The Angels Take Manhattan (3305/705)

[GodAtum]

Ah OK. How long will people's memory of them last? I feel sorry for Karen because when a new companion comes along every forgets about the previous one. I cant even remember who the Ponds replaced.

[SaberBlade]

I'm sure they'll find a way to get the Ponds back, like The Doctor landing in New Jersey and just taking a bus, or perhaps travelling to a different part of the planet and just flying the Tardis there.

[squirrely1]

The apartment was erased from time so luckly for them they wouldn't be stuck there... probably stayed and lived in New York.

On another note could of really done without the giant angel statue of liberty but other than that a awesome episode!

Yeah I'm with you on the statue of liberty that was hokey and sort of a cheap shot... I mean please...is absolutely nothing sacred in life....and how many times has the poor statue of liberty been used in scifi movies...it's just over used. But I did love it...although when they came back after having jumped off the roof just to lose them again...I thought that was an uneeded roller coaster of a ride.. I don't get how if the time line was erased and the angels supposedly were wiped out how they came back and got Rory in the end again? It seemed a bit... IDK.... weird there...I almost would have rather them not having come back at all after the fall...but maybe they didn't really come back? they were in the grave yard after all ...and maybe it was just amy there and she had to come to terms with Rory's death in her own way...and then join him...cuz she was three years older than him...the age on the tombstone....I didn't thikn Amy's character was older than Rory? Someone have anything to help with this?

[MasySyma]

Amy and Rory are roughly the same age. The numbers mean he died first. She outlived him by five years.

[MasySyma]

The episode was ok, but not amazing. Overall, Series 7 has been very meh.

We needed to know Amy's age so that we could know should we be concerned about Rory's dad. What was the point of even introducing him? It is also odd since he wasn't at the original wedding. What about Amy's "parents"?

The Statue of Liberty thing was just bad. If the city never sleeps, someone can always look at hold that angel in its place.

River was good, and I liked how the Doctor healed her.

I've never warmed to Amy, and the extra hype surrounding her departure has been annoying, but the episode was descent.

I just hope we get a strong and intelligent companion now.

[Quizziard]

Technically, of course, Amy and Rory haven't died: they've been zapped back in time to live to death... out of their normal timeline and without impacting history with their foreknowledge of (some) major events. [Depends how good their history is..]

But, I'm with others (above): after zapping the entire paradox, how come there is already another Angel standing mere inches away from Rory in the cemetery? I suppose it could still just randomly have been there (but it's difficult for it, trying to move in the open in daylight) or, stretching the logic, wasn't part of the whole battery-farmed-time-travel thing and therefore wasn't zapped by the paradox?

[Cold Fuzz]

I've watched it twice. This was a difficult episode to watch given what happens to the characters. I'll start off with the criticisms first since I want to end the review with the positives.

Negatives

• The surrounding area. This is a small nitpick, but since local residents are somewhat aware of Winter Quay's sinister nature, I couldn't help but wonder if any of them have informed the authorities of what may be going on there. Then again, any police sent there likely disappear along with the other unfortunates that visit the place. That, and who in 1938 would believe anybody's story about moving statues? Still, you've got an entire apartment building where people are mysteriously disappearing. That's bound to attract some seriously unwanted attention for the Angels. How can they get away with a major operation like this without anyone noticing? Who the owns the building anyway? Grayle?
• Winter Quay's interior. The Angels must be very good at housekeeping as the interior seems quite well-maintained. They must also have some typing skills since the names of various prisoners are on the walls. The only other explanation is that they must have a human servant working for them? That seems unlikely though.
• The Statue of Liberty. First, I must say, I love the Moff's writing. I loved Blink, and most of his episodes before and after RTD's departure. Having said that, I just have to ask, how many shots of Scotch did he drink to include Lady Liberty in this episode? I mean, come on. Like many other people here, I did not like the statue's role in this story. There's nothing wrong with hyperbole, but resorting to this kind of hyperbole... come on, Moff. You can do better than that. This isn't Ghostbusters and Lady Liberty ain't the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. I've always been a big proponent of realism and there's only so much suspension of disbelief I can stand before I just scowl. Something as big as the Statue of Liberty not being seen in New York? The implausibility is grating.
• The Detroit Lions Win the Superbowl. No. Just... no. Those who are attentive to detail will notice the newspaper headline when Amy and the Doctor are at Central Park. Having said that, the chances of the Detroit Lions winning a Superbowl are about as likely as the Chicago Cubs winning a World Series trophy... two years in a row. For those who are not in the know, the Chicago Cubs haven't won a championship in over a century and the Lions haven't won a Superbowl since 1957. *sigh* I find the existence of time paradoxes more probable than either of those teams winning any championship.
• The reading glasses. Ugh. I've always disliked glasses. Contact lenses are much better.
• New York Geography. So, the Doctor and Amy get from Central Park and then way across downtown Manhattan near Times Square, and then all the way to the shoreline near the George Washington Bridge in a couple of sentences. Hmm... *shakes head* My Aunt Celeste lives in Queens so I'm pretty familiar with NYC's geography.

