Subject 13 (315)

[the fifth man]

I really enjoyed this episode. I love all the backstory we are starting to get.

[Commander Zelix]

There are three options here: The first is that it's just trauma. Think about what they go through after all this - Olivia nearly murders her step-father and is haunted by that all through her teens, her mother dies, Rachel starts going through her stuff, and then by the time she's in the pilot she's dealing with the whole John trauma. Peter, meanwhile, probably spends the next few years convinced he's crazy about the whole other universe thing, and then has his mother drink herself to death over the course of his teenage years.

That, or it's another mystery to be answered.

That, or writer's retcon. I'll let this one slide, personally. I don't exactly watch the show for the attention to detail on the tiny things, really.

A poster in another forum post the ultimate answer about all this. Clearly it was intended that way by the writers from the beginning. It's not trauma.

This is an excerpt from the episode "Bad Dreams". The episode case is about Nick, the little boy with the teddy bear in Subject 13, who is an reverse-empath that end up at the top of a building ready to commit suicide with other people in tow when Olivia try to reach to him at the top of the building. And they have this conversation:

NICK LANE: Olive. You heard me. You heard me - you came. You were always the strong one. Whenever I got scared, you could make me feel better. Do you remember, Olive? [edit: nice set up for the teddy bear moment in Subject 13 were Olivia did made him feel better]
OLIVIA: I’m sorry, no, I don't.
NICK LANE: That’s okay. I think they meant for us to forget. I just couldn't. I did what they told us. I waited Olive. The soldier to come is both natural and unnatural. I waited to be called up. You stay fit; stay focused, and stay ready. I wore the blacks and grays. I blended in. But the call never came. It never came. Then, that man with the glasses, he showed up at the hospital. He spoke all the old words. He said they're coming. He needed warriors. He said... "what was written will come to pass." He said he knew how to wake me up. I shouldn't have listened to him. Sometimes what we wake up, it can't be put back to sleep.

Clearly Nick is referring to the fact that somehow (which is a scientific detail like hypnoses or synapse altering device) they made the cortexiphan trials children forget about the experiments and that their memory and abilities can be re-activated at the proper time (when the war begins).

I re-watch the episode "Bad dream" from season 1. It's really fun to rewatch some episodes from previous seasons with the depth and multiple layers brought up by season 3. It makes you appreciate them differently and even more.

I wonder who that man with the glasses is...

[magictrick]

Ok there is no way that Peter would not remember this happening. Or the fact that he strongly believed he was from another universe. Olivia not remembering it I can buy just because of all she went through. But with Peter it is different, and he was at the age where children remember this kind of stuff. Maybe he wouldn't remember meeting Olivia, but the part about universes would definitely stick with him.

It was great that they showed us this, but that part just annoyed me.

[DigiFluid]

Maybe we'll get a Part 3 that explains it.

[Commander Zelix]

Ok there is no way that Peter would not remember this happening. Or the fact that he strongly believed he was from another universe. Olivia not remembering it I can buy just because of all she went through. But with Peter it is different, and he was at the age where children remember this kind of stuff. Maybe he wouldn't remember meeting Olivia, but the part about universes would definitely stick with him.

It was great that they showed us this, but that part just annoyed me.

First, let's just repeat that all cortexiphan children were made to forget about the experiments. This may include Peter.

But I think exactly the reverse that you. I would say that it's completely possible for Peter to forget about the other world and all that. At one time, Peter simply accepted that it was a far and distant childhood fantasy. Same as Peter and Olivia forgetting about each other. The only reason is because they were so young.

But no way Olivia would have forgot ALL about many years of cortexiphan experiments. You may not remember you second grade teacher or very vaguely, but you do remember your primary school a bit. Since she was a child, maybe she wouldn't remember the details of the experiments (since it's like a play) but she would remember some vague thing about it. Hence why cortexiphan children were made to forget about it.

-------------

On a slightly different subject here some nice quote for the episode Bad Dream:

WALTER: It worked on perception. Carlos Castaneda, Aldus Huxley, Werner Heisenberg, all focused on one single elementary truth. Perception is the key to transformation.

PETER: Reality is both subjective and malleable. If you can dream a better world, you can make a better world.

WALTER: Or perhaps travel between them. [edit: mmmm, foreshadowing]

PETER: What did you just say?

Clearly Peter didn't forget all about what his "mother" told him.

