Home, Part 2 (207)

[Easter Lily]

People should really listen to the podcasts, they answer a lot of the questions people have asked here (even if you can't listen to the podcast and watch the episode). The writers don't really have an explanation for how Sharon knew that, but the impression I got from the podcast was she has been completely honest.

Sure they don't know... Why put it in there then? Call me cynical. but methinks someone's doing a Joe Mallozzi... doing the slight of hand, that is...
I have read it but I understood him to mean that no one at this stage knows... but he is still foreshadowing something.
While CapricaSharon might believe that she's honest, it doesn't mean though that she is completely free of the restraints of cylon programming. And that "and you ask me why...?" doesn't exactly inspire confidence that she's been entirely forthcoming.

[Talisman]

Speaking of finding and locating earth... I think it is fairly certain from what Six says to Baltar that the cylons are using the fleet to find earth and the goal appears to be seeing its destruction also. This makes me wonder if they will actually find earth and ask for sanctuary or find earth and then return to Caprica. So it is possible for them to find earth but never actually go there.

If I remember correctly in BSG 1980 when they discover that Earth hasn't evolved and is in no position to defend itself against the Cylons they have two choices, lead the Cylons away from Earth or upgrade Earth's technology and they chose the latter.

[Easter Lily]

If I remember correctly in BSG 1980 when they discover that Earth hasn't evolved and is in no position to defend itself against the Cylons they have two choices, lead the Cylons away from Earth or upgrade Earth's technology and they chose the latter.

Ssssssssshhhhhhh... we mustn't mention that one...

I actually liked it... but I was like 11...

[LoneStar1836]

There are issues, of course, and the writers admit it. There’s not one spot on Earth where a person could look up and see all 12 classical Zodiac constellations at the exact same time, at the same basic declination in the sky. But that’s hardly the point. The point is that Earth is the planet where the constellations would, when seen from that point in space, look as they do in the hologram. From that perspective, it works.

And that’s what I took away from it so I didn’t have any problem with the way they presented them. It wasn’t meant to be an exact representation of our night sky at any particular moment. If it were, I guess I’m standing in the wrong spot to see the Lagoon Nebula that close up.

I wish it was this clear-cut, but they still could be on a parallel course to us. Remember in the time of Plato, the "society" was polytheistic. He was also the one who thought an ideal society should be devided into 12 tribes, with each having their own guardian/patron god etc. So what if the 12 tribes went over to Kobol back then, for whatever reason and via whatever mean?

It was the GIANT ALIEEENNNNSS.

Posting the whole conversation for reference below.

Roslin: Again the ancient symbols. These patterns... were on the original flags of the 12 colonies back in the days when the colonies were called by their ancient names: Aries... Taurus... Gemini... Cancer... Leo... Libra... Virgo.
Adama: The jewels match the constellations.
Apollo: this is the map-- this is the map to Earth.
Adama: Maybe. So is Earth in one of these constellations?
Starbuck: We're standing on it. We're standing on Earth. The scriptures say that when the 13th tribe landed on Earth, they looked up into the heavens and they saw their 12 brothers.
Roslin: Earth is the place where you can look up in the sky and see the constellations of the 12 colonies.
Starbuck: I don't know what good it's gonna do us though. I mean, what are we supposed to do? Search the entire galaxy for one particular star pattern?
Apollo: There. There in Scorpio. I've seen that before. It's the Lagoon nebula.
Adama: Astro body M8.. That's a long way from here.
Apollo: Yeah. But at least now we have a map and a direction.

I tried to think of something simpler to explain the cross-pollination of the constellations than the idea that somehow Earth is the original homeworld after all. What if the 12 tribes on Kobol already had the constellation names and star patterns associated with them so the ones who went to earth picked out some similar star patterns and gave them those names to remember them by. I figured that if you look at the sky long enough you can draw just about any ol’ pattern you want and thus make an existing pattern of stars on some distant planet (such as Kobol) fit a pattern of stars seen from Earth.

I’m guessing that the 13 tribes all had names when they lived on Kobol. I’m basing that on Roslin’s first lines above. The fact that the 12 Colonies once went by “their ancient names” implies to me that they at least already had those tribal names on Kobol and thus possibly already had the different flags associated with them.

But……then the thing with the star patterns being on the flags because they were patterns seen from Kobol is blown out of the water with Starbuck’s statement, “I don't know what good it's gonna do us though. I mean, what are we supposed to do? Search the entire galaxy for one particular star pattern?” If the patterns were originally seen from Kobol, they wouldn’t have to look any farther than out the nearest window of Galactica to see them. But I still think the names of the constellations carried over from Kobol just not the star patterns.

