Journey's End (3013/413)

[Sealurk]

I think the build up was justified by the result of the Osterhagen key, effectively destroying the entire planet, not actually what it was.

I'd give this episode 10/10, coupled with last weeks makes incredible viewing. I know many people won't be happy about this but imo stargate needs to take a page out of Doctor Who's book on how to do season finales, it's literally mind blowingly good.

In the hands of UNIT, with Jack and Harriet getting so upset over it, I thought the Key would unleash some kind of advanced, untested alien tech, or that it might well be a doomsday weapon...just an advanced, untested, alien one. Nukes in the ground? Meh. Why not say it tapped into the Racnoss vessel at the planet's core and unleashed hell that way?

Mickey and SJS escaping with Daleks surrounding them? Rubbish. I thoroughly enjoyed the episode for the ride, for the plot twists and such, but I did think it was very poorly written. A few alterations (Torchwood timelock? Blind Daleks? Donna's end?!?!) would have instead had me smiling, not seething.

Stargate can't hold a candle to Who.

[Lils]

with the re-regeneration and channeling all the energy into the hand after healing himself does it mean that the Doc is on his 11th regeneration? is DT the 10th and 11th Doc?

[Naonak]

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode for the ride, for the plot twists and such, but I did think it was very poorly written. A few alterations (Torchwood timelock? Blind Daleks? Donna's end?!?!) would have instead had me smiling, not seething.

Did you think that Donna's fate was actually bad writing, or did you just not like that happening to her?


Although, speaking of fates, they never did explain why it was that the Doctor and Donna kept getting drawn together, did they? (although, really, she was trying to find him in Partners in Crime, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about that one)

[Alipeeps]

The psychic girl from The Unquiet Dead (the Dickens episode), who was played by Eve Myles.

EDIT: Dammit, Ali!

Nyah nyah!

with the re-regeneration and channeling all the energy into the hand after healing himself does it mean that the Doc is on his 11th regeneration? is DT the 10th and 11th Doc?

That's a darn good question and one DT himself said in Doctor Who Confidential he's sure will be cause for a lot of discussion in the future.

Did you think that Donna's fate was actually bad writing, or did you just not like that happening to her?

The more I think about it, the more heartbreaking it is what happened to Donna and I think RTD's right, it is like a death. Death of the Donna we knew. Worse than death, maybe? I love that the show went there though, that it did something so different and so kinda dark and sorrowful.

Although, speaking of fates, they never did explain why it was that the Doctor and Donna kept getting drawn together, did they? (although, really, she was trying to find him in Partners in Crime, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about that one)

I'm not sure they ever did explain that properly. They said something about a someone or something working to bring them together and allow this to happen? Maybe they meant Dalek Caan? He admitted at the end that he facilitiated all of this... but how could he have affected Donna and the Doctor and brought them together? I thought he couldn't manipulate time or anything (he merely manipulated Davros and the Daleks)?

[Naonak]

Nyah nyah!

*angry incoherent mumblings*

The more I think about it, the more heartbreaking it is what happened to Donna and I think RTD's right, it is like a death. Death of the Donna we knew. Worse than death, maybe? I love that the show went there though, that it did something so different and so kinda dark and sorrowful.

Yeah, I thought it was great writing. Even Wilf, who completely loves her to bits, said she was "better" with the Doctor, but now she probably never will be again. So, so tragic.

I'm not sure they ever did explain that properly. They said something about a someone or something working to bring them together and allow this to happen? Maybe they meant Dalek Caan? He admitted at the end that he facilitiated all of this... but how could he have affected Donna and the Doctor and brought them together? I thought he couldn't manipulate time or anything (he merely manipulated Davros and the Daleks)?

Oh, yeah, Dalek Caan... Somehow...

Davros - Julian Bleach was great again, by the way - talking about what the Doctor does to his companions was really poignant.

Oh, as was Dalek Caan talking about all the people who die for him...

[Sealurk]

Did you think that Donna's fate was actually bad writing, or did you just not like that happening to her?

Um...

Alright, I admit it. I just thought that was a particularly bad ending for a character I had grown to love, and thought was the best companion the Doctor's had since he was Peter Davison.

Then again, this being Science Fiction, and Doctor Who in particular, maybe series five or six will open with the TARDIS landing in London and the Doctor (still Tennant, hopefully) racing out towards Donna's house with a chunk of alien technology that will allow her to remember safely, giving her the happy ending I think she deserves!

