Hero (308)

[full.infinity]

I'm sorry, who are you and who said you were entitled to an opinion?

Just kidding. Although with some of the fur flying around here it does make you wonder what this thread is supposed to be about. Something about some dude from Adama's past or something. Regrettably I forgot to check his voter registration card to see if he's Republican or Democrat, so I'm not sure what I'm allowed to say about him.

I don't think Bulldog has a voter registration card. The hybrids don't even get a vote!

[captainpash]

I think it's funny how everyone is trying hide the fact that this is indeed a commentary on the war in Iraq. It's plain and simiple, and guess what I couldn't care! You want to know why? Well of course you do because if I didn't people would be screaming at me. I don't care because it's a show with great characters and very interesting plot lines. If Ron Moore want put a commentary on Iraq into it guess what good for him. More power to him. That doesn't stop how good the show is. If you stop watching because of politcal views that aren't shoved down you're throat instead presented in a way that is more sublet and let's you decide then do it, but just because they present decidly left wing views doesn't make the show any worse.

So yeah stop watching if you want over some stupid politics or just shut up and watch for what really makes the show. The writing, acting, and directing.

[Nolamom]

I think it's funny how everyone is trying hide the fact that this is indeed a commentary on the war in Iraq. .

Unfortunately, that the point that folks have been trying to make for quite some time now - is it NOT NECESSARILY a commentary on the war in Iraq. It is a commentary on war. All war. Every war. Or at least every modern war. Why do a couple of posters insist on the oversimplification of Iraq?
Nola

[lethalfang]

[quoted post snipped]

The show is making a metaphorical commentary on ALL wars, and yes, INCLUDING the Iraqi war. That's why you saw the suicide bombing, which is a not-so-subtle reference to the middle east situation in general.
This is important. If you are going to make a metaphorical commentary on wars in general, you'd BETTER include the one that's currently going on. I'm glad the writers didn't chicken out on that.
However, there are other events in the show that have little direct relevance to the Iraqi war, such as Collaborators.
As for the Collaborators, most people might've thought of the WWII France, but somehow it has reminded me of the American Civil War. Shortly after the Civil War was over, many Confederacy military commanders were prosecuted, convicted, and hung for crimes no worse than those committed by Union army. The reason the episode reminded me of the Civil War is that, it has been commented by historians, that Lincoln should've immediately pardoned most of these people, in order to re-unite the country, instead of tearing it apart, i.e. what Rosalin was doing.

[hyzmarca]

And one important thing to remember is that Islamic groups in general weren't particularly apt to use suicide bombings untill the Palestenian groups recieved training from the Japanese Red Army (a pro-communist Japanese terrorist orginization). The first suicide attack perpertrated against Israel was carried out by the JRA, in fact.

[shernernum]

[mod snip]

Can BSG be taken as illustrating some of what is going on in Iraq? Probably, although everybody seems hell bent on equating the Resistance with suicide bombing terrorists and extremists and then saying that since the Resistance was played by human characters (supposed good guys) then RDM is taking an anti US stance. I have alot of problems with that conclusion, first of all, because the humans have not always been shown in a positive light in this show, they are constantly doing some pretty messed up things during the course of the show. By the way, how positive a light were the suicide bombers themselves really shown in. In the Resistance people were for and against the bombings on moral grounds, and the ones who were the major proponents of doing it....ie Col. Tigh, are not shown to be the most stable or clear thinking, some may even say they look insane from time to time.
What I think it does show is that some people will go to desperate measures in desperate situations, while some people will use a perceived necessity as a reason to do something way over the top. In other words, some will do something radical because they feel they have no other way out, but some people will do something radical because they want to do something radical and the situation that they are in allows them to.
So again in this show, are we given a window on the current situation in Iraq? Probably, but it is also true that the things being shown do not and have not occured only in Iraq. Even if RDM did not have other wars in mind, nothing happens in a vacuum and the problems in Iraq cannot be seperated from all that led up to it, and the way all wars are fought are a testimony from lessons that have been learned during the fighting of past wars. So we end up back at deciding whether it is merely black and white or something much deeper and more complicated than that. If you want to see it as black and white, go right ahead, but don't get bent out of shape when not everyone else sees it that way.

[Grey Area]

Oh right, I forgot all about those French resistance suicide bombers. Thanks for reminding me



So let me get this straight. You're saying that RDM is commenting on German occupied France? So the Cylons are NAZIs? Well, I feel better now.


Blah Blah Blah

Isnt there some sort of internet law that states as soon as any discussion thread mentions the nazis then it becomes null and void ?

[Berg417448]

Isnt there some sort of internet law that states as soon as any discussion thread mentions the nazis then it becomes null and void ?

LOL! Yes...Godwin's Law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

[ToasterOnFire]

Isnt there some sort of internet law that states as soon as any discussion thread mentions the nazis then it becomes null and void ?

Godwin's Law. Though I think in this case the post gets a pass because it's a legitimate historical comment. Otherwise any internet discussions on the history of Hitler and Nazis would be ruled null and void just by their existance.

