Game of Thrones Books (Spoilers for everything)

[VampyreWraith]

I love Jon. I love reading things from his pov.

Massive spoilers for things that happen towards the end of ADwD.

Spoiler:

I skipped ahead and read Jon's last chapter, and

Spoiler:

even just based on that chapter alone(without factoring in dreams, prophecies, and the fact that him dying at this point in the story would be kind of um.. pointless) I really don't think he's dead. I can see GhostJon(as in the direwolf), ZombieJon, or reborn to fullfill prophecy Jon (I think any version of Jon could be doing some kind of prophecy fullfilling stuff though) I don't care which Jon is in the next book, I just want him to have pov chapters, because I really love Jon's pov, and would miss them. I would still keep reading though even if he is confirmed dead at the beginning of the next book, but I really don't see that being the case( I know I have a bad case of wishfull thinking lol )

[MattSilver 3k]

Book finished. Unlike VampireWrath, I actually, you know, read the whole lot in order. Like a normal person.

Spoiler:

Jesus mother****ing son of a *****. Jon.

[VampyreWraith]

I usually don't read things in order, even though I really try, I'm too impatient. I like going through my fav pov's first(or the ones I'm most interested in). Anyway, I'd already accidently read a certain spoiler beforehand, and wanted to see how true it was, so reading in order was really too hard for me to do. But I went back to where I left off reading in order, and I've almost finished going through everything else that I didn't read already.

Spoiler:

I loved the Jon chapters, and his last chapter was sad but here was a lot of warning for it. I don't think he's dead; mainly because there would be no reason not to confirm it with another pov at the wall if he really was dead(with no chance of coming back in some way). It wouldn't have taken that many pages to do, so it feels like theres has to be more to it.
I did read an interview with the editor where she said that 2 scenes(chapters?) had to be taken out because the book was already too long as it was. I'm not saying that these had to do with Jon, but one of them might have, so I don't know.
I see leaving it ambiguous as being better than confirm his death at the end of this book, only to ressurect him or whatever at the beginning of the next; especially since different ways for him to come back were shown/hinted at during this book(and earlier ones). Leaving his death uncertain only to confirm him being truly dead(and never coming back), at the start of the next book wouldn't really make too much sense to me, and would seem too shock valuey. Anyway, I hope he's not dead, but even if he is, there are still a lot of other characters that I'm interested in and I wanna know how it ends.

I really liked Bran's, and Theon's chapters, and they weren't even ones that I was looking forward to reading that much.

[MattSilver 3k]

I usually don't read things in order, even though I really try, I'm too impatient. I like going through my fav pov's first(or the ones I'm most interested in). Anyway, I'd already accidently read a certain spoiler beforehand, and wanted to see how true it was, so reading in order was really too hard for me to do. But I went back to where I left off reading in order, and I've almost finished going through everything else that I didn't read already.

Spoiler:

I loved the Jon chapters, and his last chapter was sad but here was a lot of warning for it. I don't think he's dead; mainly because there would be no reason not to confirm it with another pov at the wall if he really was dead(with no chance of coming back in some way). It wouldn't have taken that many pages to do, so it feels like theres has to be more to it.
I did read an interview with the editor where she said that 2 scenes(chapters?) had to be taken out because the book was already too long as it was. I'm not saying that these had to do with Jon, but one of them might have, so I don't know.
I see leaving it ambiguous as being better than confirm his death at the end of this book, only to ressurect him or whatever at the beginning of the next; especially since different ways for him to come back were shown/hinted at during this book(and earlier ones). Leaving his death uncertain only to confirm him being truly dead(and never coming back), at the start of the next book wouldn't really make too much sense to me, and would seem too shock valuey. Anyway, I hope he's not dead, but even if he is, there are still a lot of other characters that I'm interested in and I wanna know how it ends.

I really liked Bran's, and Theon's chapters, and they weren't even ones that I was looking forward to reading that much.

