Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2 (220)

[LoneStar1836]

was the cradel Sharons baby was in is the EXACT same one Baltar saw in his Vision back in Kolbol's last gleaming when 6 led him through the opera house and told him about ''their child''

I was thinking the same thing. Plus we saw it again in, I believe, "Valley of Darkness" when Baltar was walking through the forest.

[Craig Ranapia]

Okay, I registered just so I could say this:

This episode sucked. I am completely disappointed. The series was going so well. I have liked every single episode. But this travesty, this mockery is vomit-inducing to me. I'll watch the first episode of seaon three, and if this pathetic farce continues, I'll stop watching. I mean, this was like a bad fan-fiction given free rein to run amok. Yes, I feel that strongly about it.

Well, don't take this as snark because it isn't intended as such, but I'm really glad this episode is provoking such strong reactions. RDM could have followed the status quo ante of network television and come up with a big douche bag of pre-digested inoffensive pap you forget before the credits end. (Sorry, a world were anyone thinks Desperate Housewives is a deep exploration of post-feminist existential angst - as opposed to the campest night-time soap since Die-nasty went off the air - is well and truly stuck on stupid.) Instead he took a risk he knew was going to piss people off - hell, even his own fracking wife said on last week's podcast she hated LDYB 2 for two weeks until she got her head around it. Gee, we can't have anything that might actually challenge people a bit!

[kharn the betrayer]

I was thinking the same thing. Plus we saw it again in, I believe, "Valley of Darkness" when Baltar was walking through the forest.

now im thinking it would realy be interesting to see Baltar see that cradel and he immediatly recognizes it

[Mainer82]

but It's not a dream

they say through out the entire pod cast that its not a dream

and they realy do mean it considering the ammount of times they drill it into your head

and the whole reason they shot the last 30 min the way they did was to prove it wasnt a dream

That was my point, it's most likley not a dream due to the facts I stated.

[Craig Ranapia]

Admiral Adama goes into the tank when President Baltar gives him an order he doesn't agree with. "Our" [U]Admiral Adama never took orders he didn't like from Roslin; why would he now do that with Baltar???

Have we been watching the same show? Baltar most certainly has taken orders from Roslin he didn't personally agree with because she was the lawful and legitimate President of the Twelve Colonies and they made a deal at the end of the mini-series they agreed on a separation of powers between the civilian government and the military. When he breeched that agreement by staging a de facto military coup all he achieved was to split the fleet and place his best friend in a situation he was totally unable to handle.

Adama doesn't like or trust Gaius Baltar. But he does respect the rule of law and, like it or not, he is now the President of the Colonies.

[Chig]

I am going to have to say, before I log off;

great episode. I was entertained and blown away. I hope they don't make me wait until I am in a old folks home before they get to season 4. I'm getting too old for this err stuff.

October! Youre killing me!

[FerCryinOutLoud!]

Admiral Adama didn't necessarily run as much as he made a tactical retreat. (Also sometimes known as advancing in a new direction.)

[Backlash]

Well, don't take this as snark because it isn't intended as such, but I'm really glad this episode is provoking such strong reactions. RDM could have followed the status quo ante of network television and come up with a big douche bag of pre-digested inoffensive pap you forget before the credits end. (Sorry, a world were anyone thinks Desperate Housewives is a deep exploration of post-feminist existential angst - as opposed to the campest night-time soap since Die-nasty went off the air - is well and truly stuck on stupid.) Instead he took a risk he knew was going to piss people off - hell, even his own fracking wife said on last week's podcast she hated LDYB 2 for two weeks until she got her head around it. Gee, we can't have anything that might actually challenge people a bit!

I agree that most TV shows are insufferable drek, which is why I like this series. And I'm not one to shy away from a challenge. But there are better ways to do that. This went way beyond the pale, and I don't know if I can ever reconcile that enough to keep watching. Like I said, I'll watch the season 3 opener, and hopefully RDM will redeem himself in my eyes and I can continue watching this show. As it is now though, I'm only going to watch 3-1, and that's it.

[Wedo765]

Great Ending for the season, I personally am probably gonna lose my mind waiting till october...but still exactly what i expect from a season final. The best ones are the one where u can tell that the writers really had no idea how they where gonna resolve it next year.
First of all forget the rest of the episode all the way up to the nuke, Gina setting off the nuke was clearly a way for the cylons to locate the fleet once they got close enough, i'm think its all still part of there grand plan, and i think whether they relize it or not Six and Boomers plan still fits into whatever plan the cylons have always had. As for Helos Sharon i bet something happened to her concerning her despair over Hera, its no coincidence the last time we saw her was in the Brig talking to Helo, i'm thinking the Cavill models are long gone though probably out an airlock
If u assume the Cylon Hierarchy it working by age as some have specualted, 3 (D'anna Biers) higher up then 5 (Aron Doral) higher then 6 higher then 8 (Sharon Valeri) all lisibly younger then the one before them then Cavil is probably a 2 or maybe a 1 and it was interesting to see the higher up don't really believe in the Cylon God, could it be something the younger ones concocted to be more like there creators, if thats the case then really the Cylon plan has nothing to do with gods will at all, which throws a serious kink into Six and Boomers whole peace theory.
And people have brought up the Battlestars being under staffed, i'm thinking whereas now they are, in the beginning it was probably business as usual, fly the Cap, prepare the Alert Fighters, and be ready for Cylon attack, then after they where settled longer then they where running people started to give up and the Adamas started to grant them leave then settlement, and eventually everyone grew complacent...but not the Commander and the Admirl i'm betting they have, or atleast had some kind of a back up plan, i mean the fleet in orbit clearly had a jump already plotted incase of a cylon attack, and maybe at the end they seemed to believe they might be safe, but as soon as the Cylons showed up u could see that "I frakking knew it!" look on Apollo, Roslins, and the Admirls faces, they have a back up plan. As for leaving Caprica only to subjegate new Caprica, that falls under thing i can't even fathom an answer for, along with Leobens fasination with Starbuck, Helo Boomers Location, and what the other agents in the fleet did once in the nebula,
I'm thinking that if anything Starbuck, the Chief, Tigh and whoever else is on the surface will get as many people into the ships on the surface and get into orbit and jump, around the time that the Adamas back plan springs into action, but not everyone will escape...and i'm kinda hoping baltar gets left behind, this is his fault anyway
And finally did anyone notice some of the similariteis between the end of this episode and the Bryan Singer pilot that was never made?

