Fragged (203)

[LoneStar1836]

He was drunk as a skunk too when they had that little exchange that was instigated by Ellen. She’s had a history of cheating on Tigh so even suggesting the possibility that Adama might be making the moves on her was enough to get Tigh riled.

Ellen is a big factor in what happen in Fragged. She’s the little devil whispering in Tigh’s ear every time you turn around. And a plastered Tigh just make him even more malleable. Makes me want to slap Tigh for being so stupid and weak.

I agree that the Commander should have never gone after the President like he did. He didn’t like her exercising that kind of control over him (coercing Starbuck) thus he then acted impulsively (as to say Who does this woman think she is? I'll show her.) without really considering the repercussions. He should have handled that differently, but then he wouldn’t have this lovely situation to wake up to when he eventually comes around.

ETA:

How ironic that it turned out to be Baltar that killed Crash since it was Crash that saved him from the burning Raptor in KLG.

And another random thought. Interesting word play with Tigh’s name. His overwhelming characteristic is his drinking. Then you have the saying “tie one on” which means to go on a drinking spree. Well, I think Tigh really tied one on in this episode.

Yes, I’m very slow on the uptake.

[LordHart]

I just wanted to point out to everyone that what Crashdown did was what he is supposed to do when someone will not follow an order. It is their duty to do what he says whilst he is in charge, no matter what the situation looks like. Callie not following his order caused him to draw his weapon to get her moving, so they could continue their already set plan.

Although going after the dish would have been the safest option when they saw the other two Cylon Centurions, to deviate from their plan, going into a situation they didn't know about rather than one they had planned for and could adjust to the new situation easily would have been the worst option. They didn't know if Baltar had screwed up his lookout post or not, so there could have been 5 Cylons down at the Missile Battery, and 2 up at the Dish. The only thing they could have done was do the original plan.

If Callie was enlisted and had a military rank, she could be courtmartialled for dis-obeying orders (though, they didn't even tell them how Crashdown died, so I doubt they would tell them what happened with him and Callie).

[dec55]

Basically Callie's insabordination got Crash murdered. And could have got everyone killed. Crash really didn't have a choice in what he did. Adama probably would have done the same thing.

[plot mechanic]

Being old enough to remember the Vietnam War, when the term "fragging" entered public awareness, I made a point to watch this episode. The breakdown in discipline in Vietnam that led to numerous instances of fragging arose from several causes, obviously. The US was losing the war. The war itself had no justification. Conscription was unfair. As near as I can tell, soldiers targeted officers who wanted to engage in combat just to make themselves a good record for their careers.

I can't say the episode was much good. The reasons why follow, at unfortunate length. The short version is that the plotting is arbitrary, while there is no real point besides sensationalism.

Despite the title, the episode sheds no light on the Vietnam experience, or any other. Indeed, technically, there is no fragging, unless for some reason you actually believe Baltar should be under orders. The chief might have fragged the lieutenant but Baltar shot first. The lieutenant is written as wrong but it is also written as not his fault.

One, the first task upon discovering the missiles was to warn any searchers that there was a Cylon presence. Turning the transponder on and off would do the trick. Or, in a self sacrificing action, just turning it off, in effect saying, too dangerous.

Two, the coincidence of sonic booms just as the attack is about to launch is rather convenient. This means that the lieutenant can reasonably conclude that there is no time left to recheck the guards on the radar dish, motivating the final crisis. How can the chief can possibly know that there is in fact time? Why do the searchers zoom overhead at supersonic speed, anyhow? If it is to take a quick peek at an area where enemies may be present, doesn't that mean that there is a reasonable chance the Cylon trap wouldn't work regardless? If the chief is sensible, why doesn't he point this out? At any rate, the girl freezes up when ordered to carry out the battle plan. In many militaries, it would be the lieutenant's duty to compel her obedience to orders or execute her out of hand. What is crazy is the idea of shooting someone while in earshot of the Cylons! The thing is, why didn't the chief say this? The lieutenant was quite obviously reluctant to shoot her. Plus, the chief went out of his way to give a lecture on following orders regardless earlier.

