Stargate vs. Farscape animosity

[BritAngie]

Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
two or three Scapers who think that we Gaters are blessed beyond measure to have two of their sainted actors,

This group of people seem to be in the majority and as this is an SG board it is really annoying me

*Counts fingers* ... um how can two or three be a majority- does that mean only 4 Farscape fans are on this board (I must be the forth? ) and that the three others are annoying? I think you mean the minority- and I'd suggest if they do annoy using the ignore function.

Me I love both shows -one's like milk chocolate and the other is Dark chocolate.. they taste different but me - I just lllluuuuuuuurve chocolate!

[BritAngie]

Hmpf. On the Farscape forum I'm on I'm keeping quiet cos it's a farscape forum but this is a Stargate one so I'm gonna unleash.

First, don't get me wrong. While I'm relatively new to Farscape I think that show is brilliant.
But.

Farscape fans seem - on the whole, of course they are individuals and can't be seen only as a group, that isn't true for all fans, etc etc etc - but they seem to be quite arrogant when comng to other television shows - especially SG1. I'm not tlaking about those who say Stargate caused Farscape's cancelation and so they're on an eternal crusade again Stargate, nor on those who said they tried watching it several times and it just isn't their thing. I'm talking about those who say they enjoy Stargate - but then go off and saying how it's so beneath Farscape, will never achieve its greatness, how it's unoriginal but entertaining while Farscape was all about new and different and innovation etc etc etc. Sorta like the editorial for this week about the media; Sorta like some of the comments in this thread itself. Farscape was brilliant. That being said, it had its share of dumb, repetitive, pointless, badly done episodes. Bringing up some of Stargate's "cheese" as opposed to some of the best Farscape episode isn't proving Farscape is better, it's proving the writer is biased. On a sidenote, on the three "same old scifi idea" episodes that correspond between Stargate and Farscape (Holiday as opposed to Out of Their Minds; Zero Hour as opposed to Natural Election; and Avatar as opposed to John Quixote) well, IMHO, SG-1 won, big time.

I guess I'm mainly saying what that editorial said. You want to see SG-1 in its best of glory - watch Heroes, Meridian, Threads, Abyss, Reckoning, The Fifth Race, There but for the Grace of God... etc etc etc. Stargate is special enough when you're looking at the right places - just like you can easily get the impression Farscape is a 12-year-old stupid show if you look at specific episodes, and only them.

Sorry again for that... I've been getting frustrated over this subject over Farscape forums for a while, but I don't feel like - or want - to start those wars there. Here on a Stargate messageboard, however, it's a differnet issue

Hi Pitry- Not all Farscape boards are like that and most of what Scapers post is very tongue in cheek. You know by posting how you feel in an articulate and constructive manner on those or the current board you post to won't start any wars- hopefully it will create an interesting debate. If you can bring to the table why you love stargate and explain the passion and what you love about it- by sharing this with others perhaps you could help them understand? You may get some new Gaters out of it into the bargain. Most of the boards are moderated and the mods won't ever let things get out of hand. The only board that isn't moderated as much is the Sci fi main boards.. and I'd not take that range of boards as a measure of any fandom to be honest.

Also please don't mistake pride for arrogance. As a fandom we were told our show was dead. To give it up. We were told as a fandom and save the show campaign we'd last 2 weeks. We were insulted, belittled and ignored. But still we continued. And then somehow we got the mini series made. For us it was a case of the little show that could. That for all those naysayers that us fans could make a difference. That the viewers for once could change things. We are a little proud of that.. and it gives us strength to hope for more of the show we love. We've been at this for years now and we have much to be thankful for. Some people do lose sight of the achievements of other shows and can be unkind but also as a fandom we recognise that there are other fab shows out there too. We supported the Browncoats when Firefly went down and Enterprise. We don't want to see any fandom experience what we did. So please don't take some of us the wrong way please.

Please don't be frightened of us Scapers... we don't bite honest- just nibble a bit.