Positives

• The opening titles. I haven't really liked any of the opening titles for series 7 except this one. The black vortex, foreboding lightning, and then transitioning to a ghostly greenish white was very effective.
  
• Winter Quay's interior. OK, it's very unlikely that the Angels are good housekeepers, but nonetheless, the effect of the interior lighting and choice of colors is disturbing: Blood red carpet and walls, creaking floor, brooding and subdued lobby and stairwells, automated elevator and of course, Weeping Angels lurking in the dark. Yeah, you have to suspend your disbelief a little in order to wrap your head around a place like Winter Quay but visually, it truly is frightening. If such an interior existed in real life, I would not walk around a place like that without being heavily armed.
• The typewriter in the background. As someone who writes for both pleasure and for work-related reasons, I loved it.
• The Sting Song. OK, Sting isn't exactly my favorite but given how appropriate the lyrics were, it fit the opening perfectly.
• Amy: "She's got ice in her heart, a kiss on her lips, and a vulnerable side she keeps well-hidden."
• The Melody Malone book. Unlike River, I actually liked the cover. Plus, it's a brilliant plot device for time travel-related issues.
• The Cherubs. I've disliked Cherubs for many years now, though I'm not even sure why. Thank you Moff for transforming something I dislike into a wonderfully chilling predator. The footsteps in the dark, the sharp teeth, and the sadistic childish laughter... excellent villains.
• River. I can't help but wonder what she's doing in 1938 to begin with but when I saw her face, I just smiled from ear to ear. I know some fans dislike her large number of appearances in series 6 but I have missed her. Her moments with the Doctor--especially hiding her wounds, emotional damage, and not allowing the Doctor to see her age--all absolutely riveting for me and added wonderful depth to her character.
• The Paradox. The idea of defying destiny and thwarting the Weeping Angels with a temporal paradox was a brilliant piece of writing, in my opinion. There's many, many layers of subtext and symbolism I could expound upon with the paradox, but to me, Amy & Rory's decisions in creating a paradox and unraveling the Angels' timeline speaks about the power of our choices. Their jump... wow. Combined with the music and everything else that was happening, the jump was incredible. The glowing effect for the paradox was nicely done too.
• A fixed point in time. I knew the moment I saw Rory's name on the gravestone early on in the episode that we were dealing with a fixed point in time. The Cherub near the fountain (which sent Rory back to 1938 in the first place) and the last Angel in the graveyard were likely the only survivors of the unraveled timeline, otherwise NY City would be littered with Angelic survivors. Those two Angels were likely part of the causal chain of events comprising the fixed point in time where Amy & Rory are sent back into the past.
• Amy, Rory, and the Doctor. All three were in top form. As Amy & Rory are my favorite companions (with Martha just behind), I will miss them greatly. I feel bad for Rory's dad though. Will the Doctor ever tell him what happened, I wonder? Matt Smith really delivered with this episode, demonstrating a vast emotional range for the Doctor. His rage at discovering Amy's farewell chapter, his despair at losing the people he loved the most, and his usual bubbly enthusiasm, was all wonderful to watch.
• Murray Gold's soundtrack. My goodness, the soundtrack for this episode broke my heart, especially the big leap for Amy & Rory and Amy deciding to let the angel send her back into the past. Musically, it was some of the best I've heard for the show, with an intensity matching tracks like The Sad Man With a Box and Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. I'm grabbing the soundtrack for series 7 the moment it becomes available.
• The final shot of a young Amelia Pond changing into a sepia tone. Goodness, that floored me. The finality of that shot was powerful.

