Prepare for Starburst: A Farscape Rewatch Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Another week. Another me playing as FH.

You're getting quite good at it.

I don't know about but I want whatever the writers were smoking when they wrote this episode.

No thanks.

[Gatefan1976]

Sydney Olympic Park:
http://www.sydney.com/destinations/s...y-olympic-park

[Falcon Horus]

Cool!

[Bluemeany]

Another week. Another me playing as FH.

I’ll be (a pale imitation of) Jel then and start the discussion re. people's comments.

An unbeliever?Of what?

Of the freaky dark awesomeness that is ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’! It’s my favourite episode.

Amongst the visual highlights of the episode is Lani Tupu in red high heels, carrying a small dog. "I put the heels on, tottered around and fell against the car twice”

Ohhhh… are they meant to be like ruby slippers? Is that why he’s in red high heels? I missed that. I got Toto as an obvious Wizard of Oz reference. And I think Crichton had a line about feeling like a ‘house got dropped on him’.

"It often annoys me," director Rowan Woods says, "that people read into that episode a certain flippancy, a certain joke-telling aesthetic which, of course is running rampant through the story. But it is a very serious, dark, emotional piece at the same time.

Well got to say, the director got what he wanted. This episode is unflinchingly dark.

[Falcon Horus]

I’ll be (a pale imitation of) Jel then and start the discussion re. people's comments.

It's easier to imitate me than to try Jel.

Of the freaky dark awesomeness that is ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’! It’s my favourite episode.

Tastes differ, cause it doesn't even make the favorite list.
Too chaotic.

Ohhhh… are they meant to be like ruby slippers? Is that why he’s in red high heels?

I thought that was a reference to a movie with some famous actor playing a cop I think wearing red heels, dressed up as a women and rained down hell on the bad guys. I don't know.

[Bluemeany]

It's easier to imitate me than to try Jel.

I love Zhaan.
SQ has an eating problem.
Did I mention I love Zhaan?
Urgh…shipping….
Pass me the barf bucket.

[Falcon Horus]

I love Zhaan.
SQ has an eating problem.
Did I mention I love Zhaan?
Urgh…shipping….
Pass me the barf bucket.

When you put it that way...

Definitely easier to be Jelgate.

[jelgate]

I love other characters. I have mentioned my love of Pilot and Dargo

[jelgate]

The Locket

I guess I am not the only one behind this week. Their has been some bad mouthing of my stance of shipping this week. I'm looking at you blue. Their is really I think a two folded aspect of this episode. One is the shipping (we'll get to that shortly). The other aspect is time travel. The notion of a planet that is experiencing time differently is nothing new. Its a staple of science fiction. Normally I would go on how Farscape gives this a unique twist. This time it just isn't so. The whole time things seems like nothing more as a reason for John and Aeryn to age rapidly. Even the solution is simple by the nature of the time dilation mist. We can just go backwards and that will fix everything since Moya was never completely in the mist. Its too simplistic for a reason that I barely understood. I had to watch Stark's explanation 3 times and I still had trouble comprehending. Time travel hurts my head. So that leads us to the fact that this was a shipping episode. I know what you are thinking. I have my barf bucket ready. Well guess what? You are wrong Despite what some of you might think I'm not against shipping. Its just natural that people are going to form attachments on a ship like Moya. I just don't like it in your face where it takes over the whole show. Now back to the reason I don't mind shipping in this episode. It feels more real and organic. Particularly I am talking about old man John and Aeryn. I really like seeing them grow old and see how all that time has changed them and yet made them the same. It was clear John's face was in the locket. but I still like them conversing and saying goodbye to one another. I for one thought it was sad and spoke to their relationship when Aeryn died in the transport pod? I kind of wish I was a Peacekeeper so I could live to be 200. I also think this is the first time we see the Zhaan/Stark ship. BTW, yay Stark is back Even if the explanation for his return is weak, I'm glad we can see our insane friend. The solution to the time travel issue was to form some bonding between the two. Zhaan has said how personal Unity is so I think we can say that the time travel was to form a bond between the two. After all, no one even remembers these events anyway. Finally, I love how this episode sets up the Liars, Guns, and Money trilogy. That is one of my favorite arcs. Anyway, I love the look of confusion on D'Argo's face of what to do in how he attacks Stark. It reinforces what I have said for two seasons of how conflicted he feels on what to do. It seems random but I forgot to mention the love of the Harvey scene. I think its a foreshadowing to show how far the neural chip will destroy John

[Bluemeany]

Yep, I’m behind too. Even more so with the time difference… it’ll be Thursday here in a minute.

