Home, Part 2 (207)

[SGalisa]

Wow. A Baltar episode I actually liked for once. Makes the ethereal Six more tangible, and better explains the whole Shelly Godfrey spiritual episode that examined Baltar's spiritual faith aspects. (She did make a hint to his faith factor in the beginning of that particular episode, which was reinforced at the end.)

So, the cylons are aiming to believe in one "God" rather than the many - whom the majority of the (Galactica storyline) humans believe, or give tribute ("personal thanks") to?

Boomer # 2's reactions surprised me, but I've come to expect something opposite from whatever the preview commercials tease about; so it wasn't a total shocker.

[LoneStar1836]

It’s going to be really interesting to see how Tigh reacts to Adama's new acceptance of Roslin in future episodes. We also see that a lot of the military agree with Tigh's point of view.

Yeah, it will be, though I don’t think Tigh will put up much of an argument. Maybe just some snippy remarks here and there. Now that this whole arrow thing is behind them, I’d guess there is much more room for cooperation between the military and the government because they really do now have a common goal that seems tangible. Before it was “common” but each had a different plan to find it, though admittedly Adama really didn’t have a plan to find Earth other than to wander aimlessly through space in hopes of finding somewhere, anywhere to start a new life. I’m guessing the biggest source of conflict now will come in the form of what to do with Sharon and her baby – keep them or space them - and all the ethical issues involved.

I can see why Tigh wasn’t in the mood to welcome her back, but I think the other military people were probably wondering “Well should we really get all excited about having her back? The Old Man tossed her and we’re supposed to support him so maybe we shouldn’t give her a really enthusiastic welcome back because it might give him the wrong impression that we thought he was wrong.” Them kind of playing both sides of the fence. But then Adama’s steely-eyed glare with the look of “you better clap damn it and mean it or I’ll rip your arms off” reassured them it was okay to be happy that she was back and that the fleet was back together.

I'm sure there is much more to this Boomer than we have seen so far. However I don't think the writers will "kill" this Boomer model off because there would be no way to successfully introcude another one into the story line, and I don't think that they want to get rid of this character any time soon.

I totally agree. I mean technically she can always be “replaced” and thus the actress can stay employed on the show, but any other copy is nowhere as interesting or provides us with a sympathetic character because they are just copies. Just giving them the memories of our two Sharons doesn’t really compel me to feel for them like I do these two…well now one. Plus she’s got to have that baby, and if HumanCylon physiology is the same as human physiology then the gestation period for her baby shouldn’t be accelerated. I wouldn’t think. She’s not going to be having that baby next week.....I hope.

The baby shouldn’t make an appearance until after the presidential election, I’d guess, which is still another 20 plus episodes away if the average 20 episode season covers about 3 months BSG time, so about this time next year they ought to be getting into all the political wrangling of the election since the six months would be up for Roslin’s term. Course if they don’t find some miracle cure for her, she should also be dead/dying about this time next year……which I don’t see happening because her character is so crucial to the show. I could see the writers killing her off before the show ends (which I hope isn’t anytime soon), but wow that would be such a loss.

Adama is the man! I don't think he really acknowledges the President's position. He is only supporting her to accomplish his goal of reuniting the fleet.

I agree that him taking her back is mainly due to him realizing that the fleet could not survive (emotionally) if divided, but I do think his disdain for her actions has dissipated considerably. I think he’ll probably go back to about the same power position that they were at before. He’s not going to bow down to her every instruction, but he will accept that she is once again legitimately in charge of at least the civilian portion of the fleet. I think he came to terms that they were both wrong in their decisions and he had to be the better man and try to set things straight and get over his petty emotional anger, but I don’t think Roslin regrets what she did. Notice how she didn’t say “well I forgive you for deposing me” and feeling that there was no need for her to be forgiven because she had done nothing wrong (only him – at least that’s how I interpreted that) – she only did what needed to be done in her eyes, consequences be damned.

Adama won’t be any more accepting of her authority than he was before, but I don’t think it will be considerably less. (At least not how Zarek was intending on using her as a puppet to control “his” dream fleet.) He’ll still vehemently argue that he should make all military decisions. Her finding this “map” hasn’t elevated her that much in his eyes, I don’t think, but I guess we’ll see. He seems to be a practical guy so I think he’ll still remain uneasy about her claims to see visions and that she thinks she’s some kind of prophet. I can’t see him jumping on the religious bandwagon, even if she was right about the arrow and Kobol. But I do think he’ll go back to giving her the same level of respect he had before for her, if not just a little more since he realizes that he does owe his life to her and more importantly his son’s – or at least that brings it back up to par. I think they've gone back to seeing each other as equals......partners in this journey. Maybe even moreso on Adama's part.