Despite some problems with the episode, I absolutely loved it. I thought it was a great send-off for the two longest tenured companions for the Doctor in recent years. They took up a large portion of the Eleventh Doctor's life, filling over 300 years of his personal timeline. Souffle Girl has some big shoes to fill.

[GodAtum]

I feel sorry for Rory's dad, he must of been lonely losing his family.

[Coco Pops]

Ah OK. How long will people's memory of them last? I feel sorry for Karen because when a new companion comes along every forgets about the previous one. I cant even remember who the Ponds replaced.

The Ponds replaced the wonderful Donna Noble

[Coco Pops]

Technically, of course, Amy and Rory haven't died: they've been zapped back in time to live to death... out of their normal timeline and without impacting history with their foreknowledge of (some) major events. [Depends how good their history is..]

But, I'm with others (above): after zapping the entire paradox, how come there is already another Angel standing mere inches away from Rory in the cemetery? I suppose it could still just randomly have been there (but it's difficult for it, trying to move in the open in daylight) or, stretching the logic, wasn't part of the whole battery-farmed-time-travel thing and therefore wasn't zapped by the paradox?

The Angels started out brilliant in the episode "Blink" but went downhill from there. They were once great villians but ths numerous changes to the way they work have made them jump the shark a bit iMHO.

And what was theat line the Doctor said when he saw that Angel in the gangster's appartment? "It's in pain" OMG it's a fricking statue belt it more with a hammer...... What would happen if you completely broke an Angel or smashed it to bits anyway?

[P-90_177]

Yeah, I know.

I'm saying that that style of frames doesn't really suit him.

Well perhaps not but all of the Doctors attire isn't meant to suit him. He's supposed to look like an oddball. Perfectly in keeping with the character. Though personally I liked Amy with glasses better.

OMG one of the few good episodes this series.... Sad to say bye bye to Amy and Rory but that was done in such a brilliant way. Loved that the gravestone changed automatically when Amy died.

A rather good send off for them I think.

But yes howcome in "the city that never sleeps" no one notices the statue of liberty moving?


Oh and since when the the Angels take over statues? I thought in the beginning they were statues.... Did they mess with canon again?

We don't know enough about the Angels to say one way or another. We know the Angels are patient so perhaps they've just always been there, or maybe they can choose to take the form of existing statues. I see nothing contradictory about it.

Ah OK. How long will people's memory of them last? I feel sorry for Karen because when a new companion comes along every forgets about the previous one. I cant even remember who the Ponds replaced.

That's not how it works. When the Angels zap them back they are gone from their period of history but everything about their life until they were zapped back is still there. To all of Amy's and Rory's family and friends they will just know that they disappeared one day. So no one will forget them. Also I doubt that they will be just forgotten by the Doctor in the show either like he seems to with a lot of his companions. They had such a big impact in his life so even when he gets other companions he's going to still miss Amy and Rory. They were his best friends.

Yeah I'm with you on the statue of liberty that was hokey and sort of a cheap shot... I mean please...is absolutely nothing sacred in life....and how many times has the poor statue of liberty been used in scifi movies...it's just over used. But I did love it...although when they came back after having jumped off the roof just to lose them again...I thought that was an uneeded roller coaster of a ride.. I don't get how if the time line was erased and the angels supposedly were wiped out how they came back and got Rory in the end again? It seemed a bit... IDK.... weird there...I almost would have rather them not having come back at all after the fall...but maybe they didn't really come back? they were in the grave yard after all ...and maybe it was just amy there and she had to come to terms with Rory's death in her own way...and then join him...cuz she was three years older than him...the age on the tombstone....I didn't thikn Amy's character was older than Rory? Someone have anything to help with this?