Three, when Baltar shoots the lieutenant, naturally the Cylons attack. Now, the episode shows the group, without the advantage of surprise and with one fewer soldier not just holding off the Cylon attack but successfully attacking the radar dish. If this is believable, so is the lieutenant's idea about attacking the Cylons! Incidentally, earlier dialogue says that the missiles are just point and shoot, without a guidance system, so it's not quite certain why the radar is needed anyhow. By the way, "kg" is a unit of mass, not frequency. This error is embarrassing for middle school students! At any rate, if the radar dish is needed, why wouldn't the Cylons guard it? The episode seems to think that Baltar's shooting of the lieutenant is the betrayal predicted by Six, motivated by Baltar's cowardly desire to save his own skin from the failure of the lieutenant's deranged plan. Except, that shooting the gun does not save Baltar's skin but risk it, because it alerts the Cylons. It is past peculiar that Baltar, despite his blatant cowardice, never asks Six about how he personally might be saved from other Cylons: Such an oversight is just bad characterization.

Four, there is no way that Six could have predicted the betrayal, even if you think the betrayal could be the girl's cowardice or the lieutenant's plan, since Baltar's action was a response to these unpredictable events. Baltar's subsequent heroism in the amazing running battle with the Cylons seems to agree with Six's odd proclamations about humanity! Back shooting someone makes him a man? This strikes me as unlikely, and cynical to boot.

Five, the chief's agreement to falsify the circumstances of the lieutenant's death shouldn't matter. A human bullet wound in the back speaks louder than both.

Six, the black and white characterization is offputting. Baltar lies about his cowardly retreat from the radar dish, giving the lieutenant a false perspective on the tactics. Amazingly, Baltar continues to lie even when admitting the truth would lead the lieutenant to reconsider his attack plan! Thus, it's all Baltar's fault. The lieutenant puts down the chief. Thus, he deserves to die. (Incidentally, although pulling rank doesn't answer the chief's comment about the other two guys, what was the chief's point? To smart off I think, which for me makes the lieutenant's response not quite the villainy the episode would have.) The chief, who says follow orders one minute and assaults a superior officer a little late, is however a hero, motivated by gallantry, even towards the pig shot in the back. Yeah, sure.

In the rest of the episode....

Roslin's drug withdrawal is preposterously hokey. She was taking that stuff as a herbal remedy for cancer, no? Yet it also causes visions. And we now discover it is addictive. I would have thought the doctor would have made a bigger deal about it. I would, because such a drug would be utterly unlike any chemical ever used by humanity. Given that the show is supposed to be about lifelike people, it stands to reason their brain chemistry should be lifelike too. On the other hand, withdrawal from pain meds (and why wouldn't a terminal cancer patient be on heavy doses of narcotics?) wouldn't cause such behavior. Exhibiting a prisoner suffering from lack of medical attention would be quite a misstep. So, what exactly was all that stuff with the wife?

Nor does alcohol necessarily induce amnesia. Tigh's forgetting the Kobol group was hard to believe.

Why does everyone call Roslin a schoolteacher? The people on this show are supposed to be us, and no one with a brain calls the secretary of education a schoolteacher.

Tigh's declaration of martial law is a logical development of Adama's actions. Neither Tigh nor Adama can permit the Quorum to make a judgment on Roslin's actions, hence the necessity for martial law. The storyline is written as if this is just some harebrained idea of Tigh's. I think the purpose of that is to leave the Adama character's hero credentials untarnished, so that it can escape the consequences.

pm

[Liebestraume]

Plot mechanic, thanks for sharing your well-developed thoughts. Being a bit of a "gusher" myself, your post made an especially interesting read.

I agree with much of what you said about the combat sequence on Kobol. Not that I am an expert on military strategy or a war-movie buff, but the alternatives you offered just seemed to make so much more sense. A lot of the conflict would have been avoided had they done what you suggested (or something similar). Perhaps Fragged did err on the side of contravince in this regard.

However, I have a slightly different perspective on several other points.

One of your issues with this episode seems to be its title being deviant from its original usage. It indeed is, for "fragging" should have involved a grenade. However, I simply took it as to suggest discord among the ranks – which I suppose happened both on and off the ship. Guess I'm not too fuzzed about it because I see language as dynamic. Think about the other term this episode easily brings to mind: Military Dictatorship – it actually meant something slightly different in the days when the phrase was first coined.

The other is Six's ostensible ability to predict future. But, was it really a prediction? Methinks not. Anyone with a clear perspective could see something really bad was about to go down given the situation they were in, what with the ranking officer in way over his head, and the fact obvious to all. Six planned that idea in Baltar’s mind and Baltar, being the self-serving coward that he is, of course determined he would not be the victim! In a way, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy which later Six could claim as foresight. Alternatively, the Six in Baltar’s head is not "real" but a manifestation of his psychosis. Still I maintain he was smart enough to figure all that out on his own.