The Locket

A melancholic episode this one. As Jel mentioned, it’s not big on the science. But they are kind of blatant about it. It’s like the writer has decided they could do it all technical and proper-like but they are more interested in John and Aeryn living out a life together.

I can go with that approach actually. This episode made me cry quite a few times the first time I watched it. And I agree Jel, old John and Aeryn are totally believable as the people their younger versions grow into. The make up’s not bad either.

I adore Aeryn’s line: ‘Look at you. I’d forgotten how beautiful you were. You’re so young’. The sentiment it expresses is not the type of line female characters get a lot in film/tv. Claudia Black nails the delivery. I just love it.

The music is nice too. Strange, sad and slow with a sort of ‘ticking’ quality to it.

Old Crichton’s got a(nother) new obsession here: getting back to his old Moya life. Add that to the Aeryn/ Earth/Farscape project/wormholes list. Fixating on something and using it to drive himself does seem to be integral part of the character.

Here’s a question:

Spoiler:

could Ennix be John’s granddaughter too? The way peacekeeper pregnancy is explained in season 4 (which I’m still a bit fuzzy on to be honest) the father of her children could be anyone Aeryn’s slept with in the past seven years?

The way things end up, I’m not sure the future could cope with any more little Crichton’s running around… there’s at least three as it is.

From a vidding point of view, this is a very useful episode. And not only because it has old Aeryn and John being adorable.

The vines in Aeryn’s ship, the lights of the reverse starburst and the grains from the locket at the end: I’ve used all of them as overlays. The grains are particularly good for a sparkle effect if you slow them down.

Oh, and HAIR OBSESSION ALERT! After Crichton kisses Aeryn goodbye in the casket, he plays with her hair. Seriously, I’m coming to the conclusion that Ben Browder is deliberately doing it. It happens too often not to be. Like it’s a comfort thing for Crichton or something…

[Gatefan1976]

Cool!

It's about half hour from my house

[Falcon Horus]

It's about half hour from my house

Okay, that's also cool.

I live in a city that's been in existence since the 9th century AD -- also apparently the beer capital of Belgium.

****

The Locket

A timey-wimey episode and STARK!!!

I'm not averse to timey-wimey episodes, and this one is quite nice. Except perhaps that I would have liked to see some of it from Aeryn's POV in the first few minutes of the episode. Although, that's optional and perhaps they did think about doing it that way, but it's okay like it is.

Stark is back. I squee'd when he was suddenly there. Okay, so the how he got there is rather lame but I don't care. Stark is back and I love him.

It's a fairly simple story. Moya flies into some space mist, gets stuck. Time moves differently outside the mist because inside the mist you're outside of time. Stark and Zhaan together - !hearts!
Aeryn went out investigating and when she returns, only one solar day has passed for Moya but many decades for her. She returns, John goes after her and gets stuck. They both age some more. Aeryn dies -- that was heartbreaking.

Zhaan and Stark figure it out, and they have to reverse starburst. Even if Moya didn't enter the mist entirely, from any of the wideshots it sure does look that way, but I get that the only way back is to take the exact same route out as they did in. The simplest solution in this case, at which point we start at the actual beginning of the episode, right when Aeryn is about to leave and investigate the mist with her little plant.

[jelgate]

Won’t Get Fooled Again

Now this, this is my absolute favourite episode.

I don't know about favorite but its there

Ooo, would you look at that: we open with a pseudo ‘previously on Farscape’. Those are rare. Not that it’s going to help anyone much with this one…

We must have different versions. I didn't get a previously on Farscape, fake or real

…yes, there have been signs of the way things were heading for a while. But now the show finally takes the train all the way to crazy town, taking their lead character along with them.