Right ok, to clarify, the paradox didn't wipe the Angels from existence. Remember river described the paradox as like poisoning the well. The Angels feed of temporal energy, but a paradox is the wrong sort of energy. But poisoning isn't instant or a sure thing. The Angel that caught Rory was a survivor. Probably one of the strongest Angels before the paradox.
Don't think of the Angels as regular beings that are affected by time like everything else. The Tenth Doctor described them as beings of the abstract.

Technically, of course, Amy and Rory haven't died: they've been zapped back in time to live to death... out of their normal timeline and without impacting history with their foreknowledge of (some) major events. [Depends how good their history is..]

But, I'm with others (above): after zapping the entire paradox, how come there is already another Angel standing mere inches away from Rory in the cemetery? I suppose it could still just randomly have been there (but it's difficult for it, trying to move in the open in daylight) or, stretching the logic, wasn't part of the whole battery-farmed-time-travel thing and therefore wasn't zapped by the paradox?

See my answer from above here. The paradox was only ever designed to erase Rory's death and poison the energy the Angels were using. It didn't erase them, it killed them. Likewise the hotel is probably still there, just now the Angels are dead it will fall into disrepair.

I've watched it twice. This was a difficult episode to watch given what happens to the characters. I'll start off with the criticisms first since I want to end the review with the positives.

Negatives

• The Detroit Lions Win the Superbowl. No. Just... no. Those who are attentive to detail will notice the newspaper headline when Amy and the Doctor are at Central Park. Having said that, the chances of the Detroit Lions winning a Superbowl are about as likely as the Chicago Cubs winning a World Series trophy... two years in a row. For those who are not in the know, the Chicago Cubs haven't won a championship in over a century and the Lions haven't won a Superbowl since 1957. *sigh* I find the existence of time paradoxes more probable than either of those teams winning any championship.
• The reading glasses. Ugh. I've always disliked glasses. Contact lenses are much better.
• New York Geography. So, the Doctor and Amy get from Central Park and then way across downtown Manhattan near Times Square, and then all the way to the shoreline near the George Washington Bridge in a couple of sentences. Hmm... *shakes head* My Aunt Celeste lives in Queens so I'm pretty familiar with NYC's geography.

Let's be honest here... We English don't give a crap about American Rugby so we really don't care who is likely to win the superbowl. Moffatt will have just picked a team that he actually knows the name of.

As for the geography, I doubt it's the first show or film to take liberties with New Yorks area, so I wouldn't really worry about that too much. Though I understand why things like that can easily irk people.

On a personal note though I'm the opposite to you. I can't stand contact lenses. I can't wear them at all. But I prefer people wearing glasses anyway. Much better look than without.

The Angels started out brilliant in the episode "Blink" but went downhill from there. They were once great villians but ths numerous changes to the way they work have made them jump the shark a bit iMHO.

And what was theat line the Doctor said when he saw that Angel in the gangster's appartment? "It's in pain" OMG it's a fricking statue belt it more with a hammer...... What would happen if you completely broke an Angel or smashed it to bits anyway?

I'd hardly say numerous changes. We've only seen them 3 times so far. In the Time of Angels two parter they were damaged and weak and didn't have enough energy to zap people back so they took to killing by just snapping people necks and such. I see no problem there. The only bit where they took liberties was where you could see them moving but that can easily be explained with a leap of imagination. The Angels are still a new enemy. In all of Doctor Who history not everything has ever been explained about one of his villains in one episode. The Angels are still evolving as characters.

Why shouldn't they be able to be hurt? Plus keep in mind that he also had it chained up, so not only was he taking a hammer to it, there's a good chance he was also starving it to death too.

[Cold Fuzz]

Though personally I liked Amy with glasses better.