[NumberSix.CF]

RDM stated he is using real life problems to make the show more human.

We do messed up things everyday, and New Caprica was a messed up place.

Desperate times calls for Desperate measures.

[lethalfang]

[mod snip]

Can BSG be taken as illustrating some of what is going on in Iraq? Probably, although everybody seems hell bent on equating the Resistance with suicide bombing terrorists and extremists and then saying that since the Resistance was played by human characters (supposed good guys) then RDM is taking an anti US stance. I have alot of problems with that conclusion, first of all, because the humans have not always been shown in a positive light in this show, they are constantly doing some pretty messed up things during the course of the show. By the way, how positive a light were the suicide bombers themselves really shown in. In the Resistance people were for and against the bombings on moral grounds, and the ones who were the major proponents of doing it....ie Col. Tigh, are not shown to be the most stable or clear thinking, some may even say they look insane from time to time.
What I think it does show is that some people will go to desperate measures in desperate situations, while some people will use a perceived necessity as a reason to do something way over the top. In other words, some will do something radical because they feel they have no other way out, but some people will do something radical because they want to do something radical and the situation that they are in allows them to.
So again in this show, are we given a window on the current situation in Iraq? Probably, but it is also true that the things being shown do not and have not occured only in Iraq. Even if RDM did not have other wars in mind, nothing happens in a vacuum and the problems in Iraq cannot be seperated from all that led up to it, and the way all wars are fought are a testimony from lessons that have been learned during the fighting of past wars. So we end up back at deciding whether it is merely black and white or something much deeper and more complicated than that. If you want to see it as black and white, go right ahead, but don't get bent out of shape when not everyone else sees it that way.

Excellent commentary, shernernum.

[Maj.Tahn]

"Baltar is a pimp!" He is one big "mack daddy." By the time Baltar is through, he will have Six, D'Anna, Starbuck, Sharon & Kat all out on the track & giving their money to him. Note: To those of you who are obtuse; "on the track" is slang for streetwalking. Solicitors to the BSG/TOS gang. Kat had better watch out. Kat may find herself in a threesome with Baltar & Racetrack.

[Grey Area]

I still say Godwins law is activated here

"Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a mainstay of Internet culture, an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[1]
Godwin's Law does not dispute whether, in a particular instance, a reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be apt. It is precisely because such a reference or comparison may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin argues in his book, Cyber Rights: Defending Free Speech in the Digital Age, that overuse of the Hitler/Nazi comparison should be avoided, as it robs the valid comparisons of their impact"

"There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. Thus Godwin's Law serves also to impose an upper bound on thread length in general. However, it is rare for the person accused of an unfair comparison to Nazism to concede the argument themselves. Therefore, the argument will likely arise in another thread if the participants have a sufficient level of emotional attachment to the topic of debate. This places the long-term utility of Godwin's Law into question.

It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's Law (in the above sense) will be unsuccessful. This is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception". "RGB's Restriction of Quirk's Exception", also states: "In cases where the subject of the comparison to Hitler fails to recognize the applicability of Quirk's Exception, Quirk's Exception shall not apply and Godwin's Law shall take effect in its normal manner."



Thank you Berg and Mr Wikipeda

[Arative]

I still say Godwins law is activated here

"Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a mainstay of Internet culture, an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[1]
Godwin's Law does not dispute whether, in a particular instance, a reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be apt. It is precisely because such a reference or comparison may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin argues in his book, Cyber Rights: Defending Free Speech in the Digital Age, that overuse of the Hitler/Nazi comparison should be avoided, as it robs the valid comparisons of their impact"

"There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. Thus Godwin's Law serves also to impose an upper bound on thread length in general. However, it is rare for the person accused of an unfair comparison to Nazism to concede the argument themselves. Therefore, the argument will likely arise in another thread if the participants have a sufficient level of emotional attachment to the topic of debate. This places the long-term utility of Godwin's Law into question.

It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's Law (in the above sense) will be unsuccessful. This is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception". "RGB's Restriction of Quirk's Exception", also states: "In cases where the subject of the comparison to Hitler fails to recognize the applicability of Quirk's Exception, Quirk's Exception shall not apply and Godwin's Law shall take effect in its normal manner."



Thank you Berg and Mr Wikipeda

But Godwin's law is more about comparing something else to Nazi's. Like those sci-fi exec's who canceled stargate are as bad a Nazis, in that case, Godwin's law would be invoked and discussion finished, poster who did that should have their posting rights revoked.

In the case of this thread, nazis were used in a historical context to make points that despite the fact that some people only see the Iraq war in Galatica, that there are other real world comparisons that can be made to Galatica.

As Adama said, context matters.

[captainpash]

Goodwin's law is so funny. I mean are people that serious about Nazi comparisions. I'll compare what I want, when I want and how I want. If you don't like it tough, but if you leave you lose its as simiple as that. I mean seriously if I want stupid rules for my debates I'll spend more time in Model Congress or in my Senior Seminar Class, and even with those rules I can still compare what I to when I want how I want.