Its more gradual than that. He is so crazy in this episode because he knows it isn't real. However when back in reality he is more sane

I like how Crichton doesn’t fall for it being Earth again. Not even for a second. They’ve done some nice visual references to Human Reaction too: John’s in the same white shirt, the green hospital room.

I think that is intentional so you can see how this episode is different from A Human Reaction. Besides being in John's mind they are completely different.

Crichton says ‘Betina’ has prettier hair: sure sign he’s delusional. My hair does that curly thing naturally… it’s a nightmare. You get the Shirley Temple/ hobbit look (cute when you’re four, not so great when your twenty nine), up until it hits rain and then you look like Brian May. As I live in Britain, this means I spend an hour, three times a week straightening it flat.

Or you know, it could be his love for Aeryn

And the arrival of Harvey proper! I love Harvey. Particularly ‘cause he’s a baddie who job is to help the hero out and basically keep him alive.

It will be real fun later on when Harvey is more of an ally than an antagonist. Its fun watching John fight the fact that Harvey is trying to help

This being my favourite episode, it also contains my favourite scene: John’s dead mother showing up and then asking him to stay with her this time. It is just brutal. And they really don’t back away from how cruel it is.

I think that is one of the more emotional scenes of the episode. Most of the episodes is more for laughs and jokes

Ben Browder is awesome in the whole thing. But that bit in particular when Crichton’s literally on the floor begging his ‘mother’ to stop just kills me every time.

Anyone who has lost a loved one would do anything to see them again. I know that's how I feel about my grandparents. I imagine its even worse for parents

Crichton’s mum and her death really is a weak spot for him isn’t it? And one that he never talks about. Not with Aeryn. Not with anyone. For a guy that never stops going on about his emotions and relentlessly encourages others to talk about theirs that’s…interesting.

We all have our secrets and areas that are hard to talk about.

‘Hush little baby, don’t say a word’ is a nice choice for Mama Crichton’s music cue. It’s a creepy lullaby given Crichton’s being interrogated and needs to keep his mouth shut. I really like it when they use ‘earth’ songs in the score, but they don’t do it very frequently.

Its supposed be freaky given how freaked out John is from seeing his dead mother

The best one I think is the use of Loch Lomond (it’s somewhere in Season 4). Crichton’s standing on this alien world in his black leather with a gun. He looks so harsh and not human. And suddenly he sings a line, and the score picks it up. The clash of the two really drives home how much he’s had to leave behind.

I am drawing a complete blank on that one.

ping ahead, so I'll stop. But, anyway my point was that I do like the effect putting earth music has in such an alien setting and I wish they did it more often.

I think legal gets involved. It takes money to use someone elses song

From a vidding point of view, Wont Get Fooled Again has a lot of great shots. If you want footage of John in front of a space shuttle/clearly at NASA, I think this is your only option. The disco scene has moving colour shots of pretty much everyone. And the metallic filter they use for the real world at the end is really distinctive.

Their is also a weird band

Won't Get Fooled Again

Blue, excellent review! And I'm with you... I loved this ep. It's an excellent way to show off everyone's exceptional range of acting abilities. Plus this is where, as Blue mentions, the story...and as John himself said it in the actual ep....it literally goes off the rails. I love how they can actually mix bizarre, funny, creepy, dramatic, sensual and just down right horrifying all in one ep and make it come together and make sense. I think they did such an excellent job directing and creating a way for the whole cast to play a very important part.

Agreed

This also is a critical ep as it sets up some of the really important Story elements:

The Neural Chip Gets a Name - Harvey and the whole Scorpy Clone plot element is revealed and we are shown as the audience the reason why John couldn't kill Scorpy in the Princess arc. At the time that left the audience scratching their heads....now we get the answer. I think that is also another really brilliant story telling device the Farscape writing team uses to hold back little things like that (instead of tying up every little detail by the end of each ep) they are willing to leave some things unsolved so that they may revisit them as a revelation later.