[magictrick]

But no way Olivia would have forgot ALL about many years of cortexiphan experiments. You may not remember you second grade teacher or very vaguely, but you do remember your primary school a bit. Since she was a child, maybe she wouldn't remember the details of the experiments (since it's like a play) but she would remember some vague thing about it. Hence why cortexiphan children were made to forget about it.

I wonder how old they are supposed to be in that episode. I know I remember all my grade school teachers and some of the significant events that happened during that period.

[LtColCarter]

I wonder how old they are supposed to be in that episode. I know I remember all my grade school teachers and some of the significant events that happened during that period.

Well, you go with your super memory powers! In the episode Ability, Olivia said she was 3 in 1981...so in 1985 she would be 7. So I could see how she would forget some things. And don't forget, that sometimes our mind blocks out trauma.

[jmoz]

I find myself liking Walter less and less for some reason, experimenting on kids. Doing that to Peter. Hopefully they explain what happens in the past that ties into the future rather than giving character insight.

Retro intro's awesome though. They should have one for every decade.

[LtColCarter]

I find myself liking Walter less and less for some reason, experimenting on kids. Doing that to Peter. Hopefully they explain what happens in the past that ties into the future rather than giving character insight.

Retro intro's awesome though. They should have one for every decade.

I don't hold it against Walter now. He's a different person now.

[Commander Zelix]

I find myself liking Walter less and less for some reason, experimenting on kids. Doing that to Peter. Hopefully they explain what happens in the past that ties into the future rather than giving character insight.

There's no doubt that Walter's immoral experiments on children is part of the story. Walter must have realized he had become a monster too because he asked Bell to remove part of his brain because he was afraid of what he was becoming. I wonder how radical, or not, Walter will become now that he's trying to revive the part of this brain that were missing. I think "the ends justify the means" will become Walter's favorite phrases in season 4.

[LtColCarter]

There's no doubt that Walter's immoral experiments on children is part of the story. Walter must have realized he had become a monster too because he asked Bell to remove part of his brain because he was afraid of what he was becoming. I wonder how radical, or not, Walter will become now that he's trying to revive the part of this brain that were missing. I think "the ends justify the means" will become Walter's favorite phrases in season 4.

As long as the "ends" isn't the end of our universe!

[Dusk]

I thoroughly enjoyed this, our second, blast from the past episode. Young Peter and Olivia were awesomely portrayed here. And whilst some of you hated the stylistic 80s cinematography, I have to say it was one of the highlights for me! Especially Walter's lab footage with Olivia, just brilliant. And details, details... right down to BSG, Ghostbusters and G.I. Joe toys in original packaging for the toy store.

I too am wondering how these kids could forget their time here, but as some have speculated there may be an incident which forces a memory block that we may see later. There's also the alleged suicide of Elizabeth and Olivia's evil stepfather (who finally makes an appearance!) and the whole incident with him when she was nine.

Love. Ing. It.

[Huaracocha]

I can buy Nick's explanation that the Cortexephan kids were made to forget. As for Peter, he had been very ill for a very long time as we are often reminded. So it's quite plausible he would have had a lot of jumbled and confused memories from his early childhood. Combine that with constantly being told he was dreaming it, later trauma and his (presumed) natural desire to accept the scenario being given to him by his 'parents' and it's possible he'd forget / bury the "I'm from another universe" fantasy.

Not remembering meeting Olivia, rescuing her etc is much more of a stretch to me. I don't buy he'd forget that naturally - especially when confronted with the facts already established about the Cortexephan trials and Olivia's involvement. It's not a huge leap to think that Walter may have suppressed his memories of Olivia too I guess but it is a bit of one. Maybe it will become clear in the future.. or should that be the past!

[LtColCarter]

I can buy Nick's explanation that the Cortexephan kids were made to forget. As for Peter, he had been very ill for a very long time as we are often reminded. So it's quite plausible he would have had a lot of jumbled and confused memories from his early childhood. Combine that with constantly being told he was dreaming it, later trauma and his (presumed) natural desire to accept the scenario being given to him by his 'parents' and it's possible he'd forget / bury the "I'm from another universe" fantasy.

Not remembering meeting Olivia, rescuing her etc is much more of a stretch to me. I don't buy he'd forget that naturally - especially when confronted with the facts already established about the Cortexephan trials and Olivia's involvement. It's not a huge leap to think that Walter may have suppressed his memories of Olivia too I guess but it is a bit of one. Maybe it will become clear in the future.. or should that be the past!

I agree with you here.