from middle child syndrome. It’s not as good as Avengers or Infinity War So it just feels forgettable... I mean it is it’s a fairly forgettable movie compared with the others. Especially since around the same phase we also got Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier And Guardians of The a Galaxy. I think thst’s also why Thor 2 falls so flat too. They’re not bad. Simply outclassed.

[Kilgharrah]

Exactly! It's only good as a set-up. Other than that, it's just your average movie.

[DigiFluid]

I also think it's a weird quirk that Ant-Man has been the dividing line Avengers movies in recent years....

Like, we got Age of Ultron, then next chronologically was Ant-Man, then next was Civil War (an Avengers movie in all but name). And here in Phase 3, we had Infinity War, next was Ant-Man and the Wasp, followed chronologically by Endgame.

[Kilgharrah]

Actually Ant Man and the Wasp was set chronologically before Infinity war.

[DigiFluid]

I'd suggest that it's concurrent, but point well made.

[P-90_177]

I'd suggest that it's concurrent, but point well made.

The end credits sequence is concurrent certainly cos that happens at the same time as the snap, but we have no idea how long after the movie that credit sequence comes.

[DigiFluid]

The end credits sequence is concurrent certainly cos that happens at the same time as the snap, but we have no idea how long after the movie that credit sequence comes.

I don't think there's actually anything in Ant-Man and the Wasp that precludes it happening at the same time as Infinity War. Everyone in the movie is so focused on the the quantum realm, and then the chaos in downtown San Francisco, that it's entirely conceivable that the donut attack on New York went completely unnoticed.

When I was doing my pre-Endgame rewatch, I actually moved Ant-Man and the Wasp (sans credit scene) to before Ragnarok. So I did Ant-Man/Wasp, Ragnarok (leads directly into Infinity War), Infinity War, Ant-Man/Wasp credits scene, then went to see Endgame.

I don't really think there's conclusive evidence in either direction, but I find that that watch order flowed pretty well.

[P-90_177]

I don't think there's actually anything in Ant-Man and the Wasp that precludes it happening at the same time as Infinity War. Everyone in the movie is so focused on the the quantum realm, and then the chaos in downtown San Francisco, that it's entirely conceivable that the donut attack on New York went completely unnoticed.

When I was doing my pre-Endgame rewatch, I actually moved Ant-Man and the Wasp (sans credit scene) to before Ragnarok. So I did Ant-Man/Wasp, Ragnarok (leads directly into Infinity War), Infinity War, Ant-Man/Wasp credits scene, then went to see Endgame.

I don't really think there's conclusive evidence in either direction, but I find that that watch order flowed pretty well.

Except it can’t be. The past credits sequence when the snap happens shows that the van has been outfitted with a brand new quantum tunnel, Janet is wearing new clothes and is all cleaned up and they’re starting a brand new experiment. That all implies time has elapsed from the movie proper. I mean if i’m Being generous i’d Say at least a week since Hank and the others would need to get the idea to use the van, then construct the quantum tunnel and then plan the experiment. I mean i’d Say that implies closer to a month or two really. Infinity War meanwhile takes place over the course of a couple of days.

[DigiFluid]

I did say that's how I chose to watch it, and that it flowed well

[P-90_177]

I did say that's how I chose to watch it, and that it flowed well

I hope one day that they bring out the box sets with the option of watching the post credits scenes at the point when they are supposed to be in the series. As Kevin Smith has said on his YouTube show, it is basically the world’s most expensive television show.