The End, Part 2 (618)

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I too think most people "got it". I "got it". I just didn't like it.

I spent 6 years, wrapped up in "the island" and what it represented? I wanted to know why these particular people seemed intertwined from the beginning, why were their paths crossing even before they ended up on 815. What was so important about the numbers? Why did the island need to be protected? Why were Jacob and his brother not supposed to leave?

What I got was a closure of the sideways universe? Something that only appeared at the beginning of S6. Yes it was nice to see everyone reunite? I could even have lived with the "everyone meets at the end in their own sort of "limbo" and then moves on" if I had gotten answers to questions that were raised from the very beginning.

I still think Lost was a great show. I loved everything about it until the last 15 minutes when imo they did "drop the ball" and make me think that despite what we've been told all this time, they really were just making it up as they went along.

They were connected because Jacob chose them and "pushed" them toward the island to be candidates. They spent a lot of the island timeline in season 6 covering that.

[flobo]

Why did he wait until season 6 to reveal himself and for the 5 first seasons, simply had the others kill/abduct random people, but NOT his candidates.

[KatG]

They were connected because Jacob chose them and "pushed" them toward the island to be candidates. They spent a lot of the island timeline in season 6 covering that.

Okay. I'll give you that, but why was the island special? Why did it need protecting? There wasn't always a smoke monster, so what made it special before? Why could the light destroy everything?

[MattSilver 3k]

I can honestly say there's probably nothing wrong with how they resolved the island storyline. So basically: Jacob and Smokey come to be, Jacob decides to bring men to the island because he believes in their good, and eventually makes candidates for his replacement after years of refinement. A bunch of his candidates show up in 2004, crashing on an island. The island, being magical and stuff, changes them completely, to the point where leaving for a few people makes them want to come back because the island's not done with them (As in, hasn't crossed them out as candidates, and in Kate's case, she wanted to get Claire).

But Smokey doesn't want Jacob to be right, so he kills and manipulates and does all kinds of whacky stuff to get Jacob dead so he can start a war, the aim of which is to leave the island for good by killing all the candidates best he can - no one can stop him from leaving. Apparently him leaving is very very bad.

But, amidst all of this Jacob Vs Smokey drama fun, the characters have been vital from the start. Why else would a hell of a lot of time in each episodes be devoted to characters and their lives, their problems, their pasts, their futures... While there are quite a few flashbacks devoted to both characters' lives and island mythos (Ben and Desmond's, for example), the characters and their backgrounds are given star billing so we, the audience, become emotionally invested enough to care about them.

And, in the end, we finally see a whole bunch of characters finish their arcs (While some don't, which is disappointing, but not at all surprisingly. Thems the brakes with big TV shows - not everything gets resolved), fight wars with natives and themselves, travel through time (To increase the whackiness of the magic island, to give a group of characters some new stuff to play with (Sawyer and Juliet's relationship, for example), add some mythos to the Others, some characters and the Dharma folks and finally to put Jack in such a position that he doesn't want to screw up for his friends ever again, leading to the end of his arc and his final sacrifice) and eventually converge for the big bad war with Smokey.

Meanwhile, because of the whole "magic island" thing, and how it impacted on everybody, the 815ers made their own purgatory. There they learnt to get over some things that dragged them down back while alive (Locke's disability, Ben's Alex issues, Jack's father issues, Kate's running issues), and focus on the important things like true wuv, happiness, all sunshines and rainbows and all that jazz. The purgatory stuff works so well in hindsight for me because it helped along the character arcs to the end. Again, not everything was perfect, but what is these days, kids?

So maybe everything isn't fully explained. Maybe a little mystery and a few throw-ups of "magic, duh" are all that was had in mind of the writers. Also, imagination never hurts, doesn't it? I must be too optimistic or too fanboy here. I must not be a "True Fan" because I don't care that instead of some guy in a room explaining everything about the show, I got purgatory stories in the last season.

Completely ignored the whole damn point of the show

I would've thought the point was that these crazy kids were, you know, lost. In the end, they were found. D'aww...

