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    #16
    Well despite knowing what was coming, that was not quite what I was expecting. Top class tv for the most part, but the preview made out the episode to be a faced paced actiony episode, it actually turned out to be rather slower paced and dramatic. I really have a problem marking the episode, most of it was excellent, but there was one serious misstep, and that was the lack of showing any battles. In fact in the sea of praise around the net for this episode, this is about the only real criticism I've heard. Some people have argued that as the show will struggle with battles because of its budget. I don't buy that at all. Firstly I've seen lower budgeted shows do far more grand stuff, like in the Borgia's and the Tudors. Also in this ep many of the shots seem epic, such as the Twins, the scenery around the Drothraki camp and the actual aftermath of the battle that we see. I actually don't mind them not showing the battle Tyrion was in, (in the book he fights, but as far as I remember still gets knocked down early on) because as it turns out it was inconsequential, it was a diversion. What should have happened though is that after Tywin told Tyrion that they had only faced 2000 men and the other 18,000 were with Robb, it should have then cut to the actual attack on Jaime's camp. What's more as a battle scene it probably wouldn't have cost much to film, because it's in a forest, obscuring a lot. Just focus on Jaime as he cuts down men, before he's captured. It would have made it much more dramatic, and would have been a good opportunity to see the Kingslayer unleashed as it were.

    What we got in the show was almost verbatim from the book, where we see things from Cat's perspective, waiting for Robb to return. But that's the book, this is a tv series, they need to show, not tell. In a book, someone describing a battle to someone else who was not there, pretty much can convey the same information, as if said character is there and the battle is described directly. Obviously in a show that doesn't work as well. To be fair to the episode they had a lot to fit in, including of course the execution of Ned, which presumably tptb realised would dominate the episode. But still for future seasons, they need to up their game. Westeros dissolves into the War of the Five Kings, and there are at least a couple of major battles in the books that cannot be glossed over. While character and their interactions with each other are the most important things is the book, I hope HBO realise this is an epic series of books they are adapting, with epic wars, and strange otherworldly creatures. They obviously can't go all LOTR scale, but they still need to show some of it to be effective. I'm certainly not ready to declare the series ruined forever, far from it most of the episode was brilliant, but I hope that fan sites such as Winter is Coming address tptb over these concerns and that they answer and reassure us in the coming months. Hopefully, know that they have also buil many of the sets, they will have more money to spare for season 2. I also want to see what episode 10 will bring, that may, as the season finale may prove to be more epic and answer any fears. I also hold out for maybe some sort of flashback for Jaime in the next ep, so it shows him fighting the Starks at his camp.

    Long rant, but the majority of the episode was fantastic still imo. Loved the Dothraki stuff, strongest moments from that setting yet, and the ominous sounds from the tent and Jorah Mormont being badass were all good. Peter Vaughan nailed it as Vaughn, as did David Bradley as Walder Frey. The ending scene was beyond fantastic and totally lived up to the hype. So still brilliant, it's just at this point I'm expecting best ever. Partially I blame the previews, because while it was all dramatic and cool it completely mis sold what type of episode it was going to be. They screwed up again for the episode 10, spoiling a dramatic and surprising episode, though I suppose they needed a hook to make sure no one jumped ship after Ned's demise.
    Last edited by The Mighty 6 platoon; 13 June 2011, 06:37 AM.

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      #17
      My view on the deaths in the series. The deaths are not cheap and for shock. For once an author and now a show has things right. People didn't always live nice long lives especially given the circumstances that the characters are living in this series. Death is always lurking around the corner no one is safe. Ned was an Honorable man who did what he believed was the right thing. In the end he saved honored what Sansa had done for him. Did it turn out the way he believed it would? No but that doesn't make his death cheep or necessarily shocking, Joffery is an @$$ one that is a coward and is trying to break away from his mother who has until then been telling him exactly what he needs to do.