[eclectro]

Actually the best theory yet (thanks to another forum, but I expand on it a little)
Possible spoilers(highlight to see):

The third season starts with Balter's head on the desk. He suddenly wakes up, and realizes he had a terrible nightmare about how they were found by the Ceylons on New Caprica.

This turns out to be a moment of epithany for Baltar and decides that the best course of action really is to continue on to Earth as before, as trying to habitate a planet with no infrastructure would be fraught with problems, and would leave them extremely vulnerable to a Ceylon attack like what he sees in his dream. Or maybe the connection between him and Number Six is found out and he is forced (or is convenient for his self-interests ) to abandon New Caprica and continue on.

I think this is the best fit - remember that the Ceylon priest said that they were going to stop persuing humans, in which case the finale of the Ceylons invading does not make much sense (unless he was lying). In any event, the idea of a dream to reel back the plot line would seem attractive to me.

Anyway, that's my take on it until I hear better.

[Astrofighter]

yea...oh wedo you spelled fruitcake wrong in your sig...

[LoneStar1836]

I think I’d rather continue living on a orbiting ship than live in that slop on the planet with that dreary, damp, cold weather, especially if a tent was the only thing available. Course the people aboard the ships that could land on New Caprica are lucky that they have a dry place to lay their heads. I wonder if that is what the general weather is like year round, considering they are living on a river delta area and that the planet wasn’t all that habitable to begin with, or did that just happen to be that planet’s winter season (considering it was cold when they filmed this in Vancouver).

So glad I haven’t watched the clips right after the title sequence this season, especially tonight. Seeing Cloud 9 blown up like that was a shock. I mean I knew Gina was going to blow up the nuke as the scene was unfolding, but I forgot which ship she was on.

Good episode. Not quite as gripping as KLG or Pegasus, but again it had some great character moments - Chief/Cally, Helo/Sharon, Adama/Roslin, Adama/Tigh, Roslin/Baltar. Poor Helo.

One minor thing I’ve been wanting to know is who is Baltar’s VP. Does he get to pick his VP or does the Quorum still have to vote on it. I was betting on seeing Zarek named VP. Though I wonder if Zarek would still want that position. Would he wield more power as VP or as a sitting quorum member?

[Neomon]

And finally did anyone notice some of the similariteis between the end of this episode and the Bryan Singer pilot that was never made?

Hahah, yes I did, I was going to see if anyone else mentioned that.Except...you know sped up by like twenty years.

[Craig Ranapia]

If u assume the Cylon Hierarchy it working by age as some have specualted, 3 (D'anna Biers) higher up then 5 (Aron Doral) higher then 6 higher then 8 (Sharon Valeri) all lisibly younger then the one before them then Cavil is probably a 2 or maybe a 1 and it was interesting to see the higher up don't really believe in the Cylon God, could it be something the younger ones concocted to be more like there creators, if thats the case then really the Cylon plan has nothing to do with gods will at all, which throws a serious kink into Six and Boomers whole peace theory.

Unless I missed something, Cavil never said he didn't believe in the Cylon God. He was perfectly honest with Galen Tyrol. Of course he thinks it's stupid and pointless to pray to the Colonial Gods - they're false idols and worshipping them is blasphemy. Especially where humanity is concerned - and Tyrol is all too human with no insight into himself or the universe he lifes in, no clarity ot purpose. Just all the darkness and ugliness that must be purged from the universe.

Here's how Leoben Conoy puts it to Starbuck in the season one episode Flesh and Bone:

Leoben - I am more than you could ever imagine. I am god.
Starbuck - ( Stifles laugh ) I'm sorry, you're god? Wow... nice to meet ya. That's good, that's good. We'll give you a couple of minutes for that.
Leoben – It's funny, isn't it? We're all god, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together.
Starbuck - Love? You don't even know what the word means.
Leoben - I know that god loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons.
Starbuck - The gods had nothing to do with it. We created you... us. It was a stupid, fraked-up decision and we have paid for it. You slaughtered my entire civilization ! That is sin ! That is evil, and you are evil.
Leoben - Am I? I see the truths that float past you in the stream.

Ironically, both Tyrol and Starbuck are deeply religious, but they've caused profound damage to themselves and others because their gods (their false idols, as far as the Cylons are concerned) can't help them when they can't even face up to the truth about themselves. Of course, the problem with Caprica-Six and Hero-Sharon is that they're turning the same question back on The Cylon. "If God is truly Love, how can we possibly justify what we have done? Haven't we denied God every bit as much as the humans we despise?" And I suspect the answers are going to profoundly affect both races in season three.

[FNH USA P90]

Even if Adama has a plan, I don't think it matters. If all of those basestars were in fact real and not a hallucination, then even with a special plan, the bucket and the beast will still be extremely outnumbered and undermanned. Barring Cylon collusion, humanity is trully fracked and no theory can save them.