I spent 6 years, wrapped up in "the island" and what it represented? I wanted to know why these particular people seemed intertwined from the beginning, why were their paths crossing even before they ended up on 815. What was so important about the numbers? Why did the island need to be protected? Why were Jacob and his brother not supposed to leave?

The island could be a metaphor. The island could be a magic island. It could represent the secrets of time and space and magic and many wonderful things. It exists to confuse and to confuzzle. Maybe it needed to be protected because the people way back when decided it so (Jacob's fake mother, who would go on about men being evil and such. She, or maybe people before her, decided that the island was too precious and magical and all that wonderful stuff and they didn't want men to poison it. Their own Island of Eden).

The people were intertwined because of Jacob's magic candidate-making powers. Fate and destiny, some sort of spiritual connection from above. The numbers were the end-game - one of those six would line up with the one to replace Jacob and maybe usher in a new man-friendly regime of the island (With Jacob and his brother gone, the island could be born any new way after thousands of years), which it did with Hurley ("That was Jacob's regime. We do things differently.").

Smokey was bound to the island's heart because of some bad decisions by his family, years of hatred against men poisoning his whole being, and a healthy mix of electromagnetism/magic. Jacob could leave the island, remember, what with his visits to his candidates and all, and probably stayed behind to protect the island, play with his Others and protect them from Smokey.

It's not hard to think of some things to fill in the blanks. I think it's fun, though no doubt some people would think that is the writer's job. But really, a writer who had dug himself in a hole like they did with Lost would write what made sense to them and what they thought could be enough for the audience. I don't think everything was planned out from the start - time travel was probably one pulled out of their asses, but I think enough was given.

To me, anyway. I'll leave the crazy disappointed crowd to themselves, I guess. Can't sway them, but I love that I wasn't disappointed - quite the opposite. Selfish as it may seem, feeling content and remembering the show as great as it was is an awesome positive feeling in a sea of negative people. Good times.

[g.o.d]

the finale was very clear in one thing. The authors never had a plan.

[g.o.d]

the whole God explanation in the BSG is the greatest writing conslusion of all time compared to Lost

[SBN]

the finale was very clear in one thing. The authors never had a plan.

Compare it to almost any story pre-written with the conclusion already determined, planned, or written and you always get a much more fulfilling story as a hole. You may not like it, but it will be fit and proper in the setting of the story. I think the demands for these writers to eventually conclude everything in a proper manner was beyond their skill. And more importantly, as you state they did NOT have a plan.

This was confirmed as fact in an interview with one of either the producers or writers (can't remember which). But essentially they had no idea or plan where this show would go. Well, absolutely no excuse now as they had 6 years to map this story out. They were even given a definitive end date.

I would just love to learn the honest truthful answer from them. Did they really expect to build a show they way they did, then expect we would all just forget it the moment we see some sappy tear jerking ending? I can't wait for the in-depth confessions that will come out years from now where someone will own up to this disaster.

[Morbo]

I too think most people "got it". I "got it". I just didn't like it.

I spent 6 years, wrapped up in "the island" and what it represented? I wanted to know why these particular people seemed intertwined from the beginning, why were their paths crossing even before they ended up on 815. What was so important about the numbers? Why did the island need to be protected? Why were Jacob and his brother not supposed to leave?

What I got was a closure of the sideways universe? Something that only appeared at the beginning of S6. Yes it was nice to see everyone reunite? I could even have lived with the "everyone meets at the end in their own sort of "limbo" and then moves on" if I had gotten answers to questions that were raised from the very beginning.

I still think Lost was a great show. I loved everything about it until the last 15 minutes when imo they did "drop the ball" and make me think that despite what we've been told all this time, they really were just making it up as they went along.

The island was merely the medium to tell the stories of the characters.
We did get closure on a lot of the island - Hurley and Ben are left in charge to protect it. Now that the MiB is gone - protecting it should be a lot easier. Widmore is gone too - so the two main dangers to the island are now gone. Should make living there and taking care of it a heck of a lot easier.
The history of the island, while incredibly interesting, is not the major point - it's that the island was a place where these people who were Lost in their real lives, were able to find themselves through finding each other.