[SunKrux]

Hi Pitry- Not all Farscape boards are like that and most of what Scapers post is very tongue in cheek. You know by posting how you feel in an articulate and constructive manner on those or the current board you post to won't start any wars- hopefully it will create an interesting debate. If you can bring to the table why you love stargate and explain the passion and what you love about it- by sharing this with others perhaps you could help them understand? You may get some new Gaters out of it into the bargain. Most of the boards are moderated and the mods won't ever let things get out of hand. The only board that isn't moderated as much is the Sci fi main boards.. and I'd not take that range of boards as a measure of any fandom to be honest.

Also please don't mistake pride for arrogance. As a fandom we were told our show was dead. To give it up. We were told as a fandom and save the show campaign we'd last 2 weeks. We were insulted, belittled and ignored. But still we continued. And then somehow we got the mini series made. For us it was a case of the little show that could. That for all those naysayers that us fans could make a difference. That the viewers for once could change things. We are a little proud of that.. and it gives us strength to hope for more of the show we love. We've been at this for years now and we have much to be thankful for. Some people do lose sight of the achievements of other shows and can be unkind but also as a fandom we recognise that there are other fab shows out there too. We supported the Browncoats when Firefly went down and Enterprise. We don't want to see any fandom experience what we did. So please don't take some of us the wrong way please.

Well said Ang! To her you should listen Pit. Wise is she.

Please don't be frightened of us Scapers... we don't bite honest- just nibble a bit.

Wait a mintue, some of us do bite, but only if we're asked to. I never bite...unless asked. I also only bite hard, if asked. LOL

[Pitry]

Oh, dear me. I guess I should have went for the longer version of that post

er, after-the-end-of-the-post note: Eek. This post is longer than Order of the Phoenix, methinks. Bare with me.. please?

Sorry if you guys got the impression I think all Farscape fans are arrognat. I don't. I'm also very impressed by the sense of community and postivie vibe comuunity vibe from the whole Farscape community - the only places I've been a part of\ seen such a vibe on an online community had involved much, much smaller number of people.
I also agree about the pride thing. A lot of it is pride - and it is, to some extent, well deserved and earned.
I disagree that all of it is pride.

*sigh* to show off me being a psychology student (LoL), I do feel the Farscape community suffers from a bit of an extensive case of in-group-bias. Perhaps it's because the community is very united, your "hardships" etc, but with certain people - and I do feel it's more than a small, insignificant minority - it has developed to more than pride, but rather a sense of "we're different, unique, better" - or as the term I used, in-group-bias. Again, not all FS fans are like that - and actually when I joined a FS forum I did read around and choose fMD becaus I felt it was more friendly and open than others (hmm, I haven't checked it yet, I wonder what they say about me there now... cough. Lol)

You know by posting how you feel in an articulate and constructive manner on those or the current board you post to won't start any wars- hopefully it will create an interesting debate.

I don't think it's my place. I mean, when I see the kind of attitude I'm talking about here, my first - and natural, I believe - reaction, is "Go and post it on a Farscape forum, not here". That's the point. Whatever I think of anyone, they have a right to their opinion. And a right to express it. If it's in GAteworld, or on SG1archive where I'm more active, I say Go to Kansas, FMD, Terra Firma or any other FS forum. If it's on a Farscape forum - well, who am I to tell people what to think or say?Actually, recetly in an FMD discussion, someone from the forum mentioned the word "arrogance" in the same context. When it comes from the community, all the better I said, but me - while I am a FS fan, I did present myself as first and foremost SG fan, making me quite the outsider and not the person to preach people on their behaviour. I knew I wouldn't've enjoyed it

If you can bring to the table why you love stargate and explain the passion and what you love about it- by sharing this with others perhaps you could help them understand?