Can't agree there and I don't think Karen Gillan liked the frames much either, considering how they were constantly slipping on her nose. I had a pair of glasses somewhat like those 20 years ago and I couldn't stand those either.

Also I doubt that they will be just forgotten by the Doctor in the show either like he seems to with a lot of his companions. They had such a big impact in his life so even when he gets other companions he's going to still miss Amy and Rory. They were his best friends.

I agree there. Amy & Rory occupied a large portion of his life. He's 1200 now and the two of them were around for 300 of those years. He's going to be emotionally devastated for a long time.

Right ok, to clarify, the paradox didn't wipe the Angels from existence. Remember river described the paradox as like poisoning the well. The Angels feed of temporal energy, but a paradox is the wrong sort of energy. But poisoning isn't instant or a sure thing. The Angel that caught Rory was a survivor. Probably one of the strongest Angels before the paradox.
Don't think of the Angels as regular beings that are affected by time like everything else. The Tenth Doctor described them as beings of the abstract.

There have been Angels on Alfava Metraxis (these ones likely wiped out the Aplans), Razvahan, New York, and in England. If the Angel that zapped Rory was one of the Winter Quay Angels, that implies that the Angels themselves can travel through space and time at will, which makes perfect sense given how they feed and how they're scattered on different planets.

As for the geography, I doubt it's the first show or film to take liberties with New Yorks area, so I wouldn't really worry about that too much. Though I understand why things like that can easily irk people.

Small things, I don't mind. However, wildly reshaping NYC is something else. The city is huge, much larger than people might think. It could take literally an entire day to get from one side of Manhattan to the other by foot. And crossing the George Washington Bridge without a vehicle? That'd necessitate a subway trip.

On a personal note though I'm the opposite to you. I can't stand contact lenses. I can't wear them at all. But I prefer people wearing glasses anyway. Much better look than without.

I stopped wearing glasses over 18 years ago. They were quite a liability, always breaking or almost breaking, and constantly slipping on my nose. I can wear contact lenses for as long as 20 hours a day and I don't have any issues with them. I don't have to have something moving around on my face constantly and with contact lenses, I have much more peripheral vision than glasses. As for how glasses look, it's all a matter of taste.

[Blencathra]

Can I just say I thought Amy's glasses were a tribute to Diane Keaton in Annie Hall.

I have a theory. The Statue of Liberty is a weeping angel. However, it does not move. It is fixed in place by people looking at it.

However, remember the image of an angel becomes an angel. My belief is that the angel at Winter Quay was created by the picture of the Statue of Liberty in the lift. As for why people can't see it... well people don't seem to be noticing anything odd about the Winter Quay Apartments. So it seems to me that the angels are doing something there that prevents them from being seen.

[Cold Fuzz]

Can I just say I thought Amy's glasses were a tribute to Diane Keaton in Annie Hall.

I have a theory. The Statue of Liberty is a weeping angel. However, it does not move. It is fixed in place by people looking at it.

However, remember the image of an angel becomes an angel. My belief is that the angel at Winter Quay was created by the picture of the Statue of Liberty in the lift. As for why people can't see it... well people don't seem to be noticing anything odd about the Winter Quay Apartments. So it seems to me that the angels are doing something there that prevents them from being seen.

I'd give you some more green but I can't at the moment. Excellent observation about the Statue of Liberty's picture in the elevator.

The thing is though, the surrounding residents did notice something was grievously wrong with the Winter Quay building. At the very beginning, we see some locals warningly looking at Sam Garner as he enters the building. A little girl even imitates the Angels by covering her face/eyes with her hands so they definitely know something's amiss. At this point, I suppose the locals probably thought that the building was haunted.

[Blencathra]

LOL. Thanks! I did wonder why such prominence was given to the picture in the lift. They made sure we saw it all nicely lit up on two separate occasions.

Were those people in surrounding buildings, or were they residents of Winter Quay trapped by the angels? I can't remember. Looks like I'll have to go & watch the episode for a fourth time.