Prepare for Starburst: A Farscape Rewatch Thread

[Bluemeany]

Thanks for posting. I agree. But I wonder why on the blu Ray it's included and not a deleted scene?

Oh right, I see what you mean. Sorry, that's my bad wording. It's not in the Blu-ray actual episodes. It's under the 'deleted scenes'...although they tag it on to about a minute of the bit of the 'as aired' scene to let you know where it was supposed to go.

[squirrely1]

Yeah and that's ok...I just appreciate you pointing it out and posting it up! THANKS AGAIN! After a 2nd watch I really do think it makes Aeryn look too weak and needy...so I think they made a wise choice in cutting it. IMO. I mean at one point I don't think John knew what to say there...he was so flummoxed at how desperate she sounded. LOL

[Bluemeany]

Yeah and that's ok...I just appreciate you pointing it out and posting it up! THANKS AGAIN! After a 2nd watch I really do think it makes Aeryn look too weak and needy...so I think they made a wise choice in cutting it. IMO. I mean at one point I don't think John knew what to say there...he was so flummoxed at how desperate she sounded. LOL

Yeah... the neediness isn't helped by Crichton 'shhshhing' her either. Even if it's done in a sympathetic way, it does make her look like a child.

On paper, I think it probably read okay. Aeryn can be a strong, capabable woman who's just got a teensy too much on her plate right now and is admitting this to John.


But yeah, when they actually played it, it just doesn't quite work. Which is a shame, because there's some nice relationship stuff there...

Edit: actually, the more I watch it, the more I think it's Crichton's lines and reaction that throw the scene off.

I'm viewing how Aeryn is acting all the way through this episode as like being a mother who has 'lost the baby'. I think that's what is really eating her up. She was meant to look after Talyn and she couldn't. Crichton's dialogue and reaction should be as if he's talking to a woman who's had a miscarriage. But it's not... he just thinks she has too much to juggle. He ( or I think rather the script) hasn't totally gotten what up with her...

[squirrely1]

Yeah... the neediness isn't helped by Crichton 'shhshhing' her either. Even if it's done in a sympathetic way, it does make her look like a child.

On paper, I think it probably read okay. Aeryn can be a strong, capabable woman who's just got a teensy too much on her plate right now and is admitting this to John.


But yeah, when they actually played it, it just doesn't quite work. Which is a shame, because there's some nice relationship stuff there...

Edit: actually, the more I watch it, the more I think it's Crichton's lines and reaction that throw the scene off.

I'm viewing how Aeryn is acting all the way through this episode as like being a mother who has 'lost the baby'. I think that's what is really eating her up. She was meant to look after Talyn and she couldn't. Crichton's dialogue and reaction should be as if he's talking to a woman who's had a miscarriage. But it's not... he just thinks she has too much to juggle. He ( or I think rather the script) hasn't totally gotten what up with her...

Totally agree and I think you are onto something there. Guys please don't take this wrong...but It's sometimes hard for males to really relate to "losing a child" not that they don't mourn, but it's a bit different....and in this case it's not her real baby but darn close as she was the first to really bond with Talyn and they share that PK past and all that. So I think this was really devastating for her and she almost acts hysterical in that part...which is probably why they cut it. John's shushing was probably well meaning because he was just trying to help in his own way...by telling her not to worry but she needed empathy there and a good hug and cry.....which the timing just wasn't right for that.

[jelgate]

[B]

Vistis Mortis

[/B]
This is one of my favorite episodes. Its a D'Argo episode and no unnecessary John/Aeryn. shipping. Okay I guess you can make the argument this is the start of D'Argo/Chiana when she says she actually likes D'Argo. I have to agree with Chiana when Aeryn orders her to wash her clothes. She is not Aeryn's maid and I would have done the same if someone demanded to wash the clothes But I'm rambling again. At least its not as bad as SQ's rambling. I love this episode because its about D'Argo. Not only do we get to explore some of his past, I think infinitely more we explore his character. Lets cut the dren. The Orician falling in love with D'Argo and vice versa is unrealistic. I admit that. I think it was to further show D'Argo's loneliness His is lonely and desperate for companionship that when he see a Luxan, its to much to resist. His desire to be with his people is why D'Argo agreed to go along with this death ritual in the first place. Taking a break for a second, John inability to understand D'Argo's wishes annoyed the frell out of me. Yes their is a small risk but humans take risks for our loved ones all the time. Its no different than your sibling going under the knife so you may live. I found Cricheton's inability to understand or respect D'Argo's position a little disturbing and out of character. Moving on, what the Orician see in D'Argo is actually Moya. Because lets remember their always has to be consequences of our good deeds in science fiction. Their are some nice comedic moments of us on damaged Moya . My favorite is when they use Rygel's fat ass to seal up a hull breech. Watching Moya and Pilot deteriorate due to old age does produce some nice dramatic moments like how we learn the age of Pilot and part of his motivation of bonding to a Leviathian. But Aeryn said it best, in that we all know its too much of a coincidence that Moya gets damanged as soon as she gets younger. But doesn't it seem she is a little out of character in shooting first. We know the Orician didn't mean harm and she was trying her best to help. The final two scenes are my favorite. I love the part where the Luxans argue that Moya is not just a ship and that she deserves to live just like everyone else. It speaks to me how much he would give up what he desires most if it is not honorable. I'm not sure if I would do the same. And then their is John and D'Argo scene where John says it doesn't matter what her intentions where, what the Orican is doing to Moya is still murder. John is not wrong but still you can see how much it hurts D'Argo to do what he must to save Moya. This episode is really one that hurts D"Argo and I love it because it really shows his character. Goodbye Nooranti. See you in S4