So how in Hades did those freakin’ constellations get on the flags? A) Humans originated on Earth to begin with and brought that knowledge with them when they came to Kobol. B) Once the 13 tribe arrived on earth and had their little commemoration ceremony, someone flew all the way back to Kobol, racking up some serious frequent flyer miles, built the Tomb of Athena and then went around to all the colonies and convinced them to use these nifty star patterns on their colony’s flag. And thus that’s also why the Colonials eventually recorded that action of naming the constellations on earth in the scriptures. Because if someone didn’t physically come back, then my only other explanation is that C) an all-knowing god or gods directed someone to build the Tomb with the map leading to earth and “inspired” someone to record in the scriptures the actions of what the people on earth had done with the whole naming bit as well as get them to adopt those flags. I say someone had to physically come back, if it wasn’t the doing of the god(s), because I don’t think the world of Galactica has sub-space communication abilities, so someone on earth isn’t just going to relay a message back to Kobol, etc. to keep in touch.

Something else……If people fled in the direction of Earth, how the heck did they even know where it was? Who told them? The gods? It’s obviously a much greater distance from Kobol than the 12 Colonies. I’m not just going to embark on some crazy *** journey into deep space unless I know where I’m going. It seems the majority consensus was to head towards where the colonies are now so I’m guessing they knew those planets existed.

Ugh. My brain hurts and half of my post makes no sense. Forget that supposed toss away line of "and you ask why" by Boomer. That I completely get and can pretty much grasp, but this benign thing with the flags has me puzzled. I just need to stop even thinking about that stuff and just go with the flow of the show and hope the answers to such questions will eventually be known.

[Pryito]

People should really listen to the podcasts, they answer a lot of the questions people have asked here (even if you can't listen to the podcast and watch the episode). The writers don't really have an explanation for how Sharon knew that, but the impression I got from the podcast was she has been completely honest.

You need an ipod to listen to the podcast? I do not own one, cant afford one, have no idea how to get the podcast without and ipod.

[Agent_Dark]

You need an ipod to listen to the podcast? I do not own one, cant afford one, have no idea how to get the podcast without and ipod.

Nah, its a just a simple mp3 file that you download. Windows Media Player will play it fine.

[Talisman]

So how in Hades did those freakin’ constellations get on the flags? A) Humans originated on Earth to begin with and brought that knowledge with them when they came to Kobol.

That is the answer that makes the most sense.

I think there were originally 12 tribes which came to Kobol from Earth, they would have brought the star map and zodiac names with them. Then something bad happened and the tribes decided to flee Kobol and create the 12 colonies. Prior to their departure a group made up of people from each of the tribes decided that rather than go and create new homes they were going to return home to Earth and so created the 13th tribe.

[FeloniousMonk]

Another possibility is that Earth had already been explored by the people of Kobol long before the exodus. Think of it this way; life started on Kobol and eventually humans were capable of spaceflight. The first habitable planet they find they named Earth. Over the years exploratory missions were sent back and forth and during that time another 12 planets were found near each other.

Then something happens to make them all get the hell out of Dodge. Before all the tribes split up they agree to leave a marker telling future generations how to get to Earth. From the missions to Earth they saw the constellations and decided to use them to mark the colonies.

[Talisman]

The baby shouldn’t make an appearance until after the presidential election, I’d guess, which is still another 20 plus episodes away if the average 20 episode season covers about 3 months BSG time, so about this time next year they ought to be getting into all the political wrangling of the election since the six months would be up for Roslin’s term. Course if they don’t find some miracle cure for her, she should also be dead/dying about this time next year……which I don’t see happening because her character is so crucial to the show. I could see the writers killing her off before the show ends (which I hope isn’t anytime soon), but wow that would be such a loss.

The baby will be making an appearance very soon, around the time of the midseason break I reckon.

In "The Farm" episode, we learned that the Cylons have been unable to get a feutus to survive. Extremely premature babies are known to survive from 18 weeks, the chances of survival aren't great (10-15%) but if the feutus has survived in the womb until 24 weeks the chances of survival are 50%. I'm not sure how long Caprica Sharon is pregnant but she must be coming close to the time when her body rejects the feutus.

Possible plot line: Extremely premature hybrid baby is born by emergency section and the cylons send a few Basestar ships to collect the prize.