I still would've liked to see a definite answer as to what happened in the tomb. It's unlikely they were transported anywhere but the grass around them seemed far too real to be an illusion. They didn't even mention it; Cloud 9 has actual trees and plants, the illusion there is just the sunlight and the horizon created by the dome, everything else is genuine. We're supposed to assume the technology on Kobol can recreate matter as well?

It would've been nice to get at least some kind of comment on it.

Well they didn’t really physically interact with any of the surroundings (I don’t think) so I can buy that it was all a visual illusion – even the grass. Where they were standing the grass was all beaten down so no one had any cause to walk through the tall stuff and actually touch it.

As far as how they got out of there. *shrug* The illusion was on a timer maybe. Personally I don’t care. I guess a comment would have been nice, but I’ll leave it up to my imagination.

What fascinates me is the fact that somehow information that is only valid and visible to people who are physically standing on Earth made it’s way to Kobol. That I really want to know about. At any other position in space, outside our solar system, the constellations are not going to look the same when you look up at the sky because they are star patterns unique to us. So people standing on Kobol are not going to see our constellations move across their night sky as the planet rotates. Stars in the constellations are all at varying distances from Earth and their brightness is relative to our perspective from Earth. (I’m trying to recall some of what I learned 5 yrs ago in my college astronomy class…..so don’t quote me cause it’s quite possible I’m very wrong….)

Which is why I’m leaning towards the idea that the Colonials are all decedents from Earth that traveled to Kobol bringing with them their knowledge of the constellations (since the 12 colonies later adopted these constellations and their names from the old home world [Earth] once they splintered off from Kobol. Otherwise how would they know what the constellations looked like and were called if the 13th tribe fleeing Kobol only created them in remembrance of the other 12 tribes.) Some how society evolved into a polytheistic society on Kobol, whatever happened happened causing people to abandon Kobol and some of them returned to Earth leaving behind a vague way of finding them. Which then would put the setting of this show in the very distant future.

Eh, I don’t know. I just don’t see how images from Earth could be on Kobol unless someone had actually been to earth and seen them. I guess this will eventually be worked into the “all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again” mantra. I just hope Moore and Eick have a half way sane explanation for most everything on this show and don't just chalk it all up to magic or something.

[FeloniousMonk]

yeah, it would really get on my nerves if they took the lazy route of "let the audience come up with their own explanation" as we all experienced in the final Matrix movie

[Easter Lily]

Dunno. Sharon's remark did appear to be a direct reference to Adama's meltdown over Boomer's body in the morgue. Very creepy, btw. So I don't now how to *handwave* that Sharon eemed clueless about Boomer's fate in her later conversation with Helo. But I also don't understand how the Cylons "absorb" the memories of the Cylons who die. On Caprica, Sharon knew of Leoben's confrontation with Starbuck - "Leoben told you you were special". Maybe all those flashbacks we saw during the struggle weren't Adama's memories - maybe they were an information packet being sent to Sharon. She's only getting bits and pieces. Either that or 1) Sharon was lying to Helo later (don't think so) 2) she's more of a tool of the Cylons than she thinks she is (very possible) or 3) plot hole.

I'm not convinced that she isn't a tool of the cylons in spite of all her claims to autonomy... She might like to think that she's independent of programming/control and that she's doing it all for "lurrrrve" but she cannot be sure. No one can. At least someone has the sense to put her in the brig. Whatever the situation is, they all seem to be playing into the Cylon's hands at this point in time. That remark she made about, "And you wonder why?" as well as that steely look she gave saying it, rang all manner of alarm bells.
I hate to say it but Helo's not the most discerning fish in the sea. And I found their conversation about the child-that-is-yet-to-born somewhat cringeworthy. Well, okay... I have a deeply suspicious nature but I think he's too accepting. Also I can't help agreeing with Lee even if he was being rather bratty about the Helo/Sharon pairing.

Speaking of Cylons - all the Baltar/Six stuff was fascinating. If there's no chip is there another way that Baltar could be wired? I'm back to thinking he's a Cylon.

Yeah... just when you think it's safe to eliminate him from the cylon suspect list... they throw a spanner in the works and you have to think again.

