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    It's hard to figure out where to start, because this episode has had alot of turning points. I believe it brought the most intruiging aspects that we, the fans, hold dear to science fiction and drama television. I love this episode not solely based on the content of the dialog but how Ronald D. Moore can play with our emotions in such a delicate way. In Season 1, he made episodes that created alot of excitement and wonder on which direction the series would follow, then around Season 3 we all felt despair and depression and the sentiment was that the series wasn't as invigorating as its past counterparts, then he delivers again! Coincidence? Not really, more so passion for suspense. The people that should be frowned apon are the people who had laid doubts at any point in the past of this series that it wouldn't recover from any down state of being. What we must all say now is that "I believe". I believe this series will keep delivering the quality viewing we value most and I will never doubt in the ability of the writers to maintain the integrity of the story we know as Battlestar Galactica.

    As for the story of the episode, someone earlier posted a quote of "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again" and how a species like the Cylons could have came about way before the Cylons existed (another "evolved" species). It gave me a notion of the possibility of a plot twist where the Cylons completely die from the disease and it's all unexpected then the humans head for Earth, thinking all is well because the Cylons are dead and that is it, but when they arrive to Earth they find this higher evolved species enslaving the humans of the thirteenth colony and then a new story/goal arises.

    The call name Athena is alright I guess, but it doesn't have the catchy wittyness as Hotdog or Starbuck. I like it, but it's kind of a copy off of Apollos name (naming each main character after a god of the twelve colonies).

    The character development between Colonel Saul Tigh and Starbuck is a bit wierd. Season 1 and Season 2 they hate each other and now they are friends or atleast like each other now (they were drinking with each other and aren't down each other throats with comments and dirty looks). Throughout the whole time on New Caprica, they never seen each other once (even during the rescue) so the bond is a bit awkward. Starbuck wasn't really tortured, atleast not on comparison to the others, she went through alot of psychological drama, but I wouldn't really call it torment, maybe..

    And in regards to everyone saying "this scene is like <Insert Science Fiction scene>", I think you're not giving enough credit where credit is due. If we play a little Devil's Advocate, can't we say that each and every television show, regardless of the genre, is a rip off of every other television show or visual concept. One could say Television Show A is a rip off of a show broadcasted 20 years ago and then a biographical novel could dispute the real origin was from a play 300 years ago then another person can dispute the origin of the concept came from 10,000 years ago from some ambiguous citation of the bible or whatever. The cycle is never ending and to say the least, petty.

    I'm not too worried about Apollo being sent back to the cockpit and the Cag. Originally I expected him to be sent as the XO of Galactica because his rank of Commander of the Pegasus would definately outrank Colonel Tigh, even though Colonel Tigh would have senority. I then wondered where Colonel Tigh would end up if that would happen so the conflict would have to pick one over the other. Also, even though this isn't my sexual preference, I think it's easy to agree that Apollo is seen as a sex symbol throughout the series and with his recent weight gain in Season 3, there was alot of emphasis on it and I think it was only fitting that he lost it to restore his sex symbol status, which correlates with him becoming a pilot again. As an XO he would not have as much reason to get into shape as he would as a pilot. I think we all enjoy Apollo in the air then on the ground, even though this is a character driven series a little action doesn't hurt either.

    I think sustaining the rank of Admiral for Admiral Adama is suiting. One, he has no real reason to demote himself as he has done nothing wrong, rather, the opposite. Two, it also serves as a type of insurance incase another incident where they meet up with another rogue battlestar (Example: Battlestar Pegasus) and possesses an Admiral who tries to outrank Admiral Adama, but since there is not higher rank then he can no longer be outranked and therefore no future conflict.

    As for the final five cylon models, I am really leaning away from huge cliches such as Admiral Adama (or any Adama, even Zach Adama),Starbuck, or Colonel Tigh being a Cylon. Why? Ronald D. Moore has quoted more than once that he insists staying away from typical Science Fiction cliches. Any fan knows, He doesn't want to be another Star Trek or Star Gate or something that would devalue the series quality and that's why we love what he writes. Gaes Baltar being a Cylon is interesting but I think he introduces this concept to us as a ploy to throw us off and when he does introduce one or all of the final five, we will even be more surprised.

    Lastly, I do kind of like the idea of how Athena got infected (or we assume she has) and the possibility of her dieing then being ressurected to destroy the rest of the Cylon race. I believe there will be a correlation with her infection (and how she spreads the disease) and the lie of Adama telling her that her child is dead. Maybe she cures herself before she infects the rest of the Cylons? Who knows. Anyways that is my two cents for today. Thanks to all who have listened.