Why did he wait until season 6 to reveal himself and for the 5 first seasons, simply had the others kill/abduct random people, but NOT his candidates.

Jacob's list was all candidates. The Others themselves wanted Walt because he was special in some way and they wanted to investigate that. They wanted Juliette to help them figure out whey they couldn't have babies.

[flobo]

The island was merely the medium to tell the stories of the characters.
We did get closure on a lot of the island - Hurley and Ben are left in charge to protect it. Now that the MiB is gone - protecting it should be a lot easier. Widmore is gone too - so the two main dangers to the island are now gone. Should make living there and taking care of it a heck of a lot easier.
The history of the island, while incredibly interesting, is not the major point - it's that the island was a place where these people who were Lost in their real lives, were able to find themselves through finding each other.



Jacob's list was all candidates. The Others themselves wanted Walt because he was special in some way and they wanted to investigate that. They wanted Juliette to help them figure out whey they couldn't have babies.

I didn't mean Walt. He was sent forever in "unifinished plotline land" years ago. (which prove even more that they didnt have a plan. If they did, they would have know that the show would stay in 2004 for long, and wouldn't have cast a kid).

I meant the kids and the hostess. They abducted them i season 1, they returned in season 3 saying "we're happy to be here", then back again in season 6 before disappearing again somewhere in the middle of the season. What was the point ? They shouldn't have brought them back, it was like saying. "Remember that season 1 mystery, it's still there" and not resolving it in the season.

[marty2006]

The island was merely the medium to tell the stories of the characters.
We did get closure on a lot of the island - Hurley and Ben are left in charge to protect it. Now that the MiB is gone - protecting it should be a lot easier. Widmore is gone too - so the two main dangers to the island are now gone. Should make living there and taking care of it a heck of a lot easier.
The history of the island, while incredibly interesting, is not the major point - it's that the island was a place where these people who were Lost in their real lives, were able to find themselves through finding each other.

Outstanding post.

[marty2006]

I didn't mean Walt. He was sent forever in "unifinished plotline land" years ago. (which prove even more that they didnt have a plan. If they did, they would have know that the show would stay in 2004 for long, and wouldn't have cast a kid).

I meant the kids and the hostess. They abducted them i season 1, they returned in season 3 saying "we're happy to be here", then back again in season 6 before disappearing again somewhere in the middle of the season. What was the point ? They shouldn't have brought them back, it was like saying. "Remember that season 1 mystery, it's still there" and not resolving it in the season.

Its nonsense to state on that single point about Walt, that they never had a plan from the beginning. They had a beginning and an end to the show, with things they wanted to do during it, which they achieved. What show ever has had every single episode planned from the get go? Sure they made a few mistakes along the way like Nikki and Paulo for example and few more. It wasn't perfect but what is? It was a great show and had half the world baffled for years. I will always remember it.

[flobo]

What show ever has had every single episode planned from the get go? S

Babylon 5^^
And that's the problem. Babylon 5 is constructed a lot like Lost, with mysteries and plotline going nonstop from one episode to the next, and with a lot of surprises. Except everything connects in the end, something Lost failed to do.

[marty2006]

Babylon 5^^
And that's the problem. Babylon 5 is constructed a lot like Lost, with mysteries and plotline going nonstop from one episode to the next, and with a lot of surprises. Except everything connects in the end, something Lost failed to do.

I'm sure there were faults with Babylon 5 also. Ive never seen it, it could be a better show than Lost. I never claimed Lost was the best show ever, but it certainly captured the interests of a hell of a lot of people. As previously stated the show was about a group of people who were Lost and had to find themselves and in the end the people that mattered were the ones in the church. Everything else was just along for the ride and to provide entertainment and it certainly entertained me.

