Caprica - Pilot (101)

[the fifth man]

it's not just Greystone's obsession with zoe, but to win or be the 'best' or 'first'

he could have stopped it but just had to take that one step more and militarize the cylons

and i couldn't catch it, what did cylon stand for?

cybernetic
life form

something???

Cybernetic Lifeform Node

[knowles2]

it's not just Greystone's obsession with zoe, but to win or be the 'best' or 'first'

he could have stopped it but just had to take that one step more and militarize the cylons

and i couldn't catch it, what did cylon stand for?

cybernetic
life form

something???

cybernetic life form node

I do not think he had an obsession with being the best or the first, he just wanted his daughter back.

The military side was the contract his company signed up to deliver and like all good military contracts it was way over budget and people were asking questions and demanding deliverables, and he was missing a key peice of technology, which he use emotional blackmail to get Adarma dad to ask his friends to steal it for both of them.
The potential of his daughter rebirth or resurrection just provided him with the courage and will power to do what ever he had to get the technology.

An apparently it seem the lack of court proceedings probably meant they just called in a favour and the company handed it over willingly and that Adarma dad was more important to them than the company and the family that owned it.
Considering Adarma dad has access to the highest levels of the government I can see why they choose him over the company.

But the whole corruption of the avatar during transfer to the cylon and him giving up on ever being able to do it again, made no sense at all. Not only did it make him look stupid for not duplicating the avatar before transferring it but he had the software that Zoe use to build it in the first and could easily of rebuilt the avatar from scratch like he did for Adarma dad daughter.

This shows weakness in the writers room for logical thinking an proof reading the scripts and lack of any scientific adivisor on the team, or just someone that can think things through a bit about how the technology might work. This was one of the weakness in BSG so not surprise it transfered over to caprica.

[HAL2100]

it's not just Greystone's obsession with zoe, but to win or be the 'best' or 'first'

he could have stopped it but just had to take that one step more and militarize the cylons

and i couldn't catch it, what did cylon stand for?

cybernetic
life form

something???

The Cylons were created for military purposes - hence that first sequence where the Centurion simply cannot hit the target, not to mention the multiple comments about working for the Defense department.

[HAL2100]

Regarding the comment above about Greystone not backing up Zoe...

I questioned that as well as soon as it happened, but given that it was such a big thing I find it difficult to believe that the writer's didn't discuss that. If they had really played up his grief as well as his obsession with bringing her back, then it would have been much more plausible that he didn't back the whole thing up as it would have played as his being so obsessed that he was doing everything possible to quickly have her.

On that note, I also liked how there were subtle suggestions of Cylon resurrection although the Colonials obviously never developed it.

[the fifth man]

Regarding the comment above about Greystone not backing up Zoe...

I questioned that as well as soon as it happened, but given that it was such a big thing I find it difficult to believe that the writer's didn't discuss that. If they had really played up his grief as well as his obsession with bringing her back, then it would have been much more plausible that he didn't back the whole thing up as it would have played as his being so obsessed that he was doing everything possible to quickly have her.

On that note, I also liked how there were subtle suggestions of Cylon resurrection although the Colonials obviously never developed it.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool too.

[knowles2]

On that note, I also liked how there were subtle suggestions of Cylon resurrection although the Colonials obviously never developed it.

Through it also make the Cylons and cavil looks stupid.
Well one colonial teenange developed it but as we seen so far it seem like it got forgotten about and no one else ever tried to develop it again. But from we Zoe had the technology in avatar form perfected and seemed it worked perfect. And from what we saw so far successfully uploaded into a robot body.

So from what we seen it has been developed and works but in as far as we know the knowledge to do it never left the greystones family and well someone must of destroyed it before the start of the war, which mean Zoe will probably have to be destroyed fairly soon or at least she never lead the cylons or one god people an never share her technology, certainly way before cylons try and build organic models and resurrection technology themselves.

[Skydiver]

i'm not sure if i totally saw 'grief stricken father' all the way through. Part of hte way, sure. But then there was a point when it hit him 'dang, my KID made the intuitive leap that i couldn't' and that's when he used the friend to steal zoe's code and then turned that code into a way to make the cybernetic cylon work.

thing is, and i'm sure i'll be told if i'm getting it wrong, the issue with making the war machines was programming them. and in using zoe's code, he got past that by 'taking' a human brain's programming and using it to run the machine.

if i'm right, whose brain is in that programming? and can it be those interpersonal flaws that are at the basis of the cylons 'flaws' in their programming.

and i don't think zoe will go away. I think she'll be the rebellion now. she'll see what her father did as the ultimate betrayal. his love of machines, etc. I think she'll take refuge somewhere in the data banks and she'll be behind the skinjob movement. she's seen through the virtual clubs, just how corrupt humans can be, and will see how the human form can seduce and manipulate 'normal' humans.

and that's been behind most of the skin jobs all along, the skin jobs were created to manipulate and trick the flesh and blood. something zoe will see and know.

i think zoe is Six 1.0

a mechanical construct that uses and manipulates the weaknesses of the flesh to get her way

[knowles2]

i'm not sure if i totally saw 'grief stricken father' all the way through. Part of hte way, sure. But then there was a point when it hit him 'dang, my KID made the intuitive leap that i couldn't' and that's when he used the friend to steal zoe's code and then turned that code into a way to make the cybernetic cylon work.