[jelgate]

Mind the Baby

Ok yeah like jel pointed out I felt this ep was a little disjointed or off. Not that it wasn't good, just seemed sort of ho hum for a season opener. But there were some great shippy parts....*giggles* yeah I promised jel I wouldn't gush to much, so where to begin?

Its okay. I didn't really believe you about skipping shipping scenes

D'Argo's New Look - I actually like his new look. I think this again is a nice way to show that our characters are aging and getting banged up and stuff. It always bugged me when you watch a series on TV in which the main characters appearances never really change all that much. Or they get in an awful fight and they don't even have a scratch on the next episode. This to me really helps with the believe-ability and continuity that these guys are going to age and get bumps along the way. As to jel's comment about D's sunburn....*shrugs* I didn't hear them say that is what happened..maybe I missed it (I was a tad distracted while watching) but even if that is the reason why he's darker in the face now so be it... it works for me. I think it's an improvement to show an older and wiser D'argo.

That's my bad. It was a behind the scenes mention that the writers came for why D'Argo has the golden brown look and no longer the tan look we saw in S1. I agree with you about us seeing the bruises and trauma our heroes go through. Farscape is pretty good at this, but I just didn't by the being so close to the sun reason. Why isn't John black. If D'Argo is brown, then John should have worse burns

John's Jokes - Did anyone else find John's quips and silly responses a tad irritating? I mean maybe this is his crazy coming out ...a sort of I don't care and I'm just going to joke about it? Or maybe they had him be sort of carefree and kidding to show that stark contrast of how deadly serious he got when the whole Crais situation came to light and he realized that Aeryn had entered into a deal with him. Unlike jel up there I don't really consider what Aeryn did a betrayal, I see it as a means to an end. She knew she would've never been able to save the boys if she hadn't struck a deal with him. It seems thought that as soon as they got safely aboard the asteroid she should've told them without having John drag it out of her, as I think they paid for allowing Crais hang around Talyn a bit too long as Talyn soon bonded with Crais and preferred him over Aeryn. I do love the part where they said goodbye, and how bent out of shape John became when Aeryn "chose" to go with Crais....I think that is where Crais forms his psycho idea that Aeryn came with him because she liked him and chose him over John....which later feeds his sort of obsession of Aeryn.

I kind of went with betrayal because that is how D'Argo and John felt. I kind of postulated (big word SQ) that she was stuck in a hard place because of how John and D'Argo's life were on the line. Shipping or no shipping she still considers them her friends. I think I said the same about this starts Crais' weird stalking arrangement. John's jokes are always out of place.

Which leads me to my next part...
Talyn's Choice -
As far as the story goes, I was disappointed at how the story played out...not that Talyn chose Crais right away over Aeryn, but that Aeryn came right back on Moya into John's lap....literally. Now dont' get me wrong I loved that shippery moment when they were sitting together and John is playing with her hair and they have a really sweet moment there, but honestly I felt like story wise it would've be better served to allow Aeryn to stay on Talyn with Crais just a little longer...maybe an ep or two.

I think I am going to be sick.
If memory recalls, Aeryn didn't have a choice. Talyn and Crais forced her off. She was leaving Talyn by choice or forces

I do like angst....and well it seems these writers don't want to put too much in the way of the Aeryn/John ship yet, so they seem to like to use the "goodbye/almost goodbye" angst story idea just a tad too much in order to tease us with angst, but not really deliver. If Aeryn is truly leaving let it be for a while. Although we know that does happen later... I think they get it that true angst needs to happen more than just for a few minutes for it to be effective....otherwise it just seems like a cheap plot device and you as the audience no longer believe they will truly set them apart for more than an ep. Furthermore, it would've been interesting to see how Aeryn would've responded to Crais and how they would've managed through it...we know this happens later and I don't want to go into too much spoilerage so I'll just leave it here and comment more on this at that later time.