    Comment


      I was very happy to see that this ep had more of an early BSG feel to it - Apollo and Starbuck are pilots again, Adama and Roslin are trying to get to Earth, Tyrol and Cally were on the flight deck, and Baltar was his crazy, lying, hallucinating self. But damn, ANOTHER two parter?

      -Any idea on how much time has passed between Collaborators and this ep?

      -Has Helo always been Adama's XO or did Tigh temporarily regain it when he came back only to lose it between the last ep and this one? His rant on the CIC in Collaborators made it seem like he was XO, but maybe he never got his spot back?

      -I couldn't be happier that Adama personally smacked around Starbuck and Tigh, though I thought Starbuck got herself into shape a bit too quickly. While it could be argued that they suffered more than most, they turned it into a weird form of obnoxious elitism. I don't know if Tigh is going to shape up though - there were a couple of seconds toward the end where I thought he was going to intentionally drink himself to death.

      -No one pulls off the glare of death like Adama.

      -Interesting how Sharon gets the callname Athena, the name of Adama's daughter in TOS, right before Adama declares that Starbuck is no longer like a daughter to him.

      -La de dah, Apollo's muscles are back. Now can we give his character a meaty storyline or two? Now that the fake suit is gone he's little more than eye candy.

      -Is the basestar hybrid model one of the 12 or some lesser form? I'm leaning toward the latter due to the "doesn't gets a vote" comment.

      -Basestars have glowy domino walls, strobing horizontal red lights, and posh fountains. It's like they're flying around in a big club.

      -No mention of Hera?

      -No Anders for that matter? Would he serve as military on Galactica? And is Dee back on the comm or somewhere else entirely?

      Comment


        Originally posted by Sam fisher View Post
        I'm guessing that word spread that Gaeta was a source in Baltars administration.

        On another note, I've always had a theory that the reason the Cylons could be distinguished against humans was that the Cylons had to change a few things to make it easier to mass-produce. But the Cylons had a few models that were exactly like humans but were really difficult to make. These 5 unknown models could tie into my theory and could be really deep into the Colonial Government. Feel free to nit-pick my theory, as I really don't remember parts of the 1st and 2nd season.
        We don't know the real origin of the skin-jobs yet. Nor have we seen anything as to what came in between the centurions and the skin-jobs. I would be willing to bet that somthing more "C3PO-ish" came in between and that it is now considered out-moded. Did these things really learn the fundamental skills to "CREATE" a human body with an organic cylon brain? Or did the Lords of Kobol evolve the Cylons to force humanity to face it's own mistakes. Or perhaps it was just ONE lord of Kobol.

        I stick with my theory that Earth is NOT a colony. Earth is the origin. The Lords of Kobol plucked humans off the earth during times when greek mythology was "in" and built the society on Kobol. Then the humans were expelled. The 13th colony was recorded as a trail back to their true origin.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Wedo765 View Post



          radio signals don't natural transmit biological pathogens, i could by that if the Cylons where partially organic, but they are so there would need to be some intelligent design and there would be no need to create a virus like that for humans we don't download but we're only assumeing it download with them, theres really no evidence it does, 3 was just being cautious
          Within the human DNA is hidden a variety of encodings for bacterium that somehow snuck in of millions of years. It could be possible that the disease is actually within the Cylons and the beacon merely activated it.

          It could be some "gift" from the Lords of Kobol. It could be a warning that humans are meant to return to Earth within Cylon interference. And then again, perhaps the Cylons just don't understand DNA as well as they thought they did.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Col.Foley View Post
            Yeah, the othr thought that I had was to possibly creat an office of civilian Military relations, because Galactica has got way to many senior officers. This would consist of Lee, Tigh, and Agathon. That is if Lee does not eventually get command of the Galactica at some later date. My thought was to have a desk on colonial one, updating Roslin on what the Galactica is doing. Sort of like our Presidential National Security Advisor. My other thought would be to have the officer in question rotate off. One month it would be Tigh, assuming he gets over his depression. Then the next it would be Agathon. This would releave the Galactica of having two colonels on the bridge, and Admiral, and a commander. Granted this stil takes into acount Lee getting to be the commander, and tigh getting over his depression.
            My belief is that Tigh is too tempermental now to command effectively. We all saw what happened last time he was in command. So I say NO to Tigh as XO. We all know that Roslin would never stand for Tigh in command of the military.

            He is one bad ass mofo in his own way though. Perhaps he should command the marines and leave running the boat to others.