Just be glad Farscape aired before the Internet became a big deal. People would be whining that not all the questions were answered and calling it sloppy writing. That happened all the time here for Stargate. Gave me a headache.

Again another reason Farscape was ahead of alot of the other major TV series being aired at this time. ......So we have the establishment of "Harvey" ...notice how John debated on what name to use. He settles on Harvey. That shows his subconscious is now owning him as if he is a part of him or a "pet" and somewhat accepting him. This shows that unique sort of love/hate bond the two share. John's emotional mind realizes at some level that even though it's a bad thing to have Harvey in there, it's more or less going to keep him from dying so it's a protective device in a sense. His rational mind doesn't like it one bit though, so the writing team has to deal with that. So, by the end we see Scorpy making him forget all about it. I think that again was a nice way to allow John's crazy to be somewhat controlled so we aren't tuning in each week to watch John the Psychopath. Also, it again cloaks the chip from John's conscience mind so we can see him continue to sort of grapple with what's happening to his mind and questioning whether he's losing it or what. So it reintroduces the mystery of it...at least to John.

As always I think you are just reading into it as something that is not there for a name. Just a culture reference by the writers. I say the forgetting Harvey is just to show further detoriation of his sanity until the chip is removed. I look how crazy he is now and how different it is come the finale.

John's Humanity = His Weakness - As Blue mentioned my favorite scene was the one with his dying mother. That makes me cry every time I watch and Browder just nailed it perfectly. I don't think he could've done more than one take on that one because he literally poured his soul into that scene. I think through all this, we find that truly John's undoing is through the use of his humanity, his sense of guilt whether it was the fact that he didn't attend to his dying mother's death bed, to his sexual fantasies he's had of many of the crew....possibly including D'Argo. LOL His rage, guilt and frustrations in dealing with Crais and finally his complete loathing yet need to conquer Scorpy were all seen as weaknesses that were exploited. All these emotions and psychological issues that people tend to wall off so that no one (sometimes not even our conscience mind) can deal with them out in the open, these are all tapped into in order to crack John wide open. Poor John, he was really exposed in so many ways in this.

Oh sure you get to cry but mock me when I do. That my friend is hypocrisy I don't see it so much as guilt. The lose of any loved one is going to make you react emotionally similar to John. I know its not a shipping scene but I'm going to need my barf bucket for the sexual feelings against D'Argo. As the reality continues their is no meaning just to show the randomness as John's mind is breaking down and the Scarran is winning.

Moya = John's New Normal This is such an interesting turn now....all of season one and even into s2, all John wants to do is get back to Earth. It's all about Earth and returning to his old life his "normal". Now this episode sort of turns that back around to John wanting to get back on Moya....and establishes this and the "ship full of aliens" Is his new normal.

Its John realizing this isn't real. Of course he wants to return to Earth but that is not possible at the moment. If he can break the Scarran's hold, at least he could return to his friends
To Be Continued

[jelgate]

He in so many ways has accepted that returning to Earth is no longer viable and he's made Moya his new home and the crew his new family and friends. This is distinctive because the underlying plot of the show now shifts from John wanting to seek to return to Earth and pine after his Earthly family to now dealing with Scorpy and the Worm Hole tech tucked away in his head. This formal shift in the series plot I think really drives it further into the dark side as we see John slowly losing more and more of his innocent Earthly humanity and taking on this dark almost ruthless "alien-like" almost "peacekeeper-like" character. This was highlighted when his mother first came into the room and was appearing to comfort him and made comment that he's lost so much....that innocence....that he's become calloused and has killed. This was an affirmation that our Sweet innocent astronaut Home town American boy is pretty much dead and now we have a new and improved Ruff and Tuff Outlaw and Space Cowboy. I think this marks a very important turning point for John's character.

Both can be true. He never stop trying to get home. That is why he is so obsessed with wormholes so he can get home

Scorpy = John's Nemesis This relationship by far takes on such a great role for the remainder of the series. Jel wants to complain that the John/Aeryn romance trumps screen time and plot, but all that aside..it's the Scorpy/John Frenemy/Bromance that occupies the majority of plot as well.