Its clear you have devoted a lot of time to thinking about. Something I don't do. I'm more likely to think about John's madness or singular character journeys. I don't really care about angst. Moving on...

Crais is Creepy - I mean Scorpious is downright evil, but let's face it Crais is really creepy at this point. LOL I mean I like Crais' character, but he's sort of creeping me out in this ep. The way he's looking at Aeryn and getting into her personal space and then his crazy ripping his shirt off to have Talyn link up....did anyone else think that was almost sexual in nature And not in a good way... Again it all happened so fast it seems a little rushed and psychotic...like they were trying to rush this episode for some odd reason. That is the only way I can describe it.

This is where he starts his stalker relationship where Aeryn has -100% feelings for Crais. I don't think their is anything sexual about the hand of friendship, but then again I am not obsessed with sex like you are They did rush the episode. Almost like a second pilot. After all we know the story changes dramatically from now on

Zhaan got the can - I mean really Zhaan? You are gonna choose now to pursue the Delvian Seek? Honestly?? I think it was an escape mechanism for her. She was really depressed and hurting when she thought she lost all three of her friends and I think that was the only way she could cope with it. She was so into denial of the real world that even with John showed up she didn't see him as real. I do like that it was Aeryn to kick her in the arse and bring her back to reality. So this didn't really bother me so much because let's face it, she didn't have much to do in the story so I guess they writers chose that path for her in order to give her something to do in the story.

The Zhaan story really suffers from the fact that they changed the premiere around. The lawyer episode in a few weeks was supposed to be first was a Zhaan heavy episode. That makes her Seek story confusing in this episode. We are really only getting half of what is going

Rygel's Reaction - Loved how Rygel got all choked up at seeing his friends again. I think what was missing from this episode in really looking at it and in retrospect and what is off about it is the fact the team was not apart long enough for everyone to have such severe reactions for having the band back together again on Moya. I think to jel's point up there...the story seemed rushed to get them all back on Moya again, and I agree. The story seemed disorganized and disjointed. I would've rather them focus on just how Aeryn saved the boys and her haggling with Crais for his help...we didn't get to see that and it was obvious a lot of time had passed but since we didn't see it....it was only an episode ago that everyone was together so not enough screen time had passed IMO to make the reunion back on Moya truly resonate appropriately.
All in all it was a good ep, but not one of the most solid in terms of story telling.

Got to love those Introns That is common with TV in how we only see a small time apart because you know the main cast has to be together. Their wasn't a clear story. Just a reason to find a use for Talyn and have Scorpy chase us
To Be Continued

[jelgate]

Mind the Baby

Wow, start of season two already.

Still waiting for Bone To Be Wild

And man, they just jump right back into it don’t they? No explaining, no recaps, no ‘previously on Farscape’. That’s a brave choice for original broadcast.

More than anything its to speak to the quietness of the season finale

Even for the faithful season-one viewer, it would still have been a gap of a year. Never mind the poor sod tuning in for the first time: the ‘My name is John Crichton, I got shot through a wormhole’ intro isn’t really going to be helping them figure out the backstory to this episode.

A month and half separates S1 and S2 of Farscape

To agree with what SQ said, I think Crichton is noticeably more ‘on the edge’ mentally. The annoying jokes are a part of that. As is the way he threatens Crais; it’s more unhinged than in the past. He even looks scary when arrives back on Moya (up until the point Chiana leap-hugs him).

Its the shock. He almost died in space and then found out the girl he loves betrayed him. He was tortured a few weeks ago. That kind of abuse would make most people a prey to their emotions

It’s subtle, but I think it’s already there. Crichton is not quite in total control (Hey, kind of like Talyn? Maybe that’s meant to be a mirroring thing?).

Its not. If you do some research, you'll find out the writers didn't come up with the neural clone idea until after Crackers Don't Matter

My favourite scene is the one where Zahn is about to bliss off into oblivion and Aeryn calls her out on it. I really like that. It shows that for all her high ideals, Zahn can be insensitive to the suffering of others . Aeryn is the better person because she’s actually trying to help people, rather than just pray for them.

Farscape if nothing else has flawed characters. With the exception of Rygel, the heroes are all good people but they have their weakness. Zhaan cares about others more than anyone but even the most selfless can be selfish

From an editing pov: As SQ mentioned, fair amount of shipping stuff this one. Starting with the “oh you mean friend close” and ending with them sat together at the end. Aeryn seems to be a little more emotionally ‘thawed’ than in season one.

