Originally posted by dec55
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We had the same thought when we watched it as well. Why the frak don't they have machines doing most of the grunt work? Sure, Galactica's antiquated, but from what we've seen, the rest of the RTF isn't. I didn't really buy this premise, but the message of the episode probably wouldn't have come across as well if we had been watching guys (and by "guys" I mean "women") clean toilets for 43 minutes.Words to live by: "When in doubt, shoot at the guy yelling 'Kree!'."
Let's try this again: Spoiler-free 'til Season 4.5.
EJO on the blooper reel: "I hope you like it... or I'll SQUASH YOUR NUTS."
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If Baltar has the support of the people through his book, how quickly they forget that when he was the ruling class on New Caprica (at best he was a collaborator) living in relative luxury with all the drink, cigars and women he could want - they were living in little more than shacks lucky to have the lights on. It's a bit rich for him to now be changing his opinion now he is in a cell.
In the end what he says is correct - the workers are given a raw deal, but he is only saying it now that the shi* has hit the fan and he now is probably facing a firing squad (I have my doubts Adama was going to shot Callie but none when it comes to Baltar).Comment
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in a way it makes sense. their last attempt at mechanization? they create thier arch enemies. gonna make anyone think twice before creating somethng similar that might come back and bite them in the bootieOriginally posted by dec55 View PostComment
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yeah i mean they were only just getting round to networking their computers again. it makes a lot of sense that at least many of the older ships would not be mechanised.Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.Comment
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A couple things:
First, when you say that "they were just getting round to networking their computers again," whom do you mean? Roslin, as Secretary for Education, was well familiar with "integrated computer networks" as educational tools in the Miniseries, which suggests (to me, at least) that networks were commonplace and considered useful. Galactica, being a relic, didn't have one; it stands to reason that the mainframes of the Colonies - and the newer ships - had networks. I don't think we were explicitly told if Pegasus had one or not.
Second, it does make sense that the older ships wouldn't be mechanized. It also makes sense that the Colonies would update the potentially explosive ships to be safer and not involve as much human error by mechanizing them. Was this the one tylium refinery ship left in the Colonies that had human labourers? How stringent were the anti-AI research laws pre-genocide (namely the ones that Baltar opposed in the Mini)?
I don't know. This part of the episode rang wrong to me.Words to live by: "When in doubt, shoot at the guy yelling 'Kree!'."
Let's try this again: Spoiler-free 'til Season 4.5.
EJO on the blooper reel: "I hope you like it... or I'll SQUASH YOUR NUTS."
Spoiler:Comment
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i think they de-networked them after the cylon tried to attack them with a virusComment
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That would be great, but sadly I don't think that will happen. Everytime there seems to be a build up to a civil war nothing happens. I have been looking forward for one for years. That way if it does happen Six can go "The Cylons aren't going to waste their time trying to find you because you do a better job of killing yourselves then we ever could".Originally posted by Maj.Tahn View PostComment
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They had one but it was down while they were at the Scorpian Fleet Yards for repairs when the Cylons attacked, which is why Caprica-Six's altered CNP program didn't affect them. ("Pegasus" Extended Version)Originally posted by Lady Snow View Post
BTW, RDM's podcast says that Baltar's Aerelon backstory is true. He was originally going to be Sagittaron, but that was changed.Comment
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Woah Roslin had someone arrested someone for reading a book. :-(My heart beats in 13/8.
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Actually check your history. This happens all the time. Germany, in WW2, was able to fight England, France, Poland, Russia, and the US for six years. Most of their heavy equipment was pulled by *horses* (the US was the first mostly mechanized army when they invaded Europe).Originally posted by dec55 View Post
Japan, also in WW2, had gone from an agrarian society to an industrial power capable of taking on the US (for a short while). Yet most of their industry was hand-made. For example, the aerospace industry in Japan at the time consisted of thousands of small outfits making parts by hand. This is one reason why the firebombings of the urban centers was more effective against the Japanese vs the Germans, the Japanese industry was based more on hand-labor widely distributed in the urban areas, and very vulnerable to population-based attacks like the US firebombings of their cities.
Also, watch "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery channel. Even our supposedly "advanced" society has many of its less desirable jobs done in ways that this episode reflects.
Technological advances definitely are not uniform, nor do they need to be in many ways. I can easily see a cheapskate Tilyum refining company in the colonies employing cost-cutting schemes on their refinining ships to save some money. Why invest in expensive machinery, when a bunch of low-paid workers from the non-noble colonies can do the job just as well but at a fraction of the cost?Comment
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Plus there's the whole fact that these people have had serious problems with robots, and that many problems that arise on these ships, like the one that teenager had to stop, are best correct by intelligence instead of machinery. AI is illegal, so people have to do the thinking.Comment
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Transcripts and image gallery for S3 Eps 15 & 16 'A Day In The Life' & ' Dirty Hands' have now been posted
suzanna
http://www.scifiquest.com/battlestargalacticaComment
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Without the cues of some uplifting music, I wouldn't have guessed this episode ended with a positive outcome at all.