I disagree about the black-and-white characterization. Crashdown had annoyed me to no end in the last a couple of episodes; but as he struggled through the responsibilities for which he had never prepared, he came through as an immensely sympathetic figure in the end. That says layered characterization to me. And this is true even fro Baltar, who turned from a dubious pacifist to an ostensible action-hero. Who'd thunk that?

Thanks for your thought-provoking post, I still have much to say (too much, per usual ). However, it’s getting late and I still have much packing to do ...

[ZeroPoint]

Although I share Plot Mechanic's viewpoint, I'd put most of the issues in the realm of making a good story, which means bending some logic and maybe some physics. I see it all the time, and it bugs me to no end. Especially with military organizations on shows doing the opposite of what I'd think miltary practice to be.

I didn't like that the brig guard let Ellen Tigh to see the prisoner President. Someone with more of a military background can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't feel that should have happened. Ellen had no rank and was not related/assisting to the President and should have been restricted.

Although I like BSG, I get bothered with statements that are just taken at face value and run with, without study. "One of you will betray the others", and Baltar doesn't ask WHY Six can predict it.

As soon as the chief was introduced, it sounded like what old war movies did. The non-commissioned officer that has been to hell and back twice. The soldiers will follow him because of his experience, and disobey the new lieutenant (or whatever rank) that orders them around gruffly.

To cover PM's question (I think): Roslin is called a schoolteacher because she was Director of Education or some such when the Cylons attacked and wiped out all of the political command chain above her.

[minh]

Hello, I'm new here, but been lurking for a long time. I was registered under the Prospero board under the same name. : ) Boy, you're awfully nit-picky. Some of your points are valid, although we have to suspend disbelief a little. It's not realistic to have a floating camera secretly taping the characters that are followed by an invisible orchestra. ;-) However, I think there's misunderstanding in some of your points.

First of all, these characters are not often rational, and it makes them very human. Under stress, you can throw rationality out the window. During tests, I sometimes miss simple questions and forget most of what I've learn. Five minutes after, I can do everything perfectly well.

Three, when Baltar shoots the lieutenant, naturally the Cylons attack. Now, the episode shows the group, without the advantage of surprise and with one fewer soldier not just holding off the Cylon attack but successfully attacking the radar dish. If this is believable, so is the lieutenant's idea about attacking the Cylons! Incidentally, earlier dialogue says that the missiles are just point and shoot, without a guidance system, so it's not quite certain why the radar is needed anyhow.

I think the writers are showing the radar is an easier target and in a more defendable position. They now know that their comrades are flying over for them, so they are driven by their desire to save them and fear of death. Rationality and irrationality are conflicting here, so don't expect the wisest choices. They also have wounded person with them. It's selfish for them to be suicidal. Let's apply game theory if you want rationality. If they charge the Cylons head on, they mostly likely die and have small chance of taking out the missiles. If they all flee to the radar dish, they still have small chance of taking out the dish, but also have the opportunity to flee and split up if things fail. Perhaps, one of them might survive. Both actions would have equal payoff to save the rescuers, but one is less costly to themselves.

I imagine aiming a dumb missile at a spacecraft moving faster than sound miles away is a hard task.

By the way, "kg" is a unit of mass, not frequency. This error is embarrassing for middle school students!

kg band - like we have different names for certain parts of the EM spectrum. I don't think it means frequency. (k band, c band)

At any rate, if the radar dish is needed, why wouldn't the Cylons guard it?

I thought the same thing. The Cylons don't know how many humans are left. The missiles might be a more important to protect since they can aim them manually with less accuracy though.

The episode seems to think that Baltar's shooting of the lieutenant is the betrayal predicted by Six, motivated by Baltar's cowardly desire to save his own skin from the failure of the lieutenant's deranged plan. Except, that shooting the gun does not save Baltar's skin but risk it, because it alerts the Cylons. It is past peculiar that Baltar, despite his blatant cowardice, never asks Six about how he personally might be saved from other Cylons: Such an oversight is just bad characterization.

Again, are you sure he's rational? He's afraid of her and lust for her at the same time. Six could be just a delusion in his mind, so he subconsciously knows not to ask her. I think he did push questions about his roles and other, but Six remained very vague, so knows not to ask her too.

Five, the chief's agreement to falsify the circumstances of the lieutenant's death shouldn't matter. A human bullet wound in the back speaks louder than both.