Actually I will agree that the John and Harvey mind battles take up a fair amount of space. Not as much as John and Aeryn but still quite a bit

I think it could actually be split. Again accolades to the writing team for creating such a great adversary as Scorpy that you love to hate him or hate to love him....whatever the case is....John needs him and really John builds such a rapport with him only because he's on a ruthless ride to vanquish him. But lets face it...as many nemesis' turn out to be a dark side of our own psyche so by killing them off in a sense we are killing a part of ourselves. This is I think where they were trying to go with this. It's no doubt though that Scorpy is a real villian in our story, but I think the Harvey Clone really does take on that bad part of John that sets up the dichotomy we all struggle with ...our inner demon ...something that slowly drives us mad if we allow it to and have to constantly work to suppress or root out when it's trying to control us. I think you could probably run a whole psych class (Freud vs Jung) and the like with the material you get from this show.

Scorpy has always been after the wormhole tech. First as a villian and then more as an ally (S4) when he can no longer pursue him. Its all about wormholes. They share a bond in their obsession for it. I would give you that analysis for Harvery now but I think it falls apart in S3 when Harvery is not so much an enemy

I loved so many bits in this episode, everything from the cool headed Pychologist Zhaan, to the cigar smoking tycoon Rygel, to Disco Chi, Doctor Aeryn (with her hair references) I think Blue is right....John does become obsessed with her hair....haha...and notice her hair changes in the ep so much and once even with the huge rollers. LOL I think this shows that John uses her hair as almost a sort of security blanket. I know that's weird but it's soft and smells nice and it just gives him a good feeling. He holds onto this when he's out of his element. Maybe it gives him a familiar feel of old Earth, his mother? A soft blanket he had as a child? Who knows but he definitely has a thing for Aeryn's hair. Yes jel I hope you had your barf bucket handy...that one snuck up on you didn't it? LOL

Don't even need it. I honestly didn't even think about hair but you may have a point. The different roles of the characters is probably how John see the characters. Psychologists ZHaan because of how compassionate of others and CEO Rygel because of his greed.

I could go on and on about the awesomeness of this ep....but I'll let jel talk about Crais in high heels now.

I thought you did go on. This is one of your more rambly posts I like this episode for its crazy random humor. Nothing is more crazy than Cop Crais.

Won't Get Fooled Again

Not quite sure what to think of this episode -- not sure I like it, not sure I dislike it. It's somewhere in between, I think.

Wasn't expecting that one. I thought everyone loved this one

I did like how all the characters get to play a role in this crazy subconscious world inside John's mind. Especially fond of Pilot's bongo-beats.

I'm not sure how John subconsciously thought of Pilot as a drummer. Or Scorpy for that matter

D'Argo is high-larious. When he's coming onto John -- LOL -- D'Argo/John shippers must go crazy with that scene.

Their are John/D'Argo shippers? Have you seen my bucket?

It's the arrival of Harvey, but beyond that -- I have not much to say.

But Harvey is awesome

No, loved the appearance of all the characters in some form or another, but not a fan of the episode. A few bits also hit way too close to home so ... err... yeah, no. Next.

For me too. But sometime it helps to laugh after losing a loved one

It's easier to imitate me than to try Jel.

Depends how well you know the person. I could imitate you because I have known you for 9 years. I really need to get a life

Tastes differ, cause it doesn't even make the favorite list.
Too chaotic.

That is far. Bacon knows I have disliked episodes people think is popular. To draw a comparsion, you not liking this episode is like a person not liking Lost City from SG1.

Yep, I’m behind too. Even more so with the time difference… it’ll be Thursday here in a minute.

Work keeps asking me to come in. I've added 12 hours I wasn't scheduled for. Maybe I should say no.

The Locket

A melancholic episode this one. As Jel mentioned, it’s not big on the science. But they are kind of blatant about it. It’s like the writer has decided they could do it all technical and proper-like but they are more interested in John and Aeryn living out a life together.

