Daleks in Manhattan (2904/304)

[Easter Lily]

If memory serves, the original daleks were humanoid... they were descendants of the Thal race, mutated after a nuclear holocaust.
I'm sure those among us who are more knowledgeable will be correct me if I'm wrong.

[SaberBlade]

I have to say, the whole 30's accents and the name Tallulah had me expecting pies to be thrown at some point. I had this "i'm gonna fill you full of lead"/Bugsy Malone feeling when watching the episode. I think someone may have been watching a bit too many gangster movies in mind when they wrote it.

But I am surprised at the Dalek's in this episode, by how far they'll fallen. During the cyberman invasion, the Dalek's said it would take just one to defeat 5 million cybermen, but 4 Dalek's can't destroy humanity in 1930's America and need to resort to making themselves less pure by incorporating human DNA. If the Dalek's enounctered by the 8th hated themselves because they were created from human, to have a member of the cult become the Davros seems to be a complete change of character.

I have to say that no one saying the "dalek" looked like a jelly fish surprised me. It's the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it.

[Willow'sCat]

If memory serves, the original daleks were humanoid... they were descendants of the Thal race, mutated after a nuclear holocaust.
I'm sure those among us who are more knowledgeable will be correct me if I'm wrong.

They were I believe mutated and then mutated again by Davros and encased in what we commonly call The Dalek, I don't recall the "race" originally being so single minded, I think that is all Davros. The master race influence was his alone. *I think* Canon in Doctor Who is not my strong point and even if it was I have a feeling Canon in Doctor Who is confused to begin with, and not getting any clearer.

BBC site has a beginner's guide to Doctor Who which just confuses me!

[cheese]

Worst episode of the new run I'd say. Hardly a single positive point after the last few minutes. Why didn't the Daleks recognise the Doctor? They recognised him within seconds in the finale last year. Those exact Daleks have met him. They know what he looks like.
The New York accents were poor. The storyline was pretty weak, considering how well plotted the last few episodes have been. I don't like the direction they are going with the Daleks in this, the new evolved Dalek surely is much weaker without the armoured shell, shields and weapons.

A few chuckles saved it from utter drivel.

A causal viewer friend said if this was the first episode they'd seen they'd never watch again... I'd be seriously tempted to skip the next episode if the preview hadn't shown that there was going to be a few good explosions.

[Phantom Limb]

But I am surprised at the Dalek's in this episode, by how far they'll fallen. During the cyberman invasion, the Dalek's said it would take just one to defeat 5 million cybermen, but 4 Dalek's can't destroy humanity in 1930's America and need to resort to making themselves less pure by incorporating human DNA. If the Dalek's enounctered by the 8th hated themselves because they were created from human, to have a member of the cult become the Davros seems to be a complete change of character.

completely agree, it just goes to show the writing talent of RTD far outstrips that of Helen Raynor (writer of the Torchwood ep, Ghost Machine) IMO.
RTD knows how to write for the Daleks, he knows their character and motivations, he knows their history. The biggest problem i had with the ep is that the Daleks are trivialised, they're like any other Doctor Who monster where as before it had always been an event to see those plunger wielding pepperpots.
but none, and i mean none of the Dalek dialogue was memorable, where was all the character we saw in Doomsday? the dialogue they had in that was great, the fact that even when they're down and out they still think they can "exterminate!" everything non Dalek and win, and that as mentioned in the quote is a massive plot hole in this ep, Daleks where bred to hate and kill, why not just obliterate mankind in the 1930's?
ok the cult of Skarro were given imaginations and allowed to think outside the box as it were, but they still have the Daleks prime directives, they are in New York in the 1930's humanity would have no hope of survival, did we even see a Dalek kill anything in this episode!? no they piss off and build the empire state building, wha? Daleks werent ever exactly known for their subtlety, but they're skulking and scheming like the slitheen, and who gives a s*** about them.

hmm, i feel i should end on a positive note, performances from the lead actors were top notch as usual, ive liked Martha more than Rose from the moment she came on screen and Tennant as usual just fantastic, and the moment where the Dalek came out of the lift was pretty cool i thought, just seeing the styles of Dalek and art deco together looked good on screen.
im not going to comment on the pig people for the simple reason that this is Doctor Who, nuff said.

bring on "Evolution of the Daleks" where hopefully we'll get to see some old school Dalek romper stomping.

[Matt G]

OK...

1. Not sure what the point of the pig things were, surely the Daleks could have come up with better henchmen.

2. Accents...known worse.

3. I liked the idea of Diagonis, not so sure I like the idea of this Dalek-human hybrid.

4. Definately liked Martha here.

Overall though, nice ideas, but it felt like the weakest of the Dalek eps. Still solid though and better than Gridlock.

[Easter Lily]

They were I believe mutated and then mutated again by Davros and encased in what we commonly call The Dalek, I don't recall the "race" originally being so single minded, I think that is all Davros. The master race influence was his alone. *I think* Canon in Doctor Who is not my strong point and even if it was I have a feeling Canon in Doctor Who is confused to begin with, and not getting any clearer.

BBC site has a beginner's guide to Doctor Who which just confuses me!

I decided to have a look at the Wikipedia entry and apparently Terry Nation fudged with Dalek continuity so I'm not surprised that we're confused.
Basically, what you've said is what I've read in Wikipedia. They were experimented on further by Davros (The Genesis of the Dalek) to become emotionless, killing machines.