Back to the barf bucket. I like seeing Talyn starburst for the first time

Although interestingly, the blu-rays have an extended version of the scene where Crichton says ‘ I won’t let you go with Crais’. Where it ends in the episode, Aeryn then turns back to Crichton and says that she tried to fix everything but it’s all screwed up. I’ve gifed it here if you want to to take a look: http://thebluemeany.tumblr.com/post/...mind-the-baby.

It makes Aeryn going on Talyn if not a joint decision, then at least a more ‘Crichton approved’ choice. He literally takes her hand and leads her toward the baby Levithan at the end of it.

A deleted scene? They happen. It doesn't really sound that relevant to the show so I can see why it got deleted.
John is one who usually supports his friends. We see so many times how much he risks for his friends.

Which brings me on to the hand scene. Very pretty shot-wise Farscape has a thing about the symbolism of human hands/ handprints. It really comes out in Season 4, in the ‘What was lost’ episodes. A way of showing that Sebaceans and Humans are related.

We will not talk about their obsession with eyeballs. WE WONT DISCUSS

WOW Blue I loved the additional blu Ray scene you posted the gifs of. You can't post up that whole scene on like you tube could you? LOL I would love to see the whole scene.

I wonder why they only included that on the Blu Ray edition? I'll check I have the Ultimate Collection DVD set so maybe it's in my deleted scenes? That's weird that they clipped that out on the DVD version.

How dare they edit out some of the shippy stuff

They official reason is they can put more data on a blu ray compared to a DVD. That's a pile dren of course. They keep stuff to motivate die hard fans to buy blu ray instead of DVD. Do you remember when SG1 released their complete series DVD collection. Many fans already own the seasons so MGM put all this extra bonus features to get you to buy the new DVDs. Its the same with blu ray. Its all a marketing stragety.

Don't take this the wrong way but the average viewing isn't going to care. Episode go over time all the time. The scene isn't really relevant to the story

Sure thing. Here we go:

It's only 45 seconds though.

It's so short that I don't think it can be a cut for timing. I think it must be that it takes the relationship or the characters further than the overall series wanted them to be at that point...

[/QUOTE] I don't think so. 45 seconds might not seem like a lot but the scenes with a lot of time is usually relevant to the story. Trimming those small scenes adds up to get an episode at time. Under time can be just as bad as over

Thanks for posting. I agree. But I wonder why on the blu Ray it's included and not a deleted scene?

See above

Yeah and that's ok...I just appreciate you pointing it out and posting it up! THANKS AGAIN! After a 2nd watch I really do think it makes Aeryn look too weak and needy...so I think they made a wise choice in cutting it. IMO. I mean at one point I don't think John knew what to say there...he was so flummoxed at how desperate she sounded. LOL

I see it as more guilty then needy. She feels responsible for how we have gotten here in regards to Talyn. Aeryn is trying her best to do what is right to fix everything and it overwhelms her. Maybe she is weak but I don't think that is bad. We are all weak sometimes. She is weak because she is doubting herself. Pretty consistent with Aeryn as she does doubt herself a lot as she struggles with discovering emotions

Yeah... the neediness isn't helped by Crichton 'shhshhing' her either. Even if it's done in a sympathetic way, it does make her look like a child.

In some ways she is a child since she was born in a dictator military society.

On paper, I think it probably read okay. Aeryn can be a strong, capabable woman who's just got a teensy too much on her plate right now and is admitting this to John.


But yeah, when they actually played it, it just doesn't quite work. Which is a shame, because there's some nice relationship stuff there...

I actually think it works. Go on SQ. I'm ready

Edit: actually, the more I watch it, the more I think it's Crichton's lines and reaction that throw the scene off.

I like John in that he goes to his defensive mechanism of being compassionate and caring. When he is clueless (which happens a lot) he goes back to supporting his friends no matter what they do. He supported Rygel after the finale

I'm viewing how Aeryn is acting all the way through this episode as like being a mother who has 'lost the baby'. I think that's what is really eating her up. She was meant to look after Talyn and she couldn't. Crichton's dialogue and reaction should be as if he's talking to a woman who's had a miscarriage. But it's not... he just thinks she has too much to juggle. He ( or I think rather the script) hasn't totally gotten what up with her...

I'd settle more on an aunt. That's the relationship I see Aeryn and Talyn have. Aeryn ( and everyone else) care for Moya so by extension they care for Talyn. Its not the same as the parent-child bond but its still a caring love. After all John said in the S1 finale that they risked everything for Talyn because how much they care about Moya, I think you could still put that in the same context. If you failed a close friend who had ac child, it would eat you up and its only natural that the person who loves you romatically would do their best to help you feel better

Totally agree and I think you are onto something there. Guys please don't take this wrong...but It's sometimes hard for males to really relate to "losing a child" not that they don't mourn, but it's a bit different....and in this case it's not her real baby but darn close as she was the first to really bond with Talyn and they share that PK past and all that. So I think this was really devastating for her and she almost acts hysterical in that part...which is probably why they cut it. John's shushing was probably well meaning because he was just trying to help in his own way...by telling her not to worry but she needed empathy there and a good hug and cry.....which the timing just wasn't right for that.