[LoneStar1836]

I considered that – her having an extremely premature baby, but I thought maybe the writers would try to drag it out a little longer rather than end the pressing conflict they had with the divided fleet and then jump right into having this physical Cylon baby to deal with. Drag it out a little and build up some tension among people as to what this thing might be once she has it and whether or not it and Sharon should be allowed to live. Speculation for the next episode

Spoiler:

It looks like someone tries to either kill Sharon or the baby. So it’s possible that that will expedite her having the baby. But I just don’t think we are going to see the baby yet. I’m thinking they are going to hold off a little longer…at least till some time well into the second half of this season. Possibly having this season end with the birth of the baby....but then I'm just guessing.

About the Cylon babies not being able to develop. Supposedly that is what the whole “love” issue is about with her and Helo or that’s what I thought anyway. To me that implied that in Sharon’s case, her chances of producing a baby and having a successful pregnancy are greatly increase with this “love” factor. That’s why all other attempts at breeding were failing.

Possible plot line: Extremely premature hybrid baby is born by emergency section and the cylons send a few Basestar ships to collect the prize.

Baltar seems to be so intertwined with this baby…at least according to Six….that I’m thinking the Cylons want this baby, once born, to reside on Galactica. For what reasons, I have no idea.

Another possibility is that Earth had already been explored by the people of Kobol long before the exodus. Think of it this way; life started on Kobol and eventually humans were capable of spaceflight. The first habitable planet they find they named Earth. Over the years exploratory missions were sent back and forth and during that time another 12 planets were found near each other.

Then something happens to make them all get the hell out of Dodge. Before all the tribes split up they agree to leave a marker telling future generations how to get to Earth. From the missions to Earth they saw the constellations and decided to use them to mark the colonies.

I like that idea better, at least in a more logical sense.

[chyron]

I was under the impression that they weren't actually transported to earth, that they were still in the tomb but there was some sort of hologram. The door slammed shut to make it nice and dark, and I figure that a giant hologram is a little more logical than some mystical, completely unexplained transportation device.

What bothers me is that they didn't encounter any more Cylon ambushes on the way to the tomb. A couple landmines and 2-3 centurions are all that's guarding the path? And especially after the first fight in part 1, I would think any Cylons in the area would have heard the commotion and come to check on things.

You scheme like a human, not a Cylon. What if the Cylons are using them to find the path to Earth to ensure that the remnants of mankind are wiped from the galaxy?

[chyron]

What if the Cylons have been playing of the Colonials religion and made the tomb to show then the way to Earth because maybe it's not realy Earth its leading them to but the Cylonh home world or a huge Cylon force to wipe them out.

Why go through all of the effort?

[Gargen]

Hmm why not just have the huge cylon force on cobol and wipe them out there lol

[chyron]

This notion of the constellations is something that I came up with. I wanted to connect it to our present day mythology of the zodiac. The show is replete with symbols and references to zodiacal things. Somehow, these names for these Colonies are not random, there is a connection, and here's the connection. That these people of the thirteenth tribe looked up into the sky and made up these constellations and assigned them to their brethren, the lost tribes.

I think that someone else pointed this out, or alluded to it...
There *HAD* to be travel either 1 person or a group between KOBAL, EARTH and the planets of the colonies. How else would the legend of Earth exist in the religion of the colonies? How else would the map exist on KOBAL?
I'm thinking that the 13th colony was the first to leave and then someone (or persons or things) returned to that region of space. He/she/it either returned to Kobal prior to the departure of the other 12 or afterward and figured out where the 12 went to. This of course raised the question as to who buildt the tomb of Athena - complete with the map, and what happened so that there was nothing in the colonies about the location of Earth. Still assuming that someone/thing returned from Earth.

[Kazper]

I wish it was this clear-cut, but they still could be on a parallel course to us. Remember in the time of Plato, the "society" was polytheistic. He was also the one who thought an ideal society should be devided into 12 tribes, with each having their own guardian/patron god etc. So what if the 12 tribes went over to Kobol back then, for whatever reason and via whatever mean?

Inquiring mind wants to know ...

Ohhh - the Atlanteans went to Kobol

Anyway the only reasonable explanation for the constellations on the colony flags are that Earth was the original planet from whence the "12 tribes" went to Kobol and then later went on from there. That would also explain the (presumably) divergent religious beliefs and differing tech levels between Earth and the 12 colonies (if we assume this is more or less present time for Earth, which it might not be, but would make for the best drama IMHO).

Oh and I'd really be surprised if Baltar is a Cylon. As someone else said he is all too human in his shortcomings and his failings. There is not one even semi-solid reason to think he's a cylon. Each and every action of his is fully explainable as both insanity and/or actually being seduced by Six. I'm pretty sure that's the real delicate balance the writers want to keep - is he really talking to Six or is he just completely insane. Not "is he a Cylon or not" - that would just be too simplistic for this show.