I am very surprised at the general dislike for this episode. I must be more easy to please than I thought! I've seen it twice and like it even more on second viewing. I think it's better than The Shakespeare Code, to be honest.

[Jonzey]

Missed out on a brilliant opportunity in this episode. I was waiting for the Doctor to make a quip about being pig-headed. If it doesn't happin in part 2 I'll be really disappointed.

[ShadowMaat]

Why pigs? This is the second time we've had aliens creating pig people. Even if you disregard the entire simian family aren't there still other animals who are "similar" to us?

[unruhbrady]

These are the worst american accents I have ever heard.

thery're not 'american" accents they are 1930's Brooklyn accents...sound VERY diffrent from an "american" accent I for one found them right on the money!

[ShadowMaat]

The accent probably is authentic, but that doesn't make it good.

Not fond of NY/Brooklyn accents, authentic or otherwise.

[docballen]

The accent probably is authentic, but that doesn't make it good.

Not fond of NY/Brooklyn accents, authentic or otherwise.

Yeah, it's a Brooklyn accent... ol' Talullah reminds me of Bugs Bunny. (I like Bugs Bunny.)

I'm having trouble watching this episode... my usual source has run dry. I'm an American so I can't download it from BBC. **sigh**

[Willow'sCat]

I decided to have a look at the Wikipedia entry and apparently Terry Nation fudged with Dalek continuity so I'm not surprised that we're confused.
Basically, what you've said is what I've read in Wikipedia. They were experimented on further by Davros (The Genesis of the Dalek) to become emotionless, killing machines.

I love the "The Genesis of the Daleks" I can actually remember the first time I watched it (on its first run in Australia) scared the life out of me.

I think if Doctor Who fandom can agree on anything it is that canon has been fudge a lot over the years to suite the plot/storyline of the day. I don't really mind that, and after so many years it is not surprising.

I am very surprised at the general dislike for this episode. I must be more easy to please than I thought! I've seen it twice and like it even more on second viewing. I think it's better than The Shakespeare Code, to be honest.

I'm not surprised; I think many had already said before the episode aired that they were sick of seeing The Daleks. I agree on The Shakespeare Code, but then I wasn't that impressed with the witches so....

Back to the ep: One thing that is really bugging me, the guy, the one in charge of the project. Why use him? There is no way he was the most intelligent of the lot, even if we are meant to buy that The Daleks are a little slow when understanding what true intelligence is (they seemed happy with him just being greedy for power and control) they had that test thing (which is new to me) but I don't remember them checking him just to be sure? So why make such a huge decision just on one minor rant about power?

This is the problem with the episode so far there are too many plot holes, too many unanswered questions, too many weird decisions being made by The Daleks.

Oh and the reason IMHO that they (The Daleks) have fallen so low as some have said, is because in Doomsday they knew they had the Arc (full of Daleks) it (the stuff about 4 Daleks taking on all those Cybermen) was "trash talk".

They now know they are alone, there is no Arc, no army of Daleks waiting in the wings, all the other Daleks have been sent to the void thingy.

They are as alone as The Doctor, which is the plot and the whole point of the episode, to rebuild themselves into an army of human/Dalek things.

[Tanduay]

I thought it was an ok ep.

As for the accents. You should remember that NY was the principle arrival point for immigrants. In 1900 the population was 3,437,202, by 1930 it was 6,930,446.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra..._New_York_City

If anything the mix of accents would have been even worse.

The pigmen? Daleks have used roboslaves before but I think it would be part of their "genetic" modification plan to mess about with DNA for research purposes rather than helmets on this occasion. As has been pointed out above (and in the ep "most men are pigs") human and pig DNA is close enough to make really simple slaves. Looks like robomen might be in the next ep as well.

I had my doubts about a black man fighting in WW1 what with the segregation but I did some research and found limited numbers were allowed.

"The treatment of Negro soldiers was very poor considering Pershing’s nickname of Black Jack came from early service in the then Negro 10th Cavalry. Only the 368th Infantry of the Buffalo Division saw action briefly, the rest being used as pioneers, but four independent Negro units saw action with the French Army: 369th (ex-15th New York Infantry), 370th (ex-8th Illinois Infantry), 371st and 372nd Infantry, the 369th served 191 days in the line, longer than any other unit. The French were so impressed with the Negroes they called them the Black Watch!"
http://www.powell76.freeserve.co.uk/...20in%20WW1.htm

The new hybrid is certainly rather Davrosy.

Too many people guessing the Doctor is an alien these days I thought.

[Pitry]

Back to the ep: One thing that is really bugging me, the guy, the one in charge of the project. Why use him? There is no way he was the most intelligent of the lot, even if we are meant to buy that The Daleks are a little slow when understanding what true intelligence is (they seemed happy with him just being greedy for power and control) they had that test thing (which is new to me) but I don't remember them checking him just to be sure? So why make such a huge decision just on one minor rant about power?

I thougth that was the point tho. With their arrogance, they classify people tolower and higher intelligene but they never consider any of them as intelligent as a Dalek. His greed for power, however, reminds them of a Dalek - so, rather than choose by intelligence which they think they can't match, they'd go witht he most Dalek-esque trait they can find.

Well, reasonable to me