Thing is, I don't think this is about Stargate, I think this is about Farscape As I said, I don't have any problem with those who simply don't like Stargate. My taste is my own abd people are allowed to differ (Although for the life of me, I can't figure why they'd want to! ). My problem is with people who enjoy Stargate - but seem to have the need to put it down. To always say afterwards "well, it's not FS, but". Actually, problem is a bad word here, I don't have a problem with them either. My feeling of arrogance, shall we call it Also, it might seem from this part of my post I don't believe some peope who enjoy both shows can like FS better, which of course isn't the case. I'ts the constant need - as I see it, at least - to give out the "it's not fS but it's decent"; "It's not as deep as FS, but it's good for entertainment", "it will never reach the FS level, but..." that gives me a feeling of arrgoance. People can like or dislike any show - whether it's Trek, Firefly, Stargate or the Gilmour Gilrs, without constantly comparing it to their favourite television show. When, in every single post, I get these vibes, I kinda get the feeling the people who do this are putting the show down on purpose - and that gives me the vibe of arrogance.

(edit, afterthoughts) Well, and sometimes an obvious misinformation\ lack of knwledge of the show. again, exclaimer, this is only my opinion, and I'm aware of it. Reading for the first time on FS forums "episode this and this had an almost FS humour\ line\ refernece" etc, is etnertaining - for the first time. When it's repetitive, I get the feeling people simply don't bother realising it's not FS humour - it's SG one. I guess what I'm trying to say here is, that I do feel it's arrogant - and am getting slightly pissed off by it - that people attribute anything good to "almost-FS quality" - or in the case of the new season, to Ben and Claudia, rather than realising - or be willing to admit - that it's Stargate, and what Stargate is all about. There's only a limit, I feel, ot how many times I can see "Oh, I never bothered about SG before because i's so straight-forward and boring, but now I see it with Ben and Claudia and it's great!" - before I start rolling my eyes at people who refuse to acknoweldge the possibility that it's not Ben and Claudia's contribution to the show, but rather the way the show has always been... even before FS ever got on the air.

Aw come on now..don't color FS just by how bad Jeremiah Crichton was.

LoL, I don't. Just like I know people don't judge SG by... I dunno, Nightwalkers. As I said, I feel FS was brilliant... just like I feel SG is brilliant - but I'm not above admitting both shows have had serious blunders, in all seasons and at all times.

I've been there, done that with being treated poorly due to my not having the time, energy or money to fight the "bring back Scape" campaign. Frankly, the people who've called me a traitor or not a "true fan" (don't get me started on the whole "true fan" stuff. ) because I didn't put myself into debt to help FS stay on the air aren't worth my time. I know who my friends are and they accept me, psyhcotic and all, as I am.

Actually, this I am sorry to hear that. *hugs*
I honestly don't see the point in all of it, Stargate-FS animousity, inter-FS animousity, inter-SG animousity... I mean, it's a television show! Not your thing, no harm done! I misspelled animousity, didn't I... Sigh

lease don't be frightened of us Scapers... we don't bite honest- just nibble a bit.

Now you've done it! You shouldn't've started with the nibbling. I hardly post here specifically, so I'm not infamous here for it, but... *nibbles back*

and on the last (!!!) note:

And I was starting to like you, Pitry reading some of your posts at FMD... Past tense.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. Not as much by you not liking me, as I don't really know you and basically don't mind (and hey, let's face it, on all thsoe eprsonality test, it is better to be hatefully remmebered than forgotten ) but by seeing you'd be the kind of person to judge people either way by, what 40 posts of mine at FMD and 20 here? (don't recall seeing you in SG1archive). I feel you're not in position to like or dislike me, much like I'm not in the same position concerning you.

well, your choice, your way to live your life and who am I to critisise.. *shrug*

[oragans]

I love Farscape and i love Stargate i thought most scpers do and i amm glad BB and claudia black are on the show because they have helped it out and not becaue they were in farscape but because they are great actors - next in RYGEL.


Oh farscape fans do you know i can get the limited edition version of season 4 boxset.

[BritAngie]

I love Farscape and i love Stargate i thought most scpers do and i amm glad BB and claudia black are on the show because they have helped it out and not becaue they were in farscape but because they are great actors - next in RYGEL.


Oh farscape fans do you know i can get the limited edition version of season 4 boxset.

The Season 4 box set comes out at the end of the year in the UK I think.

[Kalliope]

The Season 4 box set comes out at the end of the year in the UK I think.