      Loved the ep although that is not surprising. The death of Ned was very well done love the sound of the breathing and the silence after the face. Typical trick for Dramatic moments but still very well done.

      It is a joy to see the changes in Dany from the scared young woman that was forced into a marriage she didn't want, to a strong capable leader.
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        #18
        Originally posted by dragongirl View Post
        My view on the deaths in the series. The deaths are not cheap and for shock. For once an author and now a show has things right. People didn't always live nice long lives especially given the circumstances that the characters are living in this series. Death is always lurking around the corner no one is safe. Ned was an Honorable man who did what he believed was the right thing. In the end he saved honored what Sansa had done for him. Did it turn out the way he believed it would? No but that doesn't make his death cheep or necessarily shocking, Joffery is an @$$ one that is a coward and is trying to break away from his mother who has until then been telling him exactly what he needs to do.
        Deaths that are done purely for shock value, typically do it for the initial shock (obviously ) but then often gloss over any consequences. That does not happen here, every characters death has an impact, everything is important. The books and of course now the show will explore the consequences of his death and the impact it has on those who knew him.

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          #19
          Exactly! There are shows that had death just for shock value LOST comes to mind on that front. To have a show where no one is safe and anyone could die because of the situation these people find themselves is so refreshing something a little more true to life. Life is not happy ever after, Life doesn't have deaths just to be shocking they have an impact and this show does that.
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            #20
            Originally posted by dragongirl View Post
            Exactly! There are shows that had death just for shock value LOST comes to mind on that front. To have a show where no one is safe and anyone could die because of the situation these people find themselves is so refreshing something a little more true to life. Life is not happy ever after, Life doesn't have deaths just to be shocking they have an impact and this show does that.
            Indeed. To use an example of a death that was accused of shock value, Carson's death in SGA, didn't really have a major impact after Sunday. Next episode, back to normal. In GOT, things will not be going back to normal. Characters in 4 or 5 years time, touchwood when the show gets that far, will not forget what happened in the first season.

            What's more that swing of the sword has just ignited the entire continent of Westeros into war. Not just Stark vs Lannister, Ned's death shows Joffery will kill anyone who he does not completely trust, anyone who has opposed him in any way. That means not only thre Starks, but the Baratheons, and the Greyjoys have no choice, fight or die.

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              #21
              Oh Yes. He thinks he is showing his strength but he doesn't realize that he needs to use his brain as well to run the 7 Kingdoms. People will look at his actions and see that if he has so little regard for the life of a Lord like Ned Stark than what of the lesser people. Since it has only been what 17 years in the tv series since Robert had taken the crown it can be done again.
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                #22
                holy ****
                Stolen Kosovo
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by dragongirl View Post
                  Oh Yes. He thinks he is showing his strength but he doesn't realize that he needs to use his brain as well to run the 7 Kingdoms. People will look at his actions and see that if he has so little regard for the life of a Lord like Ned Stark than what of the lesser people. Since it has only been what 17 years in the tv series since Robert had taken the crown it can be done again.
                  One of the things I like about the series is the way that not all of the characters are super smart, some obviously are, but many of them, be they good or bad, aren't always the sharpest tools in the box, and, as in real life, make mistakes. Ned was a good soldier, but not cut out for political life. Joffery thinks he is, but in reality he's an idiot. When Cersei was telling him to stop at the Ned, it was not out of any care for Ned's welfare, but rather because she realised that this was a huge political mistake.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
                    One of the things I like about the series is the way that not all of the characters are super smart, some obviously are, but many of them, be they good or bad, aren't always the sharpest tools in the box, and, as in real life, make mistakes. Ned was a good soldier, but not cut out for political life. Joffery thinks he is, but in reality he's an idiot. When Cersei was telling him to stop at the Ned, it was not out of any care for Ned's welfare, but rather because she realised that this was a huge political mistake.
                    As I've said before, this series does an excellent job portraying reality and how life really is. There are no martyr heroes or over-the-top villains. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. It has fantasy aspects, but at its core, the story is about so much more.
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                      #25
                      I wonder what will happen next well I guess I'll have to find out during a long hiatus by reading all remaning books.