What reason would that they have to suspect foul play? Would they have medical examiner check every dead body? Baltar is a respected doctor/scientist after all. The rest of crew trust the survivors and would like to believe that Crashdown died honorably. Out of sight, out of mind. Additionally, the aftermath is not show yet. It may comeback to haunt in the near future.

Six, the black and white characterization is offputting. Baltar lies about his cowardly retreat from the radar dish, giving the lieutenant a false perspective on the tactics. Amazingly, Baltar continues to lie even when admitting the truth would lead the lieutenant to reconsider his attack plan! Thus, it's all Baltar's fault. The lieutenant puts down the chief. Thus, he deserves to die. (Incidentally, although pulling rank doesn't answer the chief's comment about the other two guys, what was the chief's point? To smart off I think, which for me makes the lieutenant's response not quite the villainy the episode would have.)

Crashdown died because he wasn't a very good leader. He probably would have gotten them all killed. Crashdown deserved to die because his death let them all live, not because he put down the chief. He should have listened to the chieft more because he's more experienced and level headed. Because his death was caused by Balter (in more ways than one), he's portrayed in a good light. He’s a tragic hero.

The chief, who says follow orders one minute and assaults a superior officer a little late, is however a hero, motivated by gallantry, even towards the pig shot in the back. Yeah, sure.

Why not? He's the most empathetic and sympathetic character of all them. He cares about his people while Crashdown sees people as a means to an objective. He cares about Crashdown too, giving him support and made Crashdown out to be a hero. The Chief would never pull a gun on his crew unless they or him comes to harm. Crashdown is too set in his military ways, and ignores the human side of things. He acts more like a machine which we can't relate. If he was really a leader, he should have led the charge and made the first move. Leaders tend to often to think of the subordinates as dispensable and prefer not to get in the fight themselves.


In the rest of the episode....

Roslin's drug withdrawal is preposterously hokey. She was taking that stuff as a herbal remedy for cancer, no? Yet it also causes visions. And we now discover it is addictive. I would have thought the doctor would have made a bigger deal about it. I would, because such a drug would be utterly unlike any chemical ever used by humanity. Given that the show is supposed to be about lifelike people, it stands to reason their brain chemistry should be lifelike too. On the other hand, withdrawal from pain meds (and why wouldn't a terminal cancer patient be on heavy doses of narcotics?) wouldn't cause such behavior. Exhibiting a prisoner suffering from lack of medical attention would be quite a misstep. So, what exactly was all that stuff with the wife?

Nor does alcohol necessarily induce amnesia. Tigh's forgetting the Kobol group was hard to believe.

I imagine that's your professional medical opinion? Drug interactions can vary wildly depending on its type and the person. I'll probably know more about this when I'll take biochemistry classes later this year.

Chamala extract may interact with other drugs Roslin may be taking. Its side-effects may not be thoroughly investigated. Are we sure that these visions are really drug induce? People can put themselves in trance state without drugs consciously and unconsciously. There’s also the possibly that these visions are real and are given to her by the gods, not from the drugs.

The doctor did advise her against it, but what can he do? She's the president and could get around him easily. He does smoke even though he knows better.

Tigh didn't know about Roslin's condition. He wants to show her as crazy to discredit her under the influence of his wife.

His wife is evil and manipulative.

Why does everyone call Roslin a schoolteacher? The people on this show are supposed to be us, and no one with a brain calls the secretary of education a schoolteacher.

They do when they mean it in a condescending way. She was the Secretary of Education and way down in the line of succession until the Cyclons kill all of the people above her. This dysphemism is use to by her opponents to say that she is unfit for the presidency.

Tigh's declaration of martial law is a logical development of Adama's actions. Neither Tigh nor Adama can permit the Quorum to make a judgment on Roslin's actions, hence the necessity for martial law. The storyline is written as if this is just some harebrained idea of Tigh's. I think the purpose of that is to leave the Adama character's hero credentials untarnished, so that it can escape the consequences.

Man got a temper, a b*tch for his wife and a drinking problem. He doesn't like people undermining his authority. Anything is possible.

*sorry for errors, I'm a bad proofreader

[White Knight]

I feel really sorry for Tigh. I can imagine him waking up the next morning with a massive hangover, saying "What the hell did I do last night?"

Poor, poor guy.

[minh]

A very, very small part of me is sympathetic, but another of me wants to douse him with water, pump his stomach, put him in detox and then kick his ass. I'm undecided whether to throw him out of the airlock. I feel more sorry for Roslin.