October. It's already for pre-order everywhere: Amazon UK, Play.com, Sendit.com, Bensonsworld.co.uk.

[the Fifth Race]

I have noticed that there is a bit of animosity by the Farscape crowd regarding Stargate.

To me personally they are one in the same. I loved Farscape, I also loved DS9, TNG, Andromeda, Babylon 5, Voyager, Jerimiah, BSG (new and old), Twilight Zone, X-files, Firefly...etc...I watched all the episodes, bought all the DVD's to all the aforementioned (re-watch them quite often). I also love SG equally (definetly my favorite!). If someone is closed minded to not watch one or the other because of loyalty to one show, then there pretty lame. And there also missing out on some great scifi!.

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

But of course they must all bow down to the High God of all Sci Fi: The Doctor

Who?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Well, I enjoy both shows immensely, but no matter how good they are...no matter how great the FX, no matter how well-written and executed....

They will never take the place of Doctor Who. With its unconvincing costumes, sets, and FX; it still remains my favorite.


When Sci-Fi cancelled Farscape, I was quite angry. They cited ratings, but it ran consistently close in ratings to Stargate SG-1. Farscape was its flagship for three years. When SG-1 barely beat it, Sci-Fi claimed this was the big reason it had been cancelled, setting fandom against each other. I do recall reading many posts from SG-1 fans taunting the Scapers and I recall some nasty responses in return.

Now some time has passed and I'm wondering if they're going to pull the same stunt with SG-1 and BSG. Sci-Fi likes to pretend they represent the community of science fiction fans, but we know this is first and foremost a business to them. The fate of our beloved science fiction shows is just a math problem for them to work out. Our feelings as fans are ultimately of little consequence. It's ironic, but if they were who they pretended to be, they'd have much more support from fans, simply because we appreciate loyalty.

Currently, I am noticing some animosity towards Mitchell as played by BB in this forum. By animosity, I mean rampant negativity which seems to stem from him not being RDA. It seems many folks made up their minds that they weren't going to like him, no matter what. Like it or not, he's here at least until the end of this season. Personally, I'm anxious to see how the character develops.

Sure, folks have a right to voice their opinions. I just don't see the point in the negativity. Let me put it this way. Currently, I don't know any people who like Stargate. I know only one person who likes Farscape. I don't know anyone who likes Doctor Who. If I bring them up in conversation, I get a weird look.

Now if I happened to be a fan of American Idol, The Sopranos, or Sex and the City, I'd be set. I could start a conversation with any random passerby and share an experience with them. Wow, how neat would that be? I can't even imagine such a thing happening! But, unfortunately for me, I can't stand those shows; nor, frankly, can I relate to those characters.

Now, we science fiction fans are a rare breed, often relegated to the fringes of society. So it is nice to be able log in to this forum and discuss Stargate with you all. And it's simply my personal opinion that, when faced with overwhelming numbers of nay-sayers in the general public, we would benefit from a little solidarity.

[Bomber]

Sure, folks have a right to voice their opinions. I just don't see the point in the negativity. Let me put it this way. Currently, I don't know any people who like Stargate. I know only one person who likes Farscape. I don't know anyone who likes Doctor Who. If I bring them up in conversation, I get a weird look.

Now if I happened to be a fan of American Idol, The Sopranos, or Sex and the City, I'd be set. I could start a conversation with any random passerby and share an experience with them. Wow, how neat would that be? I can't even imagine such a thing happening! But, unfortunately for me, I can't stand those shows; nor, frankly, can I relate to those characters.

Hey you should come on down here to Australia! Everyone's watching the new Doctor Who (or at least they were until it finished on the weekend) and loving it! Kinda helps that the entire series is being repeated from beginning to end on weeknights.

And as for Idol, Sopranos, Sex and the City, and lets throw Big Brother into that mix, down here there's a real love em or hate em attitude, so you'd be able to start up a conversation about how BAD they are pretty easily!