[Cikak]

To the people wondering how Sharon knew that, according to the podcast they don't have an explanation for that

[Blade Runner]

To the people wondering how Sharon knew that, according to the podcast they don't have an explanation for that

Yup, they are going to let us ponder that one for a while

[Liebestraume]

Cool that they used an actual existing nebula, yet they kept the exact same name (Lagoon Nebula) and Messier designation of M8 and being in the constellation Sagittarius – The Archer. (But they flubbed and had Lee place it in the constellation Scorpius unless that was some how intentional.) On that note, what would Sagittarius be doing with Apollo’s arrow? Doesn’t he have his own? ...

Tee Hee! That's what I'd like to know, too. And the following comments by DE from the podcast (thanks, larocque6689 )

Sagittarian has this prominent arrow and there was this whole mythological story which goes along with his father and why the arrow was bestowed upon him. So it seemed like, well, if the arrow is the thing, then if you put it back in Sagittarius' bow, it is the trigger that gets you to the map of Earth. (DE)

The only connection I can see here is that, supposedly, Sagittarius' arrow points to Antares, the heart of Scorpius, and that the center of Milky Way is somewhere in that neighborhood. (I say "supposedly" because any minute now an astromony major is going to come along and correct me. )

But what's this "mythological story" of his father and the arrow? There seems to be some confusion as to whom/what Sagittarius was supposed to be. I've heard it was supposed to represent Cheiron, a famous mythical figure sired by Cronus (a Stargate connection?), but then I've also heard Cheiron is actually the constellation Centaurus.

If Sagittarius = Cheiron, then at least there would be some connection to Apollo; except they were not father-son but cousins of sorts. Cheiro was a great teacher, so Apollo entrusted one of his mortal sons to Cheiro's care (and much petty greek gods' bickering ensued.) That's about all I can come up with.

Which is why I’m leaning towards the idea that the Colonials are all decedents from Earth that traveled to Kobol bringing with them their knowledge of the constellations (since the 12 colonies later adopted these constellations and their names from the old home world [Earth] once they splintered off from Kobol. Otherwise how would they know what the constellations looked like and were called if the 13th tribe fleeing Kobol only created them in remembrance of the other 12 tribes.) Some how society evolved into a polytheistic society on Kobol, whatever happened happened causing people to abandon Kobol and some of them returned to Earth leaving behind a vague way of finding them. Which then would put the setting of this show in the very distant future.

I wish it was this clear-cut, but they still could be on a parallel course to us. Remember in the time of Plato, the "society" was polytheistic. He was also the one who thought an ideal society should be devided into 12 tribes, with each having their own guardian/patron god etc. So what if the 12 tribes went over to Kobol back then, for whatever reason and via whatever mean?

Inquiring mind wants to know ...

[Pryito]

Adama Choking Sharon "and you asked why". Gave me chills.

This freaked me out as well, being that when he said it to Sharon in the morgue, she was DEAD!

[LordHart]

A few things about this episode were great. The confrontation between Adama and Boomer was great, and the "and you asked why?" statement to him, with his reaction to it. There is something odd going on there.

But definately, the best part of the episode was Baltars response to Doc Cottles statement about him being crazy, and Baltar pops his head up, looks at him in the red light with his manic wide eyes, and states "i'm not crazy!", looking anything but crazy... brilliant.

[FeloniousMonk]

why do people keep saying "a stargate connection"?

There is no crossover and there never will be one, any name used in BSG that happens to be used for a goauld is there because both shows draw from human mythology. There's no connection between the two shows.

[entil2001]

Before the second season aired, Ron Moore made an interesting comment. Essentially, he commented that the first season should have been 20 episodes (at the very least), and that as a result, the first third of the second season would play out as if it were the rest of the first season. I have to say that I completely agree. As much as the first season finale ended things on a high note, it was really the end of a complication phase of a much larger arc; this season has been all about the resolution of everything that happened in “Kobol’s Last Gleaming”.

A ton of plot threads reach their momentary end in this episode. On the plot side of the fence, there’s the culmination of the search for the Tomb of Athena. I find it interesting that the writers kept all these pieces in the air without really knowing how it would play out, beyond some general sense of direction. For all that doubt regarding how the puzzle would come together, it works very well.

There are issues, of course, and the writers admit it. There’s not one spot on Earth where a person could look up and see all 12 classical Zodiac constellations at the exact same time, at the same basic declination in the sky. But that’s hardly the point. The point is that Earth is the planet where the constellations would, when seen from that point in space, look as they do in the hologram. From that perspective, it works.