My offense depends on how you want to justify that. Are you claiming that a mother cares more deeply than the father? Or you talking about the hormone shock that comes from the lose of an unborn child? I will find the first offensive but not the second. It was cut most likely because its not really necessary. Its a great scene but we already know how Aeryn feels about what she did based on her dialogue in the minning facility.

[squirrely1]

Vitas Mortis
I can sum up this review with one picture....

Spoiler:

Finally D'Argo gets some....and we get to see his O face. LOL

Poor guy was really lonely. I am with jel in that D'Argo was so starved for companionship that he was more or less drawn into this arrangement by his Mivonks but which initially bound him by his cultural honor. It was sort of sad to see him so vulnerable and while I understand it on the one hand since he was so lonely and starved for intimacy the other hand showed just how weak this made him that he was almost blind to what was happening.

I have to also agree with jel that John's insensitivity to the whole process was very irritating. And I again blame our new Crazy John for this. S1 John would've never acted like this. This shows you our sort of childish/selfish and somewhat arrogant John in that regardless of what was going in his friend was at risk. HIS friend. Again John somehow managed to make it all about him. So while jel wants to call this a D'Argo ep...and I'll let him go on and think that....I say it's actually a John ep in disguise, since we got alot of new character info on Crichton with respect to how he is reacting to the whole situation. It's very interesting character moments for John. So rather than John realize this was a sacred ritual that needed to be respected and his friend needed some space, he sort of had a tantrum instead. Notice how when he realized that D'Argo was scoring in the bedroom...he finally GOT IT. LOL He actually realized....oh gee....3 in the bedroom really doesn't work. But John actually continues to do that to D'Argo over and over again....his respect for personal boundaries really did go out with Season 1.

Which leads me to how everyone on Moya reacts to all this. Since jel already stole my thunder on pointing out the hilarity of Rygel plugging the hole with his arse....notice the uncanny resemblance that scene has to Whinnie the Pooh....LOL You gotta love it.

As for Aeryn's so willingness to shoot at the Orican I agree...it seemed a tad trigger happy even for warrior Aeryn. But lets not forget in our fervor for recognizing John's slow decent into madness that Aeryn here is going a tad crazy all on her own as well. Remember she has just lost the baby and she's still suffering from that guilt and anguish. I think this could account for her unwillingness to "lose another ship" she is going to save Moya or bust!

Again I'll agree with Jel on Aeryn's somewhat arrogant demands as well on having Chi do all the laundry. I didn't really like to see that side of Aeryn and that was hard to watch...but I think it speaks to her PK past and just how arrogant they tend to be and some of that is obviously still with her. Gotta love the whole idea of doing laundry and just the addressing of the mundane tasks of life again give this show so much realism and what makes it believable. I love that they did that.

I don't have really anything more to add except for I have to show a little montage of all the glorious leather in this ep And John's new spikey hair Spoiled for size.

Spoiler:

The Crazy John \/

[Bluemeany]

A month and half separates S1 and S2 of Farscape

Ah, good point. See I made the mistake of thinking of it as a British series again, with our ten month season gaps (if you’re lucky).

My offense depends on how you want to justify that. Are you claiming that a mother cares more deeply than the father? Or you talking about the hormone shock that comes from the lose of an unborn child? I will find the first offensive but not the second.

It’s kind of hard to explain, but it’s not that that the father mourns or cares for the baby any less.

It’s ‘cause it’s your body that lost it. Yes, it’s a joint responsibility of care with the father, but you were the one holding it at the time something went wrong. The ‘fault’ is literally internal to you.

Similarly, biologically you’re meant to be able to do it. It’s meant to be natural. So it feels more of a failure than a misfortune, like you’ve let the father, the baby, rest of extended family, friends etc. down.

Which is why the way Aeryn is acting plays like that to me. She’s apologising for letting the others down in a situation that was in no way her fault.

Its not. If you do some research, you'll find out the writers didn't come up with the neural clone idea until after Crackers Don't Matter

I honestly don’t think the writers know he’s even going insane yet. I strongly suspect it’s just Ben Browder (and possibly the director) who’s decided Crichton is mental at this point… and Harvey comes later as they retroactively try and fill in the gaps.

Although, saying that, it does sound a bit risky in terms of the overall programme. Would they let an actor do that?

