Crossroads, Part 1 (319)

[kittykatta]

Obviously theyre setting up for some major characters will be part of the "new cylon unveilings" but as viewers then does this upcoming twist piss you off at all? The show has always felt like it was being made up as it went along and now after 3 years of character development then I'm not very fond of the idea that they have to make major changes just to create a shocking cliffhanger.

Personally, i've felt this whole season was a bore. Some great characters were really destroyed, the excitement of survival was replaced by upholding the law or ethics lessons, and the show in general just got boring. I don't think finding out Adama, Anders, Tigh or whoever they switch over is going to improve the series and in fact, it will probably make watching those older episodes more difficult when you see beloved characters weren't really as deep as we thought.

[dizzysaurus]

Obviously theyre setting up for some major characters will be part of the "new cylon unveilings" but as viewers then does this upcoming twist piss you off at all? The show has always felt like it was being made up as it went along and now after 3 years of character development then I'm not very fond of the idea that they have to make major changes just to create a shocking cliffhanger.

Personally, i've felt this whole season was a bore. Some great characters were really destroyed, the excitement of survival was replaced by upholding the law or ethics lessons, and the show in general just got boring. I don't think finding out Adama, Anders, Tigh or whoever they switch over is going to improve the series and in fact, it will probably make watching those older episodes more difficult when you see beloved characters weren't really as deep as we thought.

Why assume that the new revealed "cylons" will be cylons at all? Why assume they will just switch over to the Dark Side? I think that the "final 5", whatever they are, are in opposition to the cylons in some way. They're nearing earth or at least the nebula that may point the way to earth; things are changing, a storm is coming. Don't assume that even the cylons will remain the same!

As for your assertion that this season has been a bore. Well, it hasn't had a large space battle every episode. Neither did Deep Space 9, but some of the best episodes in the series, such as The Visitor, In the Pale Moonlight and Intra Arma Silent Leges didn't really have any space stuff in them at all...

Sometimes you just have to stop fighting for survival and live.

I've loved every episode of this season, many of the non-battle episodes have challenged the way I think about many subjects. BSG, bizarrely enough, has done what a lot of old-school scifi did for me back in the day; grown me as a person.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

I've loved every episode of this season, many of the non-battle episodes have challenged the way I think about many subjects. BSG, bizarrely enough, has done what a lot of old-school scifi did for me back in the day; grown me as a person.

That is true, scifi used to bring up complex social issues and ethical quandries more often that it does now.

[Oreo]

And the Final Five might not even be real Cylons. If they die, what happens to them? They will not download into another body because there isn't any bodies around. So they are already different in one way.

[Marauder359]

And the Final Five might not even be real Cylons. If they die, what happens to them? They will not download into another body because there isn't any bodies around. So they are already different in one way.

If this were a second rate courtroom drama, here's where I'd object that you are drawing conclusions with a lack of foundation.

Different? Clearly... otherwise there'd just be 12 Cylons, not 5 and 7. But how they're different? Who knows? Do they have resurrection bodies? Not with the other Cylons, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. We just don't know yet... not enough info to conclude.

[huntress]

Hello: It reran last night. I watched again. I saw the tribunal panel. I saw the court reporter. I saw the Marines as the bailiff/court security. I did not see a jury.
It seems, a tribunal is a combo of judge + jury. The female captain appeared to be the chief justice/foreperson. I would think to be balanced, there should be a professional judge presiding. That is to have someone to referee & rule on points of law & procedures & objections. The female capt. did seem to know what was going on, prehaps she has a legal background.

Thanks for the information. That means it was in every essence a classical comon law set-up. I thought as much but I wasn't sure.

[apollo123]

Baltar could at least be charged with gross negligence or even manslaughter...just when the numbers get so large, it would be a crime against humanity. He gave a woman that he new was a cylon (because Cane asked him to interrogate her) a nuclear warhead (civilians and marines saw it delivered to her)...the nuclear bomb went off when they began settling on new caprica, and the cyclons told baltar (in front of other civilians) that they found the settlement because of a radiation signature of a nuclear explosion.