thing is, and i'm sure i'll be told if i'm getting it wrong, the issue with making the war machines was programming them. and in using zoe's code, he got past that by 'taking' a human brain's programming and using it to run the machine.

if i'm right, whose brain is in that programming? and can it be those interpersonal flaws that are at the basis of the cylons 'flaws' in their programming.

and i don't think zoe will go away. I think she'll be the rebellion now. she'll see what her father did as the ultimate betrayal. his love of machines, etc. I think she'll take refuge somewhere in the data banks and she'll be behind the skinjob movement. she's seen through the virtual clubs, just how corrupt humans can be, and will see how the human form can seduce and manipulate 'normal' humans.

and that's been behind most of the skin jobs all along, the skin jobs were created to manipulate and trick the flesh and blood. something zoe will see and know.

i think zoe is Six 1.0

a mechanical construct that uses and manipulates the weaknesses of the flesh to get her way

It was not Zoe code that he use to complete his work. From what was said the missing piece of technology was that Meta-Cognitive Processor that made the entire system work. That why were fearful of the contract falling to Vergis cooperation because they had developed and perfected that piece of technology which is design to mimic the human brain. This made it perfect for it to be used as a host for the Zoe avatar.

That from what they said when his assistance contacted him at his home and the discussion in the first test range scene.

It was shortly after meeting avatar Zoe and capturing her that he decided to steal the missing piece of technology which he was unable to developed himself. Something he would not do if his daughter was still alive.

And the reason I do not believe she becomes important to the cylons war is simply because they would not of needed the final five to developed the resurrection technology as zoe would have all the neccessary knowledge for such a thing. This sought of make the final five unspecial in many ways as it took five of them to do and she did all on her own.

[Chev's Ron]

Come on now that otimistic, I mean Ron more and questions being answer. Have you not seen the final of BSG. I would not get my hopes up to high.

I thought that the BSG finalie answered all of the major questions, Kara (who she was and everything), the Cylon homeasteroid, modern mankind,the opera house, and a host of other questions.

But I digress, I watched the extras on the Caprica CD, and saw how they made the show and what they plan to do with the show, everything that I've seen so far, I like.

The only problem I see with putting off the series for a year and a half, is that Admiral, er I mean William Adama will have aged a bit since the last filmed scene. I hope it isn't too noticeable if we happen to pick up right where Caprica left off.

I have never watched Lost, nor American Idol, or any other show that has to do more with relationships, teen drama, etc, however, I forced myself to make an exception when I watched Caprica, as I'm a die-hard BSG fan. Suffice to say, I was shocked at how much I loved Caprica. Maybe I should try an episode or two of those other shows, because if "caprica" is soo much of one of those type of shows, then those other shows aren't far from Battlestar Galactica, as I felt BSG's pulse every minute in Caprica.

Looking forward to 2010!

[knowles2]

I thought that the BSG finalie answered all of the major questions, Kara (who she was and everything), the Cylon homeasteroid, modern mankind,the opera house, and a host of other questions.
)

You must of watched a different one to the one I did then. but unless I think I picked apart the final enough already on other threads.

[HAL2100]

Through it also make the Cylons and cavil looks stupid.
Well one colonial teenange developed it but as we seen so far it seem like it got forgotten about and no one else ever tried to develop it again. But from we Zoe had the technology in avatar form perfected and seemed it worked perfect. And from what we saw so far successfully uploaded into a robot body.

So from what we seen it has been developed and works but in as far as we know the knowledge to do it never left the greystones family and well someone must of destroyed it before the start of the war, which mean Zoe will probably have to be destroyed fairly soon or at least she never lead the cylons or one god people an never share her technology, certainly way before cylons try and build organic models and resurrection technology themselves.

I wouldn't say that it made the Centurions look stupid as I see their 'ressurrection' as the equivalent of copying a file from one chip to another. The skin jobs, however, would be a whole other story because its 'organic memory transfer'.

[knowles2]

I wouldn't say that it made the Centurions look stupid as I see their 'ressurrection' as the equivalent of copying a file from one chip to another. The skin jobs, however, would be a whole other story because its 'organic memory transfer'.

That would not of worried cavil, he did not even want to be in a organic body anyway and probably would of jump at the chance of being transferred to a metal centurion.

[the fifth man]

That would not of worried cavil, he did not even want to be in a organic body anyway and probably would of jump at the chance of being transferred to a metal centurion.

Oh, most certainly. Cavil would have preferred that existence.

[Alan Wake]

I love the fact that one man can be responsible for creating the death for billions of people All because he couldn't let go.

He probably has a special spot saved for him at the devil's dinner table.

[Skydiver]

umm, you know, really, he's no different from Oppenheimer, who, using your definition, is responsible for the death of countless thousands by headlining the atomic bomb tests

i'm not sayig his actions weren't regrettable, but he's not evil. Neither of them were evil.

what the nazi's did was evil, they deliberately set out to murder millions, greystone and oppenheimer both created something that suceeded beyond their wildest imaginations and worst nightmares

dude isn't evil. and i think that can be one of the coolest aspects of his character, when/if he realizes what hes' done and he witnesses his creation taking on a life of its own and realizes that he can't control or call it back