I think the chapters left out of Dance were a Sansa one and an Aeron one, if I recall something George said.

Spoiler:

Trouble is, I can see Jon's death sticking. It's a tragic end, yes, and there are still mysteries unsolved about him (His parentage), but I can see the story without Jon, as sucky as it sounds. If, for example, Rhaegar is actually his father, the story would be less about his parentage and more about how Rhaegar impregnating Lyanna started this whole mess. He's a major player, and somebody I'd hate to actually see die, but if he's dead, it's possible he won't be revived or will survive multiple stab wounds... Sucky, but yeah.

I loved Bran's and Theon's chapters. And Quentyn's. And... well, everyone's.

[VampyreWraith]

I think the chapters left out of Dance were a Sansa one and an Aeron one, if I recall something George said.

Spoiler:

Trouble is, I can see Jon's death sticking. It's a tragic end, yes, and there are still mysteries unsolved about him (His parentage), but I can see the story without Jon, as sucky as it sounds. If, for example, Rhaegar is actually his father, the story would be less about his parentage and more about how Rhaegar impregnating Lyanna started this whole mess. He's a major player, and somebody I'd hate to actually see die, but if he's dead, it's possible he won't be revived or will survive multiple stab wounds... Sucky, but yeah.

I loved Bran's and Theon's chapters. And Quentyn's. And... well, everyone's.

Spoiler:

If Jon really is dead and in no way coming back(not even as GhostJon or ZombieJon) at the beginning of the next book, I'd be more disappointed that his death wasn't confirmed in ADwD and dragged out, than I disappointed because Jon is actually dead.

I thought Bran being able to see through the weirwoods was one of the coolest things, I wasn't expecting that for him. I liked the Dany chapters the least, but I think they were good for her character.

[MattSilver 3k]

My current theory on Jon is...

Spoiler:

He'll jump to Ghost as soon as his body dies, escape dying again as Ghost (Versus the Boar skinchanger that was alluded to near the end), and eventually get his body back, wight or Mellisandre's reanimation or whatever.

The thing that makes me think he'll go to Ghost is the prologue, with Sixskins jumping to his wolf after death, and a prophecy of Mell's early on, about Jon Snow going from man to wolf and back again.

Yeah, I no longer believe he's dead. Well... he's dead, but not done.

[VampyreWraith]

^Yeah

Spoiler:

I think Jon going in to Ghost seems like definite, I can't see a real reason why he couldn't/wouldn't at least go into Ghost; and with the Jon related vision Mel was seeing in the fire while she was asking after Stannis and Azor Ahai, to just have Jon be dead at the start of the next book would feel wrong to me

[Lahela]

*looks at all the spoiler tags*
I'll be back in this thread when I've finished the book

[MattSilver 3k]

A very good idea. More thoughts, and ending spoilers.

Spoiler:

Man, looking back, poor Quentyn. Dude's got a very solid, if short, storyline, and it ends horribly. I truly think he was destined to be Viserion's rider, but if Rhaegal hadn't roasted him... Yeesh, just as depressing as Jon's death (Mostly because Quen's is permanent).

Oh, and Kevan! He was my third-favourite Lannister. Killed for being sane and level-headed. What a way to go.

[VampyreWraith]

ADwD ending realated stuff

Spoiler:

I liked Ser Kevan, and felt bad that he dies(didn't care much about Pycelle), but I like the way it was done. It was creepy; Varys was creepy.(the way I pictured it anyway)

Quentyn's attempt at dragon taming was tragic, getting burned alive by a dragon can't be fun. I felt bad for him because he didn't really want to be there. I liked Quentyn, but I wasn't that upset by his death.

I didn't care much for Dany's taste in men. It seemed like she was miscarrying at the end, so I guess she isn't barren.

Ramsey Bolton needs to die soon(preferably a horrible death) He's just so nasty, and sadistic.