But towing Earth? Awesome. All companions flying the Tardis? Brilliant. K9's cameo? Great. The whole episode?

Fantastic!

[Matt G]

OK...

1. The non-regeneration. Don't make us freakout like that!

2. German Daleks. Cool but would the Daleks really have bothered switching through all the languages of Earth. Have we ever heard the Daleks say "Exterminate" in an alien languages before?

3. Two Doctors...or rather a non-Doctor, he sounded off from the first second but he did the business well enough!

4. One very crowded TARDIS. And a very cool return home sequence.

5. Bummer about Donna. Meh about Mickey. I suppose the Doc 2 going to live in the alternate reality was inevitable but the smooch was...hmmm.

One hell of a finale though!

[MerryK]

Gah, I loved and hated this episode! Loved it way more than I hated it, but Rose has become intolerable to me. I loved her in the first season, and she was okay in the second season, but ever since she's been a selfish mess. Did not deserve Doctor #2! That one scene could have ruined the episode for me.

Thankfully, it was followed by the brilliant Doctor/Donna ending, which had me bawling and depressed, even as I am in awe at how amazingly well-written it was. I've adored Donna ever since Partners in Crime, and I am heartbroken that she is leaving, but what a way to go! I love a good tragic ending, and this ranks up with the best of them. I hope we get to see her and/or her family again...

The story in the rest of the episode was slightly confusing, but there were a lot of good bits. The German Daleks were awesome! I muttered a bit at the result of the regeneration, but it wasn't so bad after I think about it.

8.5/10

[GateGipsy]

OK...

1. The non-regeneration. Don't make us freakout like that!

Worst week ever! Read an article in the Times today speculating on whether it was the end for Tennant. Totally heart stopping! Makes for absolutely brilliant TV. That's a REAL cliffhanger.

2. German Daleks. Cool but would the Daleks really have bothered switching through all the languages of Earth. Have we ever heard the Daleks say "Exterminate" in an alien languages before?

It wouldn't make any difference to them what language they spoke, I imagine they're programmed to just switch between all of them. They probably don't even realise - it is just an automatic switch. No idea if we've heard them speak another language before.

3. Two Doctors...or rather a non-Doctor, he sounded off from the first second but he did the business well enough!

Doctor 2.0? New though but not improved. Doctor Vista?

4. One very crowded TARDIS. And a very cool return home sequence.

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

5. Bummer about Donna. Meh about Mickey. I suppose the Doc 2 going to live in the alternate reality was inevitable but the smooch was...hmmm.

One hell of a finale though!

Oh what a companion ending that was! It was a total roller coaster of a double-episode. Tonight took us up (yay he didn't change, they were all saved) down, then up again, then down, then way way way up (everyone driving the Tardis, well except poor Jackie) and then oh boy what a big trip down. How heartbreaking! I didn't warm to Donna the way I loved Martha (and also Rose but Martha is my fave), but I still really liked her and thought it was refreshing to have a different perspective on the doctor. I'm still traumatised by Adric's end. Don't know if I'll get over this one but at least she's still alive and with the change in attitude her mum will have, things will be better.

[Alipeeps]

OK...

1. The non-regeneration. Don't make us freakout like that!

I know! I've been in a state this week - thankfully I've been so busy I've not had much time to dwell on it but I'd reached the point where I'd convinced myself this was it and DT was leaving, just to attempt to cushion the blow if it did happen!

Oh btw, I loved his slightly smug little, "I didn't want to change. Why would I? Look at me!"

2. German Daleks. Cool but would the Daleks really have bothered switching through all the languages of Earth. Have we ever heard the Daleks say "Exterminate" in an alien languages before?

Probably not. But then, have we ever seen the Daleks interacting with non- English speaking humans without the Doctor around? The TARDIS translates - but if the Doctor's not there (as he wasn't in Germany) then no translation.

Worst week ever! Read an article in the Times today speculating on whether it was the end for Tennant. Totally heart stopping! Makes for absolutely brilliant TV. That's a REAL cliffhanger.

Oh heck, yes. This week has been hell! The whole freaking country has been speculating on whether Tennant is leaving! I bet the viewing figures for this ep will be IMMENSE!

Doctor 2.0? New though but not improved. Doctor Vista?

BWAH!!!

[GateGipsy]

Probably not. But then, have we ever seen the Daleks interacting with non- English speaking humans without the Doctor around? The TARDIS translates - but if the Doctor's not there (as he wasn't in Germany) then no translation.