            Comment


              thinkaobut this when/if athena dies and resurrects...three knows that hera is alive. knows that adama and roslyn lied to athena.

              imagine the hate and betrayal when Athena learns that her whole trust that she placed in Adama is misplaced

              methinks she's gonna be a weeee bit ticked off
              Where in the World is George Hammond?


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              Comment


                Spoilers for the next episode, episode 306 below:

                Spoiler:
                I have Comcast cable and with that a feature called OnDemand and with that I have access to all season 3 episodes plus a 2 minute preview of each upcoming episode. In 306, part of the preview shows Galactica's raiding party on the basestar, and while investigating what happened, show some of the cylons waking up/standing up, specifically 6 and Leoben. So the question is whether the virus actually does kill the Cylons, or if it simply disables them.
                "Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" - Tom Zarek

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Skydiver View Post
                  thinkaobut this when/if athena dies and resurrects...three knows that hera is alive. knows that adama and roslyn lied to athena.

                  imagine the hate and betrayal when Athena learns that her whole trust that she placed in Adama is misplaced

                  methinks she's gonna be a weeee bit ticked off
                  Does Adama actually know about the baby though? I recall Baltar, Tigh, Adama and Roslin were discussing various options on what to do, but the actual scene were the baby was handed over to Maya (ie the reveal that the baby didn't actually die) only involved Roslin, Tory and Cottle.

                  Comment


                    This was speculated about in an earlier thread, and most agreed that Adama probably does NOT know about Hera/Isis surviving, and that the secret was restricted to Roslin, Tori and Cottle as previous post suggested.

                    Spoiler:
                    "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. Should see the light that we get here when the sun comes from behind those mountains! It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
                    ---Bill Adama

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by rarocks24 View Post
                      The stuff about Adama doesn't need to be in spoilers, it happened in S.1, and we're going on S.3, if they don't know that now, then they should be up to date.

                      I think it a greater likelihood that either Lee is half-cylon, and was captured by the cylons at one point and brainwashed, or Bill is indeed a cylon, but it just doesn't click with me. Why have Boomer assassinate Bill if he indeed was a cylon? I'm sure there have to be some of the seven, maybe a select few, that actually know who the final five are. So the whole point of Adama being assassinated is like, what's the point, if he's Cylon. And if his heart stopped, and I can't remember if it did or not, wouldn't he have downloaded instead of coming back?
                      His heart stopped twice, but that may not constitute the "death" required to prompt a download. My guess would be that would require a state of imminent brain death.....but I don't think Adama senior is a Cylon either

                      Spoiler:
                      "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. Should see the light that we get here when the sun comes from behind those mountains! It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
                      ---Bill Adama

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Legionnaire View Post
                        Thats something I've always had trouble understanding. I mean, how old is Adama and Tigh? If there was 50 years between the two wars and these men were fighting in the first war, they'd be in their 70s or something by now. Just doesnt seem to me like at their current age that Adama and Tigh could have been in the first war.
                        40 years between the two wars, and Adama is generally acknowledged to be around 60 at the time of the second war (which would make him around 62 now).

                        Spoiler:
                        "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. Should see the light that we get here when the sun comes from behind those mountains! It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
                        ---Bill Adama

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Skydiver View Post
                          thinkaobut this when/if athena dies and resurrects...three knows that hera is alive. knows that adama and roslyn lied to athena.

                          imagine the hate and betrayal when Athena learns that her whole trust that she placed in Adama is misplaced

                          methinks she's gonna be a weeee bit ticked off
                          That sounds like a pretty good reason to kill her off! I really want to see Hera back with Athena soon. I want edgy angry Athena back! The Adama/Athena friendship thing is nice but he totally betrayed her and she needs to know about it.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Gate gal View Post
                            That sounds like a pretty good reason to kill her off! I really want to see Hera back with Athena soon. I want edgy angry Athena back! The Adama/Athena friendship thing is nice but he totally betrayed her and she needs to know about it.
                            Highly unlikely that Adama knows Hera/Isis is alive.....therefore no betrayal.

                            Spoiler:
                            "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. Should see the light that we get here when the sun comes from behind those mountains! It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
                            ---Bill Adama

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Back40 View Post
                              40 years between the two wars, and Adama is generally acknowledged to be around 60 at the time of the second war (which would make him around 62 now).
                              Ah ok, forty years makes much more sense. Thanks.
                              "Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" - Tom Zarek

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Legionnaire View Post
                                Ah ok, forty years makes much more sense. Thanks.
                                You're welcome!

                                Spoiler:
                                "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. Should see the light that we get here when the sun comes from behind those mountains! It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
                                ---Bill Adama

                                Comment

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