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

Hey you should come on down here to Australia! Everyone's watching the new Doctor Who (or at least they were until it finished on the weekend) and loving it! Kinda helps that the entire series is being repeated from beginning to end on weeknights.

And as for Idol, Sopranos, Sex and the City, and lets throw Big Brother into that mix, down here there's a real love em or hate em attitude, so you'd be able to start up a conversation about how BAD they are pretty easily!

Wow! Now I want to move there. It stinks being the odd one out.

I'm curious. I know Farscape was made in Australian, but I heard it didn't have many fans there. Is that true?

[macktheknife]

Yes.

It absolutely TANKED when it was on Free-To-Air debut (on the channel that had a financial interest it in), that channel quickly got out of it (damn expensive to produce) finance wise, and dropped it to midnight or 1am in a few weeks. It now is on Pay TV, I think.

I would say their is easily more Firefly or BSG fans than there ever was for Farscape.

[Gaussian]

Thing is, I don't think this is about Stargate, I think this is about Farscape As I said, I don't have any problem with those who simply don't like Stargate. My taste is my own abd people are allowed to differ (Although for the life of me, I can't figure why they'd want to! ). My problem is with people who enjoy Stargate - but seem to have the need to put it down. To always say afterwards "well, it's not FS, but". Actually, problem is a bad word here, I don't have a problem with them either. My feeling of arrogance, shall we call it Also, it might seem from this part of my post I don't believe some peope who enjoy both shows can like FS better, which of course isn't the case. I'ts the constant need - as I see it, at least - to give out the "it's not fS but it's decent"; "It's not as deep as FS, but it's good for entertainment", "it will never reach the FS level, but..." that gives me a feeling of arrgoance. People can like or dislike any show - whether it's Trek, Firefly, Stargate or the Gilmour Gilrs, without constantly comparing it to their favourite television show. When, in every single post, I get these vibes, I kinda get the feeling the people who do this are putting the show down on purpose - and that gives me the vibe of arrogance.

I totally get what you're saying.

I will say that ......well....I'm a scaper. And, truly I hadn't watched any Stargate until I heard that Ben Browder was coming on. But, I started watching on "Stargate Mondays".....and have totally fallen in love with Stargate for it's own merits. I think I miss RDA as much as anyone......even though I was so excited to see Ben back on tv again.

I don't think it's arrogance as much as a testament to how much we scapers loved Farscape. We're not totally ready to let it go.

I admit I love when it the writers have given the Farscape fans a little nod with a Farscape-like line or the exchange between Ben and Claudia on the first ep.

So be gentle with us Fargaters......it's like we're mourning the death of a loved one. I know you understand with RDA leaving.

Besides, I'm hoping if given the opportunity that if people like seeing BB and CB they might check out Farscape. I think there is plenty of room in the universe for both shows.

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

Yes.

It absolutely TANKED when it was on Free-To-Air debut (on the channel that had a financial interest it in), that channel quickly got out of it (damn expensive to produce) finance wise, and dropped it to midnight or 1am in a few weeks. It now is on Pay TV, I think.

I would say their is easily more Firefly or BSG fans than there ever was for Farscape.

Thanks for the information.

I didn't like the first few episodes of Farscape, but from the fourth episode on, it was very entertaining. One of the best sci-fi shows ever. The folks involved in that show should be very proud.

[BritAngie]

Yes.

It absolutely TANKED when it was on Free-To-Air debut (on the channel that had a financial interest it in), that channel quickly got out of it (damn expensive to produce) finance wise, and dropped it to midnight or 1am in a few weeks. It now is on Pay TV, I think.

I would say their is easily more Firefly or BSG fans than there ever was for Farscape.

The sad thing was that Channel 9 thought they were actually funding a show which was a childrens tv show. When they realised it wasn't they didn't know what to do with it and scheduled it all over the place. Then after a couple of seasons they decided to stop co funding it and Fox (I think) stepped in to continue the Australian funding but unfortunately their Aussie channels are all pay for type one. Such a shame because the show showcased shedloads of Australian creative talent which has since been uitlised by the likes of George Lucas for the Star wars franchise and also the Matrix franchise.