Very good point.

Still German Daleks, totally cool. I can't imagine that they'd sound so cool speaking Italian or French. It needs to be a hard, gutteral language. Maybe Russian? Or Polish?

I was so totally caught up in this episode, that by the time they got them onto the Crucible and the Dalek shot Captain Jack, I leapt off my seat shouting No! as I'd completely forgotten that he couldn't die!

[ThePope]

I dont know what it is about dr who, but i just cant get into it I watched most of the 1st new series some realy odd eps in that one, like the gas mask one realy freeked me out!!!!! But i tuned into tonights finale to catch a glimbse of Davros who i saw many many years ago in one of the old eps, just to see if he was still as creepy as he was back then. And after watching the finale i realised why i couldnt get into it, its rubbish!!

I will admit i did like some of the story, like the weapon, very cool, and i do agree that if the Daleks wanted to be the only life forms in the universe why would they build it, they would have nothing to do, a totaly boring place, absalutely pointless........kinda like Belgium in a way.

I think the main problem is is that i find it unbalieveable, and there are a few reasons for this. When you watch sci-fi shows like startrek and stargate you think to yourself " yeah that could happen, faster than light travel on a starship" or "traveling to another planet through a wormhole" and then you have " a tiny time traveling phone booth wrapping some kind of magicle rope around a planet with the help of a robot dog made from a shoe box and 14 year old boy so that Earth can be dragged across space at warp speed with the only affect being a small shower of rain" It doesnt seem to me like there is any sort of science fact behind the show what so ever, could the BBC not spare any boffins from one of there documentaries to give a few ideas across?!

The casting is also a big problem, i dont feel that i can connect with any of the characters apart from the doctor, played very well by David tennant, and rose. There are just to many comedy actors, it doesnt feel like a serious sci-fi show like startrek and stargate do, comedy actors in sci-fi just dont work. Tate, Kay and that captain jack used to be a childrens tv presenter!!!!!! Was there a shortage of non comedy actors when they were casting the roles?? And its not only dr who that has suffered from comedy actors, stargate and the unfortunate Atlantis eps with Lucius!!!!

Also, the Daleks, a very cool villain, one of the best in sci-fi ill admit that. They seem to hate Earth an awfull lot but they seem to be aproaching the whole "exterminate" the human race thing all wrong. If they are surposed to be so advanced, the most powerfull and evil beings in the universe, couldnt they just wipe us all out from space?? Would save alot of time and money on rubbish props, and there would be no stares to tackle either!

Some things that could help out the show is some American sci-fi writers jumping over and giving our guys some tips. More money from the £2 billion that us generous Brits kindly give to the BBC every year to make these shows. I know ive said this before and people have told me that this is the way Dr Who has always been filmed, but before the new series popped up the budget for Dr Who was 10p and a box of drumstick lollys, the box being recycled to make the very convincing K9 robot dog! This show has so much potential and we just seem to be ruining it, as a Brit i sooooooooo want to love the show but in its current form its totaly dissapointing.

One last point, did anyone else notice the bit at the end with donna dieing? Of course you did. Why was she going to die again? All the doctors knowledge, the knowledge of the universe, was overloading her brain and killing her.........sound familiar?! Is there no such thing as an original idea any more??

ThePope

[Sealurk]

Of course, it just occurred to me (always in the wee small hours) exactly why the Doctor removed his mind from Donna's head - I don't doubt he could find a 'cure' for her if he wanted (travelling through time and space, moving planets back into their correct positions, what's a little genetic manipulation?), I just think he removed his mind to try and spare her remembering the Time War, the loss of Gallifrey and the other things he's done and seen that he knows no-one else should.

Oh, and I reckon the Doctor is still #10 regeneration-wise, but he essentially used up a regeneration making Doctor Two, so he's shortened his life.

As for The Pope's comments...I can see your points, but I (politely!) disagree. British SF has always stood out from US and Canadian, and Doctor Who at its best (I don't think Journey's End counts, but it was good) really shows why. Can you see Stargate pulling off something like Blink (Who Season 3 ep with the weeping angels)? Frankly, while I like a great deal of US SF (SG-1, BSG, but not ST, SW), I place it in a totally different league. Much as I love scientifically accurate, believable SF, I also like the stuff that doesn't even pretend to be accurate, and says the story is more important. Notice the technobabble in Who is always tongue-in-cheek.