Still waiting for Bone To Be Wild

The dog ate it ( aka. oops, I forgot about that )

[Bluemeany]

I don't have really anything more to add except for I have to show a little montage of all the glorious leather in this ep And John's new spikey hair ]

Oh, you like the spikey hair? I’m not so keen on it myself. I guess they’re trying to make him look more badass. But it makes him look like he’s an aging member of one of those late 90’s boybands from Smash Hits magazine. Either that or Sonic the hedgehog.

I wonder where he got hair gel from in outer space. Knowing Farscape's love of icky bodily fluids, I hope he really checked the alien provider he bought that from...

Although the leather is a good change. I have no problem with the leather.

[Falcon Horus]

Mind The Baby

Gosh, I thought it was a boring start of the new season. I didn't feel wow'd or any sort of -whelm, not under and not over. I felt mostly meh - next.

We jump from mortal perril to John and D'Argo lounging (sort of) in an old mining facility, which Aeryn getting cosy with Crais. Conflicted Aeryn.
LOVED D'Argo knocking her out, and John teaching him rock-paper-scissor and then explaining why paper beats rock. And D'Argo playing the game on his own.

Zhaan's Delvian Seek seemed wholy out of place for the time, but perhaps this was her way of coping with the situation of losing people she came to consider as family.

Chiana and Rygel arguing, and talking about jumping ship. Pilot's reaction is quite priceless.
Rygel's powerful reaction to seeing the three lost souls again - priceless.

Crais aboard Talyn, manipulating the ship like crazy. He's not fit to be the boy's pilot, but when do kids ever listen. Canoodling with both Scorpius (to keep him from killing him most like) and Aeryn (does Crais have a crush on Aeryn?).

In the end they all loose...
* Aeryn looses Talyn's trust, and the pilot seat
* Moya looses Talyn but gains D'Argo, John & Aeryn
* Scorpius looses both Crais and John
* Crais looses his marbles

Anyway, next...

[jelgate]

Vitas Mortis
I can sum up this review with one picture....

Spoiler:

Finally D'Argo gets some....and we get to see his O face. LOL

I would sum it up where D'Argo yelling that Moya is not just a ship

Poor guy was really lonely. I am with jel in that D'Argo was so starved for companionship that he was more or less drawn into this arrangement by his Mivonks but which initially bound him by his cultural honor. It was sort of sad to see him so vulnerable and while I understand it on the one hand since he was so lonely and starved for intimacy the other hand showed just how weak this made him that he was almost blind to what was happening.

Who isn't driven by their sex drive? Great now she has corrupted me too. I know he isn't one but its human nature to be blinded by love and intimacy. We all strive for companionship and when we find it, we can be blind to the reality of the situation. You better than anyone should know that. Is it weak? Maybe, but it also expected

I have to also agree with jel that John's insensitivity to the whole process was very irritating. And I again blame our new Crazy John for this. S1 John would've never acted like this.

It has nothing to do with his progress towards insanity. They needed to create conflict for D'Argo's risk. Chosing John made little sense. Chiana not agreeing would have made more sense. She isn't culturally sensitive as John is

This shows you our sort of childish/selfish and somewhat arrogant John in that regardless of what was going in his friend was at risk. HIS friend. Again John somehow managed to make it all about him. So while jel wants to call this a D'Argo ep...and I'll let him go on and think that....I say it's actually a John ep in disguise, since we got alot of new character info on Crichton with respect to how he is reacting to the whole situation. It's very interesting character moments for John. So rather than John realize this was a sacred ritual that needed to be respected and his friend needed some space, he sort of had a tantrum instead. Notice how when he realized that D'Argo was scoring in the bedroom...he finally GOT IT. LOL He actually realized....oh gee....3 in the bedroom really doesn't work. But John actually continues to do that to D'Argo over and over again....his respect for personal boundaries really did go out with Season 1.

Come on. John did not even have that many scenes. All he contributes is out of character whinning. It was an D'Argo episode. It shed more light on his background, his character, and his code of ethics. We see how far he was willing to go for his friends. Being the lead, John had a few scenes but it was a D'Argo episode. Take off your shipping glasses. I will agree with the character analysis about John

Which leads me to how everyone on Moya reacts to all this. Since jel already stole my thunder on pointing out the hilarity of Rygel plugging the hole with his arse....notice the uncanny resemblance that scene has to Whinnie the Pooh....LOL You gotta love it.

You can find quite a few pop culture references that have people using their butt to plug up holes

As for Aeryn's so willingness to shoot at the Orican I agree...it seemed a tad trigger happy even for warrior Aeryn. But lets not forget in our fervor for recognizing John's slow decent into madness that Aeryn here is going a tad crazy all on her own as well. Remember she has just lost the baby and she's still suffering from that guilt and anguish. I think this could account for her unwillingness to "lose another ship" she is going to save Moya or bust!