In America, every soldier swear allegiance to the Command in Chief "aka the president" who becomes technically the head of the military to prevent coups. It's interesting the the Colonials don't this in place. Then again, we wouldn't have this lovely situation that they war in now.

[Blue Banrigh]

Is anybody else wondering if Crashdown really would have shot Cally?

[LoneStar1836]

It's not realistic to have a floating camera secretly taping the characters that are followed by an invisible orchestra. ;-)

Heh. And here I thought there was an invisible orchestra running around the fleet creating that wonderful music. Next thing you are going to tell me is that there is no Santa Clause. By the way, Welcome to the board.

First of all, these characters are not often rational, and it makes them very human. Under stress, you can throw rationality out the window. During tests, I sometimes miss simple questions and forget most of what I've learn. Five minutes after, I can do everything perfectly well.

Great statement. I think that especially applies to Crash. The others seemed to keep their heads screwed on strait and not loose their cool while on Kobol until there at the end.

Crashdown is too set in his military ways, and ignores the human side of things. He acts more like a machine which we can't relate.

Crash was just a very inexperienced officer when it came to ground combat and was in way over his head and the situation just completely overwhelmed him. I found him to be a very sympathetic character in these 3 episodes so I personally wouldn’t say that I couldn’t relate to and understand some of the actions he took even though I disagreed with some of the things he did and blame him for Tarn’s death. I don’t think Crash deserved to die though. Though I guess I understand your statement there about him becoming almost machine-like. He fell back on his military training and kind of went into a mode of thinking by the book and regurgitating what the book says (ex. the 5 graph plan) rather than relying on his own instincts and the advice of those under him.

If he was really a leader, he should have led the charge and made the first move. Leaders tend to often to think of the subordinates as dispensable and prefer not to get in the fight themselves.

That’s why leaders get paid the big bucks so to speak. They make the decisions and the grunts carry them out. Though in Crash’s plan, he was very much part of the action. His plan called for Cally to move around to the left and flank the Centurians to draw their fire while Crash and Selix moved around to the right in order to take out the control consol for the missiles. Tyrol and Baltar were to stay in that high ground position and cover the other three. I can see why Cally balked because she was going to be the bait and probably had the highest chance of getting killed. Crash was willing to put himself in danger as well, but he never got the chance because he was shot in the back. Crash had a hard time thinking on his feet while on Kobol. In this case he should have changed up the plan and had Cally stay at the high ground and help with cover fire and sent out one of the other ones to draw fire. Heh. I’d have sent Baltar since he had the least firearms training and was pretty much just going to be running. You needed Tyrol on the high ground because he can cover the others better. Plus I just want to see Baltar have to run like the big coward he is.

Five, the chief's agreement to falsify the circumstances of the lieutenant's death shouldn't matter. A human bullet wound in the back speaks louder than both.

I seriously doubt they went back and retrieved Crashdown’s body. As far as I could tell, Lee only took out three Centurians so I’d imagine they just did a scoop and run in order to avoid contact with the remaining Centurians if there were any left. But then again it didn’t look like they were in that big of a hurry to get the survivors aboard. *shrug* Otherwise it would be pretty obvious he was shot in the back and thus possibly raise suspicions. I have no doubts that Baltar’s comment and Tyrol’s nodding in agreement will come back into play later.

Is anybody else wondering if Crashdown really would have shot Cally?

I don't think he would have. Or at least I want to believe he wouldn't have.

[Jonisa]

Regarding whether or not Crashdown would have shot Cally:

I don't think he would have. Or at least I want to believe he wouldn't have.

I tend to agree. Remember, in Valley of Darkness he beckoned to Tyrol and told him to "Look after her" when they headed back to get the medkit to try to save Socinus. I think he really cared about her. Unfortunately, he was in a situation where he was completely and utterly out of his depth. He didn't have the confidence or experience to lead, he was leading people who had little or no military experience and were scared spitless, and he had already lost two people. The guilt of their deaths, the fear of what the Cylons were going to do to his group and the landing party, the pressure of being in a position that he wasn't ready for all came to a head and he cracked.

Poor Crashdown. I really felt sorry for him. I like to believe he would have come to his senses and put his gun down and then realize that Tyrol was the one talking.

Then again, this is BSG we're talking about. This show defines unpredictability. Who knows what he might have done?

[plot mechanic]

Liebestraume: Thanks for the input. Your point about how the episode's deviant usage of "fragged" from its Vietnam coinage is a major issue for me is quite correct.