Doctor Who sits alongside Farscape and B5 for being daring and original to me, and actually trying to break conventions, not feature cliche devices like SGA does. If American writers had a crack at Doctor Who, the Tardis would quickly end up with weapons, shields, a cloaking device, the Doctor would carry a gun (and use it without hesitation) and every episode would hit the cosmic reset button right at the end. Sure, Who has adopted a few US-isms, but if Who writers took a crack at SGA...well. THAT would be worth seeing...

[Willow'sCat]

I love this show so much I want to marry it!

OK I have not read anyone else's comments on this finale, I find other's thoughts can dampen my own happiness *funny that* so here goes...

Well no surprise that DT stayed, no real surprise that the hand was involved, I was a little disappointed in how RTD went about making all that happen, but then, well I got what I wanted:

An end to Rose/The Doctor shipping on Doctor Who (as we know it) and Donna goes out as the BEST COMPANION OF ALL TIME (bar ACE whom I still adore to death ).

On the companion dying... is it Rose dying before The DoctorII in the AUverse... then River Song meets him when he is old? They were working on a TARDIS of sorts in the AUverse right? I mean seriously we now have two DT versions of The Doctor out there and if one *ours* can for a brief moment end up in an AUverse then DoctorII can end up here? Right? In the future, which could also be in the past and stuff like THAT! I am going with Rose dying, in many years but still she is the one who dies.

I think.

OK story wise this was a bit too much to take on board all at once, unlike last week this one seemed to me to be a little too squished, a bit jam packed with tech talk all of a sudden. Not that I mind so much as I am not about the tech talk myself, don't watch for the sudo-science of scifi... I watch for the adventure! lol

Anyway...

Rose, not as important as I thought she would be, basically in this part she stood around and then went back home. Maybe that is the way it should have been as really Donna was the focus and she is the current companion. I didn't not like the way RTD ended the shipping but I also felt it came down once again to having to except *faux* as real and I am sorry, so sorry but I can't handle clones, I can't handle copies, we, people, Time Lords are all unique we cannot be just copied and replaced like some rich women's pet dog... sorry but morally and ethically I just have a hard time accepting that kind of stuff AND I KNOW it is only a show but it asked a little too much from me there, if it was anyone else... well it is The Doctor and he is totally 100% unique not to be copied or replaced. *shrugs* Just how I feel.

Oh but two DTs in one ep is better then one!
LOL I know what Jack was gonna say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *fanfic heaven*

Martha, Mickey (& Jackie) only there so RTD can set up them going off and ruining Torchwood next series. NO! OK I am trying to think about all those folks who were pissed off about CT being on DW and how wrong they were... But bloody hell!

Spoiler:

We lose Tosh and Owen for them?!?!? It will only work if RTD writes the dam series... he better write at least part of it anyway. Also Jack better stop saying Martha has the voice of a nightingale! He also better kiss Ianto again. There that's all I want.

SJS, well I liked her here but she seems a bit tacked on, I did like the Davros moment though *yay for Genesis of the Daleks*

Gwen and Ianto... well nice they didn't die, but not unexpected. Also nice to see The Doctor and Rose recognise Gwen as a relation of Gwyneth. RTD is really tiding up the loose ends ain't he?

The Doctor/Donna Well brilliant is all I can say. David is truly a wonderful actor, the part with Catherine where he talks like her must have been such fun to film, I imagine a lot of laughing going on that day.

Both David and Catherine acted their collective butts off in this one, in the whole series actually. I hope the people who were filled with hatred or at least malice towards the casting of CT found her performance to be every bit as capable and brilliant as I did in the end. Donna will be missed by me, I cried! Yep, they made me cry again. *******s!

David Tennant, David Tennant, bless the world for David Tennant.

We are so lucky to have had two wonderful actors in this new series taking on the role of The Doctor. Chris was great and David has been so wonderful at moving from the more angst feeling of Chris's Doctor to the more compassionate and dare I say human feelings of this Doctor. Honestly I am not sure another actor could have done that, not this convincingly anyway. Yay for more years of DT in Who!

I don't know if I would say this is a better finale then PotW (well I wouldn't) but as a tying up of loose ends and reaching for fresh starts, not bad at all.

I will come back with my "I can't believe they did that and we are ment to go along with it" comments later. I haven't even had my morning cup of coffee yet! And this post is long enough as it is.

[insomniac8400]

Now we wait until the doctor figures out how to go back to the time war and lead the time lords to victory.