I think we can argue that all the character go insane through Farscape. John is just the most extreme. I can see your point but I don't buy it. She would not just shoot a person first and ask questions later.

Again I'll agree with Jel on Aeryn's somewhat arrogant demands as well on having Chi do all the laundry. I didn't really like to see that side of Aeryn and that was hard to watch...but I think it speaks to her PK past and just how arrogant they tend to be and some of that is obviously still with her. Gotta love the whole idea of doing laundry and just the addressing of the mundane tasks of life again give this show so much realism and what makes it believable. I love that they did that.

You sure are agreeing with me a lot I don't think it was out of character. It was just annoying to me she bossed Chiana around. She is better that. Seeing how they do laundry was interesting. Now, where is the Moya toilet?

I don't have really anything more to add except for I have to show a little montage of all the glorious leather in this ep And John's new spikey hair Spoiled for size.

Spoiler:

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The Crazy John \/
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Are you familiar with the fandom term thunker?

Ah, good point. See I made the mistake of thinking of it as a British series again, with our ten month season gaps (if you’re lucky).

To be honest its quite uncommon. But this was the early days when SciFi channel was new so their was chaotic scheduling

It’s kind of hard to explain, but it’s not that that the father mourns or cares for the baby any less.

It’s ‘cause it’s your body that lost it. Yes, it’s a joint responsibility of care with the father, but you were the one holding it at the time something went wrong. The ‘fault’ is literally internal to you.

Similarly, biologically you’re meant to be able to do it. It’s meant to be natural. So it feels more of a failure than a misfortune, like you’ve let the father, the baby, rest of extended family, friends etc. down.

Okay so we are talking about an unborn child? Then yes I do understand. A lot of it is the hormones that just heighten your emotions even farther. Look at how many woman after a successful birth develop depression

Which is why the way Aeryn is acting plays like that to me. She’s apologising for letting the others down in a situation that was in no way her fault.

That's human nature. After a tragedy we all second guess what we could have done different even when we are blameless. Survivor's guilt

I honestly don’t think the writers know he’s even going insane yet. I strongly suspect it’s just Ben Browder (and possibly the director) who’s decided Crichton is mental at this point… and Harvey comes later as they retroactively try and fill in the gaps.

I think the first real instance of his insanity in Harvey is the Princess Trilogy. Other things are just concidence or to fit the episode. He is more violent but the galaxy is violent. That's kind of independent of what Scorpy did to John

Although, saying that, it does sound a bit risky in terms of the overall programme. Would they let an actor do that?

Depends on what the actor wants to do. They do allow some creative expression as long as it flows with the episode.

The dog ate it ( aka. oops, I forgot about that )

Well get to work. You also have to do Vistis Mortis before FH does it

Mind The Baby

Gosh, I thought it was a boring start of the new season. I didn't feel wow'd or any sort of -whelm, not under and not over. I felt mostly meh - next.

Meh does seem accurate. I think you could call it a second pilot. No not the puppet

We jump from mortal perril to John and D'Argo lounging (sort of) in an old mining facility, which Aeryn getting cosy with Crais. Conflicted Aeryn.

Did it bother you we never saw how Aeryn rescued John because it bothered me

LOVED D'Argo knocking her out, and John teaching him rock-paper-scissor and then explaining why paper beats rock. And D'Argo playing the game on his own.

I thought it funny how D'Argo argues the mechanics of the game. How can paper beat rock?

Zhaan's Delvian Seek seemed wholy out of place for the time, but perhaps this was her way of coping with the situation of losing people she came to consider as family.

It is out of place. She loses the most from that skipped episode

Chiana and Rygel arguing, and talking about jumping ship. Pilot's reaction is quite priceless.
Rygel's powerful reaction to seeing the three lost souls again - priceless.

Maybe his defection changed Rygel? He seemed to almost care about them. I love Pilot's grunting over them talking about leaving Moya. This is one of the few times he gets mad

Crais aboard Talyn, manipulating the ship like crazy. He's not fit to be the boy's pilot, but when do kids ever listen. Canoodling with both Scorpius (to keep him from killing him most like) and Aeryn (does Crais have a crush on Aeryn?).

Its to create conflict. Of course Crais isn't worthy but putting him on such a deadly ship allows for dangerous stories in the future. Crais likes to stalk Aeryn

In the end they all loose...
* Aeryn looses Talyn's trust, and the pilot seat
* Moya looses Talyn but gains D'Argo, John & Aeryn
* Scorpius looses both Crais and John
* Crais looses his marbles

Anyway, next...