You are stuck in a pointless losing war, where an officer insists on risking your life just to make himself look good. What do you do? Defend yourself with a grenade in his tent. Not only is that a drastic solution for an intense conflict, it is something that might have a certain contemporary relevance. Except for the big difference that there is no draft. But Cowardly's remark about wanting money for dental school is an updating, no?

For that reason, it appears to me that the episode title does claim to address an important dramatic issue. In this story, a well intentioned officer in over his head might have been fragged, but fortunately a civilian spared him making the choice. Thus, we're supposed to accept his little speech to said civilian about discipline at face value. The story might have said, the world has effectively come to an end, this idiot is going to get us all killed, screw stupid rules and off the boob. Alternatively, it might have said, discipline is not just a good idea, but a necessity, even though in some extreme circumstances the cost is high.

What we seem to get is: Killing makes even a Baltar a man. As I said, this seems both unlikely and cynical. For me, the episode was contrived, evasive and trivial all at once. If the title didn't pose the same issues for you, I suppose the episode might come across differently.

I agree that this episode actually suggests that Six is bluffing, which is why I said that the episode apparently believes that the one who did the betraying was Baltar. I don't think the suggested manipulation is plausible, but to each his own. Of course, that issue isn't a cut and dried as some other plot contrivances in the episode.

It's true that the lieutenant has the closest thing to a subtle characterization. I think that this is an accident, from the predetermined conclusion that the guy must deserve to die (or this is a genuine tragedy instead of fun, ) yet must be well intentioned, so that there is no genuine confrontation of uncomfortable issues involved in real fragging.

For the latter, a contrived plot ensures that it's all Baltar's fault that his good intentions go awry. Yet bizarre dialogue, like the exchange about the dead soldiers, makes the guy unlikeable, especially mean to the chief, hence deserving to die, achieving the former.

Yes, I know that doesn't actually follow, except in a crudely melodramatic, childishly personalized way. This sort of thing is why I'm not one to claim the show is great drama.

In another instance, the lieutenant tells the chief to stay cool. Since he is obviously the one who is agitated, this is quite unpleasant. At least, that's the way the scene is written and acted. But, consider the actual content of that exchange. The lieutenant is explaining why it is necessary to attack the Cylons. He is correct. The chief has no arguments, and is merely obstructive. It is the lieutenant who is "coolly" reasoning!

Perhaps the characterization here is too subtle for me, but I must confess it just seems arbitrary writing.

ZeroPoint: It seems you put less value on plot mechanics than I do. For me, big gaps in logic make the show less entertaining. For example, that would be intense scene when the chief, the lieutenant and Cowardly were at crisis point was completely flat for me because I was wondering why no one was saying "SHH, SHH, SHH, DON'T ALERT THE CYLONS!"

Minh: Interesting point about the kg being a band. I'll have to look that up. Thanks for the tip. Edit: There is a K band, subdivided into Ka and Kb. No kg. From TwizTv:

Baltar: The dradis dish that controls the missiles is o*n the 4.5 kg wavelength, judging by the diameter.

Sorry, this still sounds dreadfully stupid, and took me out of the scene.

Blue Banrigh: Yes, I'm wondering. The guy obviously was desperate to save the search mission, but still didn't want to do his duty re Cowardly.

Again, thanks to all. Might watch the revolution episode tonight, might not. Enjoy!

pm

PS Whoops! Forgot to agree with Lonestar 1836 assessment of the lieutenant's intentions. Yet I must agree with Minh's contention that the lieutenant was portrayed as deserving to die! Seriously, I'm not trying to be contrary, I really do see the portrayal as contradictory.

[dosed150]

im sure i remember it being mentioned that roslin actually was a school teacher either before becoming a minister or whilst being a minister and as for crashdown i think he really would have shot callie he just seemed to get crazier the longer they where on kobol i think its not just the deaths it could be something to do with what number 6? said about kobol being a dark place forgotten by god for someone who joined to pay for dental school thats twice another human has threatened to shoot callie in both cases the person with the gun was shot in the back by someone else doesnt tigh realise his decision is going to cause rioting in the fleet surely the cheif medical officer doc cottle( hes a bit rubbish he smokes while seeing patients and his advice is to pray) could get tigh taken out of command because tighs judgement is obviously impaired

[Matt G]

And BSG goes up another gear!

1. I reckon Roslin was faking going crazy. She seemed to be very coherant when addressing the Quorum.

2. Tigh losing the plot...bloody hell.

3. What went down on Kobol was outright insanity, nothing more nothing less.