I wonder if Stannis is really dead or if he's just being held hostage(and tortured) by Ramsay. I never cared for Stannis, I don't dislike him, I just don't really care much what happens to him personally(but I care in relation to the story)

[Cold Fuzz]

I'm still near the beginning of A Dance with Dragons as I'm constantly busy with work and real life but I just had a thought about the entire series in general.

The Azor Ahai prophecy states, like other religious prophecies in the real world, that Azor Ahai will return to the world to rise up and challenge the Others, wielding Lightbringer no less. In the thousands of pages I've read so far, I don't remember the prophecy stating that the Azor Ahai will actually succeed. If Azor Ahai fails this time, presumably the world will fall.

What if this is the story that GRRM set out to write from the beginning? Dany, with pages upon pages about her being of the dragon, is almost undoubtedly Azor Ahai. I wonder if she's supposed to fail and that this entire series is supposed to be an apocalypse story with no rebirth at the end?

I'm reminded of when Sansa and Cersei were waiting for the outcome of the Battle of the Blackwater. Sansa said that true knights wouldn't harm women and children. Cersei, amused by Sansa's fantasy, says to her, "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now."

GRRM has setup some expectations, at least for me, for Dany to come to Westeros, almost as a savior figure. I wonder if he deliberately setup that expectation to have it fall to pieces much like Sansa's expectation for her dream knight to come rescue her from her misery? It's a depressing thought but given the tone of the series, it wouldn't be surprising to me if this is what ultimately happens in the end.

[MattSilver 3k]

Well, actually... In vague terms, I'll say that the AA thing gets a shot in the arm thanks to a new POV and the events with a certain character who's been around since book one. You have to go into the story a lot more before drawing conclusions, man. It's a fun ride, so no loss.

[Huaracocha]

I'm currently reading AFFC.. I'm curious how this one stacks up in the mind of most readers? Personally I'm finding it to be a bit lacking compared to earlier instalments.

Partly because of characters I'm missing who aren't involved. Partly because the story seems to meander very slowly, even more so than the first half of book 2. Mainly because I loathe the pointless ironborn.

There are plenty of characters I hate in this series - but in a "love to hate" kind of sense. In the way that I can take real delight and glee in horrible things happening to them which they richly deserve. The ironborn chapters just seem to me dull most of the time and the people laughable charicatures. The sooner they all drown and go back to their stupid God the better. I'll just be relieved to get on with the real story without them. If they manage to get their hands on Dany's dragons that might be the last straw for me

I can only imagine the irritation I'd be feeling if I'd been reading these books as they came out. I'm starting to understand some of the frustration directed at GRRM from long-time fans of the series over the delays in publishing the 2 most recent instalments.

Still there's plenty I am enjoying in AFFC and looking forward to (hopefully) getting back on track in book 5.

[Shylodog]

Ok, so it was my fault for reading the spoilers halfway through ADwD. But I gotta say some of you guys' speculations threw me way off...

Spoiler:

I don't think Stannis has been caught at all. All we've seen is The Bastard's nasty little note claiming that he is. What we DO know is that the freak's got Mance and his ladies and has probably been flaying them for info. Other than that, I don't believe for a second he's actually got Stannis (especially since he doesn't know where Theon and Jeyne are - and knows nothing about Asha).

Also, I don't think Jon is dead. He's been shanked enough times, but all we know is that he's lost consciousness.

I'm still very confused about Dany's bleeding. Maybe the witch cast a spell on Dany to prevent her from having a child, or maybe the berries Dany ate are the core ingredient for Moon Tea. Either way, it DOES seem like she miscarried, but I just can't tell for sure.

Still have to read the epilogue, but all-in-all it was a fun ride.

[Cold Fuzz]

I haven't had much time for reading as some real-life adventures have left me reeling and exhausted. I just finished the chapter "The Lost Lord."

Spoiler:

OK WTF?! All of a sudden I'm looking at Dany and what's happened to her in all the books a bit differently. I'm wondering now whether the Azor Ahai prophecy can refer to the Targaryen family in general. Three heads, one dragon.