[SBN]

The island was merely the medium to tell the stories of the characters.
We did get closure on a lot of the island - Hurley and Ben are left in charge to protect it. Now that the MiB is gone - protecting it should be a lot easier. Widmore is gone too - so the two main dangers to the island are now gone. Should make living there and taking care of it a heck of a lot easier.
The history of the island, while incredibly interesting, is not the major point - it's that the island was a place where these people who were Lost in their real lives, were able to find themselves through finding each other.

Yeah, we never really knew what Widmore's real motives were did we, and they kind of killed him off before explaining that one. So, he wanted the island. And? And to say the island was only the medium, I have to ask did you watch the first 5 seasons? The island and the mysteries was the glue that held everything together. It WAS the show, the central and main character if you will. Now you are essentially saying the island had no other purpose? Thus they could have just shot this at some resort in Mexico. Or maybe a small town in Nebraska...without all the hokey pokey mysteries.

But they did not do that did they? Good lord people, face the freaking facts for what they are. For 5 years the central point of this show was the puzzle. To which you got to see squat. And yet here you are making excuses for what is just piss poor writing and production. Good job, kudos. You send the message back to the studios and networks that they can continue to make substandard quality and the sheep will lap it up as long as you have a nice sappy tear jerk of an ending.

There is no closure to the island as we have just as many, no wait MORE questions than when the show started. Think to the end of the 1st season what you knew then and now. What they did was a bait and switch, I just wish some of you could realize and understand this, because then you would understand why it is this was just the wrong ending. They could have tied up the island questions and still had your happy little tear jerker ending. That would have at least meant that the previous 5 seasons were not such a waste of time.

[Morbo]

I meant the kids and the hostess. They abducted them i season 1, they returned in season 3 saying "we're happy to be here", then back again in season 6 before disappearing again somewhere in the middle of the season. What was the point ? They shouldn't have brought them back, it was like saying. "Remember that season 1 mystery, it's still there" and not resolving it in the season.

They abducted people who were "good." Perhaps they we also possible candidates - not ones that Jacob had originally scouted, but who could possibly turn out that way in the future. Also - since they couldn't have babies, the only way to keep their culture going on the island is to assimilate people into it. They are Borg. Resistance is futile.

Outstanding post.

o/

Yeah, we never really knew what Widmore's real motives were did we, and they kind of killed him off before explaining that one. So, he wanted the island. And? And to say the island was only the medium, I have to ask did you watch the first 5 seasons? The island and the mysteries was the glue that held everything together. It WAS the show, the central and main character if you will. Now you are essentially saying the island had no other purpose? Thus they could have just shot this at some resort in Mexico. Or maybe a small town in Nebraska...without all the hokey pokey mysteries.

But they did not do that did they? Good lord people, face the freaking facts for what they are. For 5 years the central point of this show was the puzzle. To which you got to see squat. And yet here you are making excuses for what is just piss poor writing and production. Good job, kudos. You send the message back to the studios and networks that they can continue to make substandard quality and the sheep will lap it up as long as you have a nice sappy tear jerk of an ending.

There is no closure to the island as we have just as many, no wait MORE questions than when the show started. Think to the end of the 1st season what you knew then and now. What they did was a bait and switch, I just wish some of you could realize and understand this, because then you would understand why it is this was just the wrong ending. They could have tied up the island questions and still had your happy little tear jerker ending. That would have at least meant that the previous 5 seasons were not such a waste of time.

We don't know who built Stonehenge. We don't know how the pyramids were built. We don't know what happened to Atlantis. We don't know much about Easter Island. Was there life on Mars? The real world has tons of mysteries that are simply that - mysteries. We don't know, we may never know. Sure it's interesting to think on them but in the end we'll be left without answers.
Yes, the island was super intriguing, and it kept people interested in it's history. But the producers from the start have always said LOST is about the characters. Again, the island was a vessel that drove these characters to their ultimate ends or realizations.
Everything happens for a reason.
Am I upset we didn't find out all the amazing details? Sure. I'd love to know about the history of the island - that kind of stuff excites me. The theories and the guesses and the hunting of clues was an exciting part of the series. But again, they were just pieces in the puzzle main picture.