The patriarchal militaristic hierarchy effectively crushed the strike entirely by threatening the life of Cally. This is the kind of approach that would seem entirely in character for Admiral Cain, but wears very thin on Admiral Adama. The ending sop about "I thought you intended to speak to the President" was specious and condescending. What's to keep Roslyn from taking measures just as Draconian as Adama ? If we are to be guided by recent history, Adama has been the voice of moderation more than Roslyn. Clearly the role the Chief is allowed to play is entirely limited by the will and whim of Adama and Roslin. The limits have been defined with deadly precision. The arguments raised by Baltar were, in fact, substantiated by Adama's actions. The result is a muddle of ethics and rules of conduct made palatable only by our long engendered sympathy for Adama and Roslyn.
Exactly how practical are some of the suggestions Tyrol made ? What if a crisis developed when Roslyn was on her "rotation" of floor cleaning ? Wouldn't she be drop everything and be called back to resume her leadership position ? Are the rotations truly "leveling" or merely cosmetic ?
Clearly absolute authority was exercised by Adama in a way we've not seen before. His excuse is patently absurd "Suppose someone refuses an order that I give that he/she doesn't want to obey". Isn't that precisely what Adama did when he was subjected to the discipline of Admiral Caine? Isn't that what Lee Adama did when ordered to arrest Roslin ? Isn't that what Kara Thrace did when she jumped the Raider to Caprica ? Seems like there are, as Baltar asserted, two sets of rules. Whatever happened to the concept that "context matters" ?
A valid question implicit in the conflict but never raised is "is a democracy the best way for the small remnant of humanity to organize itself when involved in a conflict for the survival of the species" ? The US certainly has a track record of surrendering individual Civil Liberties in time of war, or threat of war.
The concept floated in this episode that societies divided by class are inherently unstable is arguable too. Feudal division's lasted more or less unchanged for hundreds of years in the Middle Ages. Institutions develop not in a vacuum, no pun intended, but to prop up the existing power centers in a way to minimize internal conflicts and maximize stability: so wealth can accumulate, so power can be centralized, so progress can be made, so wars can be won. How are we to state positively that a democratic model is the best one to follow in this circumstance ? Forced conscription appears to be an acceptable (and even a "fair and balanced") alternative in the Colonial dystopia to the alternative of class stratification. What's so different about "drafting farmers" to work in the tillium vessel and the tactics used by Cain to conscript the Viper engineer to work on the flight deck ? Both are occasions of coercion of the individual for the "good of the fleet".
It is far from clear that democracy triumphed in this episode. If anything was proved, it was that the power holders are ready and willing to be ruthless in exercising their will when threatened. Dissent is tolerated only when its contours can be defined and limted.Last edited by anotherquestion; 21 April 2007, 12:36 PM.Comment
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We know that the Cylons are able to infect the network mainframe very easily and breach any firewalls. We have seen them doing that in the mini-series as well as in season one. I could imagine, that maybe by now that the ships that are still left, actually downsize to the level of the Galactica, bacause they don't want to be infected and also ready to jump when the Cylons attack. It doesn't have to do with being more advanced in technology, it all has to do with survival and if that means doing a lot of stuff by hand and using antiquated technology then so be it.
Regarding the chances that a lot of people will back up Baltar: they are very good. History has shown us over and over again, that individuals are smart but the mass of people dumb. Baltar is a good demagoge and in his book he addresses a lot of topics that are hot topic issues in the fleet. The life on the ships is hellish. People live together at very close space, have little or no privacy. There is not enough food and medicine ( --> Black Market and that was BEFORE New Caprica), the work is dangerous and hard. On top of it many people are traumatized from the initial attack, the events on New Caprica and everyone is constantly scared that the Cylons will appear and blow them out of the water because their ships are in a terrible state and now they don't even have the Pegasus anymore to defend them. In such an environment it is easy for Baltar to gain an audience. Of course many will remember what he did on New Caprica and I am sure that a lot of people will point that out either in private or it will be pointed out in his trial but there will be enough people who will "forget" or ignore his role or even try to defend him. I am really looking forward to the trial.Last edited by huntress; 28 February 2007, 10:22 AM.
He's like fire, ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun.
He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.
And he's wonderful.Comment
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Huntress' predictions are very realistic and I agree. However, there is no H in 'Baltar'.Comment
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