                      it's good to see that almost all characters aren't supersmart. I though Joffrey would learn something when Cersein talked about being a smart ruler in one of the past episodes. Obviously he didn't learn a thing. Jack Gleeson is a great actor. He makes me to hate Joffrey more and more with each episode.
                      Last edited by g.o.d; 13 June 2011, 08:10 AM.
                      Stolen Kosovo
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                        #26
                        Exactly. It is a big reason I love the show so much. Everyone has their flaws everyone has their good points. There is always a reason to everything that happens even if we don't understand exactly what that is when it happens.
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                          #27
                          Originally posted by g.o.d View Post
                          Obviously he didn't learn a thing. Jack Gleeson is a great actor. He makes me to hate Joffrey more and more with each episode.
                          Poor lad. He's a great actor, and the behind the scenes interviews I've seen with him seem to show that in reality he's a nice chap. But he's playing the most hated character in the show, who's just ordered one of the most shocking and horrifying moments in tv history. Everyone is going one about how much they hate his character. Hope he doesn't get hate mail.

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                            #28
                            Cersei is definitely worse than Joff. He's arrogant and not very bright, but she's just plain devious. Probably my most hated character.
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                              #29
                              I like Cersei lol; I think she's a good manipulative witch of an antagonist; I actually feel bad for her at times(moreso in the tv series). Joffery is worse(imo) because he seems purposfully cruel, and seems to enjoy hurting people, instead of just scheming to get the upper hand or better his postion. He's young and spoiled, and used to getting what he wants; he doesn't think about the consequences and that makes more dangerous in a way.

                              Regarding the deaths in this series; I've never felt that they were thrown in there for shock value or because the author got bored with the character(s) or didn't know what to do with them so they were written out for no good reason. All the deaths made sense to me and fit the world created; they didn't feel like they came out of the blue to me. The deaths were important(particularly the ones this season) and they happened for a reason. The impact of what happens is felt by the other characters and things get even more interesting imo.
                              Last edited by VampyreWraith; 13 June 2011, 09:27 AM.
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                                #30
                                Wow. Just wow.

                                Okay, so I was spoilt (stupid Wiki ) and knew Ned wasn't going to make it but I was sure it would happen in the last episode of the season. So I had my surprise despite spoilers

                                Also, I have another question. Previous episodes gave me the impression that after rough start Dany warmed up to Drogo, considerably, and they came to like each other. In Drogo's case, maybe even something more. But in this episode she all of a sudden acted like she was deeply in love with him and that left me a little confused. Were they in love in the book?

                                Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
                                I really have a problem marking the episode, most of it was excellent, but there was one serious misstep, and that was the lack of showing any battles
                                Hmm..Honestly, I don't mind lack of battles. Show's gore-ish enough as it is and as long as the battles aren't important in terms of what happens to the characters (being killed or injured) I can live without them.

                                But still for future seasons, they need to up their game. Westeros dissolves into the War of the Five Kings, and there are at least a couple of major battles in the books that cannot be glossed over.
                                Wait, what? 5 kings? As in Joffrey and 4 other pretendents/rebels?

                                Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                                Regarding the deaths in this series; I've never felt that they were thrown in there for shock value or because the author got bored with the character(s) or didn't know what to do with them so they were written out for no good reason. All the deaths made sense to me and fit the world created; they didn't feel like they came out of the blue to me. The deaths were important(particularly the ones this season) and they happened for a reason. The impact of what happens is felt by the other characters and things get even more interesting imo.
                                Yep, this. Also, the series is based on novels so my expectations are a little different to what they would be if it was original series. Now it feels like they have a script they need to adhere to, and books are usually more daring than any tv series, IMO, so it's no surprise they take bigger risks with the characters.

                                Still, Ned.
                                There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                                awesome sig by Josiane

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