Crais lost his marbles a long time ago, but he gained a ship. I don't think Chiana or D'Argo lost anything

[squirrely1]

@Blue - as for the whole losing the baby and mourning....spot on with why females tend to take on more guilt than males, which you addressed nicely that it's because we as the females have a duty to bring about this life growing inside us to fruition, and when something goes wrong we blame ourselves and if the child dies we really wig out so guys Mind the Baby! LOL

@Blue - with regard to John's spikey hair. It's not that I really like it.....just noticing his change..and yeah I think it was meant to make him more ruthless and badass combined with the leather, he has definitely dropped the charming, quaint southern boy routine.
I honestly thought the same about the hair gel. Haha.....Like minds

@Jel - see my comment to Blue up there about why females tend to mourn differently than males....it's probably more about the guilt than anything.
Also, I was just poking you getting you to go off about saying it's more of a John ep. cuz I knew you'd flip out Yes it's a D'Argo ep.... but all I'm saying is it was a good vignette of John's new character as he is really starting to lose it in some respects. It's almost a fear that if he loses his friends (the last shred of anything he knows in the universe) since he knows he's probably never going to make it back home.....if he loses his friends that would be losing his new family as well...and I think that terrifies him.
As far as D'Argo being weak....yes I understand that love and companionship will make you blind.... I get it...but it was just hard to see D'Argo be that way. Just like it was hard to watch Aeryn tell Chiana to do her laundry. By the writers showing our beloved character's weaknesses and flaws makes them more believable, since no creature is perfect and we can then identify with them.

regarding Aeryn shooting first...yes it was out of character for her....but again I'm sticking to the fact that she's not going to lose another ship. That is what she's thinking. It was a knee jerk reaction...I think she realized it as soon as it was heading straight for D'Argo. It was clear she wasn't thinking straight when she pulled the trigger.

And of course I've heard of the term thunker...that is where I started out here at GW in the Ben Browder Thunk Thread....did you forget that?

[jelgate]

@Blue - as for the whole losing the baby and mourning....spot on with why females tend to take on more guilt than males, which you addressed nicely that it's because we as the females have a duty to bring about this life growing inside us to fruition, and when something goes wrong we blame ourselves and if the child dies we really wig out so guys Mind the Baby! LOL

That's called sexism. I'm not blind. All the other reviewers here are female but I refuse to support this notion as it offends me greatly

@Blue - with regard to John's spikey hair. It's not that I really like it.....just noticing his change..and yeah I think it was meant to make him more ruthless and badass combined with the leather, he has definitely dropped the charming, quaint southern boy routine.
I honestly thought the same about the hair gel. Haha.....Like minds

Sometimes hair is just hair

@Jel - see my comment to Blue up there about why females tend to mourn differently than males....it's probably more about the guilt than anything.

I saw it and I reject it

Also, I was just poking you getting you to go off about saying it's more of a John ep. cuz I knew you'd flip out

I should of know better to be baited by you

Yes it's a D'Argo ep.... but all I'm saying is it was a good vignette of John's new character as he is really starting to lose it in some respects. It's almost a fear that if he loses his friends (the last shred of anything he knows in the universe) since he knows he's probably never going to make it back home.....if he loses his friends that would be losing his new family as well...and I think that terrifies him.

Too early for John to lose it. He hasn't started going insane yet. Any comparaison is concidence

As far as D'Argo being weak....yes I understand that love and companionship will make you blind.... I get it...but it was just hard to see D'Argo be that way. Just like it was hard to watch Aeryn tell Chiana to do her laundry. By the writers showing our beloved character's weaknesses and flaws makes them more believable, since no creature is perfect and we can then identify with them.

Different kinds of hard. to me. I loved seeing the flaws in D'Argo. Chiana was just sad because I disagreed heavily with Aeryn and don't like when she is shown as a jerk

regarding Aeryn shooting first...yes it was out of character for her....but again I'm sticking to the fact that she's not going to lose another ship. That is what she's thinking. It was a knee jerk reaction...I think she realized it as soon as it was heading straight for D'Argo. It was clear she wasn't thinking straight when she pulled the trigger.

If its out of character then in story explanations don't make sense. If its in character then you can rationalize the motivation. You are seeing things that are not there again in regards to Talyn and Moya.

And of course I've heard of the term thunker...that is where I started out here at GW in the Ben Browder Thunk Thread....did you forget that?

The Turkey must be stopped

[squirrely1]

@jel - I apologize that what Blue and I mention about the differences in the way that men and women grieve offends you. But please, look elsewhere and you'll see that this is not sexism. It is simply a DIFFERENCE in how we process the death of the child. That doesn't mean that your grief is dismissed or not good enough or not as deep as our grief...it's just different in how it manifests itself and how men react to it over women.

But don't take it from me.....google it....read it for yourself.

Here is a starting place:
https://sites.ualberta.ca/~jennyy/PDFs/16009547.pdf