I do wonder, however, how this was supposed to make sense. Earth is supposed to be the lost 13th colony. So how would the constellations, as seen from Earth, end up on Kobol? Was Earth once still in contact with the homeworld, before things all fell apart? I can’t remember if that was established in the mini-series or the first season, but it struck me as a possible continuity issue. (I’ll be pleased if someone can correct me if I’m wrong, since I can’t seem to find the information right now.)

It’s incidental, however, because it gives them a general direction, without promising that the journey will be successful. After all, Boomer made it very clear that the Cylons know all about the scriptures and prophecies of the Colonists, perhaps even better than the Colonists do (not hard to imagine). Sounds to me like the Cylons might have taken the search for Earth into account after all.

There’s been plenty of evidence to suggest that the Cylons wanted to keep some small population around, and that they’ve avoided the deathblow that would wipe the Colonists out. Certainly their resources should be big enough by now! So why let the Colonists get this far, beyond the breeding experiments? What if the Cylons are using the Colonists to locate Earth? After all, the Colonists want to end the human race, and Earth would have humans on it (or so one would assume). So wouldn’t the Cylons want to wipe those humans out, too?

Six mentioned to Baltar that he was meant to lead humanity to Earth, but that he would be the last to survive. That would fit into this “Cylons want to wipe out Earth” theory rather well. A lot of what Six does in this episode is about breaking down Baltar’s growing resistance to her influence, ensuring that he can continue to act on their behalf, the ultimate sleeper agent. (It is wrong to think that Tricia actually looks even more attractive in civvies?)

Character is key in storytelling, and as usual, Adama and Roslyn provide some wonderful fireworks in the dramatic arena. They finally come to an understanding, and the human race is all the better for it. The challenge, of course, will be dealing with the rifts within the population that the two of them initially created and fostered. Adama’s emotionalism and Roslyn’s faux-religious stance could very well undermine their authority, once the masses begin to question it.

A lot of agendas are left unspoken and unrevealed. Who knows what Boomer is up to? Would Helo follow her into the fire, if her agenda is still aligned with her people? I like Boomer (and lust for Grace Park), so I hope that she sticks around and turns out to be a human sympathizer. Even so, I loved Adama’s reaction to her presence, and how it’s going to twist the knife in the gut of Galactica’s crew for her to be there. And then there’s Zarek, who seems to be gaining more sympathetic character traits by the minute.

Part of me is worried that a less serialized run of episodes will follow, and that some of the momentum of excellence will be lost in the process. I have faith in the writers, but the weakest episodes of the first season were more self-contained. While some might have found this two-part story to be stretched thin (and it was, according to the producers and writers), I reveled in the chance to see more in-depth character development. Hopefully, with the true beginning of the second season, we’ll see that continue.

[FeloniousMonk]

What if the Cylons are using the Colonists to locate Earth?

What if the Cylons already found it?

And what if finding Earth is the reason they wiped out the Colonies?

[Bl4de]

I think Billy will be president after Roslin, anyone else thinking the same thing?

Everything else surrounding the religion, Sharon's knowledge "beyond your scriptures" as she put it, etc. are all too confusing to think about.. according to the Cylons they believe the gods that the Colonials worship were probably real people with no extraordinary abilities, or maybe aliens of some sort.. then they believe in their own god which is starting to become more apparent with Number 6 not being some cylon trickery and her knowledge of future events. It's just way too confusing.. I hope they resolve all the questions. It hurts my mind to even think about the whole "it's happened before and will happen again" thing, it reminded me of the Matrix plot and how badly that went downhill.

Oh yeah, I can't wait for some more Viper action, I'm sure Starbuck and Apollo are itching to get in the cockpit. Which makes me think about the lack of attacks.. the cylons used to attack every so and so minutes, now there hasn't been an attack since like what, kobol's last gleaming 2?

[Cikak]

People should really listen to the podcasts, they answer a lot of the questions people have asked here (even if you can't listen to the podcast and watch the episode). The writers don't really have an explanation for how Sharon knew that, but the impression I got from the podcast was she has been completely honest.

[Agent_Dark]

People should really listen to the podcasts, they answer a lot of the questions people have asked here (even if you can't listen to the podcast and watch the episode). The writers don't really have an explanation for how Sharon knew that, but the impression I got from the podcast was she has been completely honest.

See, thats kinda poor story telling - People having to listen to a Podcast to get the full info on whats happening in the story. And just because the writers don't know, doesn't mean that there is no explanation as to why it happened in the BSG universe...