You know by now I am not the biggest John/Aeryn fan. We have so many episodes devoted to those two that it would have been nice to explore the time aspect and this strange society. Do we need to really explore their feelings again

I can go with that approach actually. This episode made me cry quite a few times the first time I watched it. And I agree Jel, old John and Aeryn are totally believable as the people their younger versions grow into. The make up’s not bad either.

I don't know about cry but watching Aeryn die in the transport pod is quite sad. I do agree on sad

I adore Aeryn’s line: ‘Look at you. I’d forgotten how beautiful you were. You’re so young’. The sentiment it expresses is not the type of line female characters get a lot in film/tv. Claudia Black nails the delivery. I just love it.

I think its a common reaction to someone who has been separated from a friend for decades

The music is nice too. Strange, sad and slow with a sort of ‘ticking’ quality to it.

Agreed

Old Crichton’s got a(nother) new obsession here: getting back to his old Moya life. Add that to the Aeryn/ Earth/Farscape project/wormholes list. Fixating on something and using it to drive himself does seem to be integral part of the character.

I don't think he likes to stay still. A quiet life like this planet is not for John.

Here’s a question:

Spoiler:

could Ennix be John’s granddaughter too? The way peacekeeper pregnancy is explained in season 4 (which I’m still a bit fuzzy on to be honest) the father of her children could be anyone Aeryn’s slept with in the past seven years?

The way things end up, I’m not sure the future could cope with any more little Crichton’s running around… there’s at least three as it is.

Technically yes but that goes against the theme that when Aeryn got stuck there she had moved on.

From a vidding point of view, this is a very useful episode. And not only because it has old Aeryn and John being adorable.

Because it has our actors as old?
I wonder what Zhaan and D'Argo would look like old?

The vines in Aeryn’s ship, the lights of the reverse starburst and the grains from the locket at the end: I’ve used all of them as overlays. The grains are particularly good for a sparkle effect if you slow them down.

-I really like the old transport pod. Wasn't really impressed with reverse starburst to be honest

Oh, and HAIR OBSESSION ALERT! After Crichton kisses Aeryn goodbye in the casket, he plays with her hair. Seriously, I’m coming to the conclusion that Ben Browder is deliberately doing it. It happens too often not to be. Like it’s a comfort thing for Crichton or something…

I can see as a tender way of saying goodbye. Maybe you and SQ need to start a thread about hair

The Locket

A timey-wimey episode and STARK!!!

If you haven't figured out SQ's favorite character by now its kind of obvious.

I'm not averse to timey-wimey episodes, and this one is quite nice. Except perhaps that I would have liked to see some of it from Aeryn's POV in the first few minutes of the episode. Although, that's optional and perhaps they did think about doing it that way, but it's okay like it is.

If you do it that way you would have to rewrite the first 1/3 of the episode as you lose the mystery aspect of what happened to Aeryn.

Stark is back. I squee'd when he was suddenly there. Okay, so the how he got there is rather lame but I don't care. Stark is back and I love him.

I never bought that as it doesn't explain how he escaped detection by the command carrier

It's a fairly simple story. Moya flies into some space mist, gets stuck. Time moves differently outside the mist because inside the mist you're outside of time. Stark and Zhaan together - !hearts!
Aeryn went out investigating and when she returns, only one solar day has passed for Moya but many decades for her. She returns, John goes after her and gets stuck. They both age some more. Aeryn dies -- that was heartbreaking.

Its simple. As discussed they gloss over the time aspects so they cover more of the John/Aeryn aging on the planet

Zhaan and Stark figure it out, and they have to reverse starburst. Even if Moya didn't enter the mist entirely, from any of the wideshots it sure does look that way, but I get that the only way back is to take the exact same route out as they did in. The simplest solution in this case, at which point we start at the actual beginning of the episode, right when Aeryn is about to leave and investigate the mist with her little plant.

I kind of rolled my eyes at that one as it seemed they had written themselves into a corner and needed a fast way to end the episode

[Bluemeany]

I can see as a tender way of saying goodbye. Maybe you and SQ need to start a thread about hair

Yeah, what have you done with SQ btw?

I need someone to validate my insane hair related theories.