And of course the biggest crime of all which was to give security information to Six and basically causing the near annihilation of the human race. If he was charged with those crimes, that would be a different story. He would be hanged for sure. But that's not what he's on trial for. This trial is only for what he did on New Caprica and on that matter, the evidence isn't all that convincing.

[Lady Snow]

And of course the biggest crime of all which was to give security information to Six and basically causing the near annihilation of the human race. If he was charged with those crimes, that would be a different story. He would be hanged for sure.

Emphasis mine

Absolutely not true. There is no physical evidence to make this charge stick whatsoever. It's like the prosecutor said: "I will only charge him with what I can prove."

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

And the Final Five might not even be real Cylons. If they die, what happens to them? They will not download into another body because there isn't any bodies around. So they are already different in one way.

The Five are probably Cylons, meaning that they are artificially created bio-androids like the Seven. The Seven believe that there are Twelve humanoid Cylon models, consisting of themselves and an unknown "Final Five". It's certainly possible for them to be wrong, given that their knowlege is incomplete, but there's no hard evidence for any other possibility so far. It's a given that the Five are different from the Seven, which is why they are grouped separately, but there's no real information yet on exactly how they are different, what their purpose is and how it either synergizes or conflicts with the purpose of the Seven, why they were placed exactly where they are, and so on. They definitely have no spare bodies in storage on the Resurrection Ship, because it would then be easy for any of the Seven, such as D'Anna, to identify the Five by looking for these empty bodies. But, as Marauder359 pointed out, there's still the possiblity of empty Fiver bodies in storage somewhere, and perhaps additional active copies as well.

[Agent_Dark]

Emphasis mine

Absolutely not true. There is no physical evidence to make this charge stick whatsoever. It's like the prosecutor said: "I will only charge him with what I can prove."

Also, you can't be convicted of treason if you were un-willingly/un-knowingly duped into it. You could debate whether Baltar was un-willing/un-knowning of what Six was up to, but like you said there's very little evidence to make it stick other than Six's word herself. And a witness statement is always the least reliable form of evidence, so I would imagine they'd have a hard time convicting based soley on that - especially considering she's a Cylon.

Assuming they'd follow modern Earth legal practices that is

[TheBigFlush]

He gave a woman that he new was a cylon (because Cane asked him to interrogate her) a nuclear warhead (civilians and marines saw it delivered to her)...

Question (because I can't remember): Did anyone actually see her inside the cabin to which he brought the warhead? As I recall, she was somehow helped to secretly be brought to that ship.

[wiseowl777]

we still have to adress a problem

if it turns out one of our beloved crew is a cylon... thats 2!..
how did they get these cylons in this position? i mean the surviving ships seemed random. they all happened to be aboard ships that survived? or did the cylons let them survive? if so why? perhaps it is part of a grand cylon experiment?
maybe they have been letting gallactica just barely escape the entire time? it is after all one nearly retired battlestar vs countless basestars....

it would just be really odd to find that out of the countless battlestars the one that survives has 2 and maybe more cylon crew members.

[the fifth man]

it would just be really odd to find that out of the countless battlestars the one that survives has 2 and maybe more cylon crew members.

It could just be a case of really, really bad luck.

[callmeishmael]

Thanks for the information. That means it was in every essence a classical comon law set-up. I thought as much but I wasn't sure.

I disagree. It seems to be modeled after the International Criminal Tribunals (which try crimes against humanities). They have a panel of judges, not a jury. In any case, in the U.S. you have a right to a jury trial in criminal cases, but it doesn't mean you have to accept it. Baltar probably realizes that a majority of "his peers" would just find him guilty and would have asked for a bench trial anyway. As for Lee arguing, there are few attorneys in the fleet and I think Baltar just left it up to Romo as a stragetic decision.

[Skydiver]

maybe they have been letting gallactica just barely escape the entire time? it is after all one nearly retired battlestar vs countless basestars....

it is very possible that the cylons have been 'letting' the galatica find earth, knowing that they can easily overwhelm the 'rag tag fleet' and settle down in the new home. IE following 'us' to let us do all the work for them